anyone else tired of the MoP raid designs?

[bufferunderrun]

today classes and specs are polished to a point that any fight with 2 mechanics will be just a loot pinata, or there is someone that want to go back at 1 spec half viable era? honestly wanna see all the qq from pala/druid/shaman being returned to the vanilla era.

[Deleted]

So I can't express my opinion on his opinion without being called a hypocrite? Get over yourself.

You were called a hypocrite because you criticised someone for having an opinion that differed from your own. Then you criticised some for not realising the peoples opinions can differ. You therefore contradicted yourself in the same thread on the same day. Bravo.

[MoanaLisa]

Raiding in WoW is moving to Raid Finder much like dungeon running in WoW moved to the Dungeon Finder.

I had thought this was perfectly obvious. I would think it's impossible to consider raiding participation as being either up or down significantly without making some sort of adjustment for LFR. People are obviously migrating to it much as people migrated to more convenient raid sizes when they were roughly equalized for reward.

The attraction of LFR having its own progression path through the expansion that allows everyone that can meet the gear requirements to do at least a version of 'BC-style progression raiding' would be an obvious bonus. Today, you can get to 90, get to 463 and start at T14 with the clear expectation that you actually will see T15 at some point.

The other point which I thought was obvious was that in the raiding community, there was a lot of chatter about wanting more difficult raids.

So here we are: Three tiers of difficulty; easy, medium and hard. It would make sense that now that LFR is available the difficulty for normal would be a shifted a bit towards more difficulty. It no longer really functions as entry-level for many people.

[Mawnix]

oh stop with the mindless hate, bosses in DS actually had new and memorable mechanics. People don't hate that raid for lack of interesting fights, but because it was nerfed really fast and we had to do it way way to long.
Only fight that was underwhelming was sadly Deathwing himself, (Spine and Madness), thats the fight that should be most epic, but we ended up killing his nails and some adds.
Rest of the raid was good imo.

You do realize his post literally translates into "I don't agree with the OP and I like Blizzard's decisions", right?

DS is a highly controversial raid. I have no idea why you are so hostile just because he didn't enjoy it.

[Deleted]

Dragon Soul was not shitty for me because of the amount of time it took or the nerfs. It was shitty for me because not one new mechanic was introduced and every boss was completely forgettable, .

oh really ? how manny times before did you bounce the ball like on Zon'ozz? how many times did you had a fight with random color oozes, that you could tailor encounter like on Yor'sahj? How many times before did you have that extra button on the screen like on Ultraxion? how many times do you have something like lighting conducts on Haggara?

I'm not saying all of this is super cool and mind blowing, but you can't fall on other side of a scale too, and say there was nothing new with straight face.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 11:52 PM ----------

You do realize his post literally translates into "I don't agree with the OP and I like Blizzard's decisions", right?

DS is a highly controversial raid. I have no idea why you are so hostile just because he didn't enjoy it.

I am hostile because I don't like exaggeration and attitude like the guys I quoted. He said if someone liked DS he's not human, wtf ?

[Ryanlol]

I'm not saying all of this is super cool and mind blowing, but you can't fall on other side of a scale too, and say there was nothing new with straight face.

I can say it with a straight face, because I believe it to be true and because I'm stating it as an opinion, not as a fact. Dragon Soul was so unoriginal that I felt physically sick while raiding it, but stuck on for my guild (and I'm glad I did, because MoP raids are fantastic.)

[Airwaves]

I do have to agree with the OP at some points. I realy don't think its a bunch of mechanics that are the problem. FOR ME! it was not that there were alot of mechanics its that they are mostly (5.1 raids) reused mechanics they have used of fights years past. I raided for 6 years and when you are doing a boss and its does something a boss did 4 years ago it gets rather boring. The last time I had ALOT of fun was heroic rag.

Now i can't talk for TOT since i have only realy done the first boss (Got to 10% and wiped so they were not locked) and will not clear it until my guild does alt runs since i no longer raid. Now hopefully TOT isn't in the same boat at 5.1.

[Granyala]

I do not mind having to learn complex multi phase fights but I really do not enter a raid instance to spend any time learning how to walk across platforms with wind trying to blow me off while mobs with blue flood lights that knock you about if you are hit cycle up and down and around you while killing trash between bosses that is just plain tuned silly.

Agreed. That Trash is absurd.

I found the first two bosses pretty good though. Esp Horridon, I like it if the first pulls just end in utter chaos.

He said if someone liked DS he's not human, wtf ?

Well, you're not human. You're Draenei! :<

Dragon souls ARTWORK was lame, and I mean "ToC lame"™.
Mechanics were fun. Well... except Spine.... brr....

[Jaq]

The raid design team seems to be mistaking "complicated" for "complex." Rather than make fights where the mechanics have a certain level of complexity to them, which can be done with fewer mechanics, Blizzard has decided that every fight has to have 10-12 separate mechanics, an add wave, and 90% of the ground will kill you. And that's phase one. The roadblock fight for a lot of casual guilds was Elegon, which had an add, managing your debuff stacks, killing power sparks, and killing columns and the adds that spawned, and a phase 3 burn. Less was more there. The fights in ToT are designed as if they watched Spirit Kings and said "hey, imagine if Spirit Kings was a fight where you faced all four bosses abilities constantly, and the floor randomly exploded every 30 seconds while Flanking Orders had to be killed!"

Someone needs to get dear old Ion off the caffeine.

[Ielenia]

complexity for complexity sake?

what happened to challenging but still fun?
...
just seems super lazy to me

So... complexity is lazy? Buh...?

Ok, you say 'complexity for complexity sake' is bad, but you also want 'challenging but still fun'. There are only two ways to make an encounter a challenge: by making it more complex, or by making it a 'patchwerk' gear check. 'Patchwerk Gear check' fights are not fun. It's just not fun when you and your group know a fight inside and out, strategy perfectly memorized and executed, but still fail because your raid members aren't geared enough.

Now, complex fights... those are, in my opinon, the most engaging and entertaining fights. Why? Because I gotta keep focused on the fights, I gotta learn the bosses' strategies. I gotta know when to swing my weapon, and when the get the hell of the way! It keeps me engaged. Boring things are not fun.

Blizzard makes the fights more 'complex' to keep their playerbase engaged. Why? Because the average raider is getting smarter. So much so that old raid mechanics are not enough, anymore. So, to keep them interested, to keep them challenged, they need to 'up the ante' and make the fights more complex. Because simply making fights a gear check is simply not fun nor engaging.

[Hexme]

The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting un interesting enemies. The Mogu are so poorly implemented I don't care about their back story or them in general. Take a look back at vanilla WoW we were fighting to stop Ragnaros,Nef (Ony and the black dragon flight) and the old god C'Thun. BC we were fighting to stop Illidan and the Burning Legion. Wotlk we were fighting to stop Arthas/the scourge, stop yog and stop the titans from destroying Azeroth. Cata we were fighting to stop Deathwing and Rag (again) on destroying Azeroth. Now in MoP what were fighting some ancient creatures that are reskinned draenei's with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry?

[Mawnix]

The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting un interesting enemies. The Mogu are so poorly implemented I don't care about their back story or them in general. Take a look back at vanilla WoW we were fighting to stop Ragnaros,Nef (Ony and the black dragon flight) and the old god C'Thun. BC we were fighting to stop Illidan and the Burning Legion. Wotlk we were fighting to stop Arthas/the scourge, stop yog and stop the titans from destroying Azeroth. Cata we were fighting to stop Deathwing and Rag (again) on destroying Azeroth. Now in MoP what were fighting some ancient creatures that are reskinned draenei's with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry?

If you're going to make such an argument, and don't care about the Mogu's backstory, there's no point in explaining it or arguing it with you is there?

[Ielenia]

The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting un interesting enemies. The Mogu are so poorly implemented I don't care about their back story or them in general. Take a look back at vanilla WoW we were fighting to stop Ragnaros,Nef (Ony and the black dragon flight) and the old god C'Thun. BC we were fighting to stop Illidan and the Burning Legion. Wotlk we were fighting to stop Arthas/the scourge, stop yog and stop the titans from destroying Azeroth. Cata we were fighting to stop Deathwing and Rag (again) on destroying Azeroth. Now in MoP what were fighting some ancient creatures that are reskinned draenei's with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry?

Funny how you forgot to mention all the other 'uninteresting' bosses from Vanilla, BC, Wrath and Cataclysm. Also, let me fix your first sentence:

The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting enemies that are not interesting to me.

Also, calling the Mogu 'reskinned Draenei' is a stupid argument. Models have been re-used since the beginning of WoW. Broken use Tauren models, to cite one example. And it seems I need to fix another broken sentence of yours:

with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry to me

With those sentences properly fixed, I say this. Stop saying lies and spewing opinions as fact. I, for one, find the Mogu interesting. It's not the game's fault you simply cannot bring yourself to care.

[grexly75]

The thing about MoP that now one cares about is the fact we're fighting un interesting enemies. The Mogu are so poorly implemented I don't care about their back story or them in general. Take a look back at vanilla WoW we were fighting to stop Ragnaros,Nef (Ony and the black dragon flight) and the old god C'Thun. BC we were fighting to stop Illidan and the Burning Legion. Wotlk we were fighting to stop Arthas/the scourge, stop yog and stop the titans from destroying Azeroth. Cata we were fighting to stop Deathwing and Rag (again) on destroying Azeroth. Now in MoP what were fighting some ancient creatures that are reskinned draenei's with a back story that's exciting as watching paint dry?

From reading all that and so on you might want to play something else if you find WoW boring and I think you need the removed those rose tinted glasses..

[Hexme]

From reading all that and so on you might want to play something else if you find WoW boring and I think you need the removed those rose tinted glasses..

Sorry but if you think WoW is perfect and has no flaws, you're the one that needs to remove the rose tinted glasses fanboy.

[grexly75]

Sorry but if you think WoW is perfect and has no flaws, you're the one that needs to remove the rose tinted glasses fanboy.

lol lamest reply ever at least I don't care about past expansions as much as you seem too.. And did I say that WoW has no flaws no I didn't say anything like that so stop putting words in my mouth. WoW has quite a few flaws and when I find one I tell Blizz, if they fix it all well and good if they don't then not much one can do until others complain about the same thing.

[link4117]

I've been raiding since Vanilla. I'll agree they use some old mechanics, but these days it's usually in combination with other things to make it "new". So yes, it can be said it is complexity for complexity sake, but it's really just so players don't get bored or down it super easy after reading a guide. With guides everywhere, how do you make a raid hard? You can't do it by having players figure out the mechanics like we used to have to. Probably the best way is to do what Blizz is doing; making the mechanics complex and making you actually pay attention.

And I'll freely admit I'm bored to tears of raiding already this expansion, but not because of the lack of a neat environment, interesting boss fights, or under/overtuned content, but because I've been playing since Vanilla. It always amazes me how many people won't admit that it isn't Blizz's fault they are bored, but at least part of it is because they have been playing the same game for years on end. The game is the most polished it has ever been. PvE has a variety of difficulties for players, and, despite all the whining, PvP is the most balanced it ever has been. Note I didn't say completely balanced, because it never will be, but it's not the total shit storm people make it out to be.

[Herecius]

I have tremendously enjoyed almost every fight so far this tier on normal, even though the majority of them have been hilariously easy (1-shot or 2-shot). But even the easy ones still managed to be great fun. I think the only fight I have not liked much so far would be Primordius because it's overly simplistic. Jin'Rokh was super simple too of course, but it's kinda nice to have the very first boss be a RARHAJRHJHR PATCHWERK NUMBERZ fight.

[xanzul]

complexity for complexity sake?

what happened to challenging but still fun?

i raided every expansion in competitive guilds spanning 40 mans, to heroic 10 man... and for some reason this expansion... these raid designs really bother me. the only way i can describe the raid design is with a hipsterish/condescending attitude.

i remember a fight as simple as heigan with the safety dance... the fight had like 2 mechanics, was challenging enough but still FUN... what happened to that design? clever mechanics... not just 8-10 random things thrown on the floor/adds...

just seems super lazy to me

Anyone else tired of people constantly complaining about EVERYTHING Blizzard does?

[Mawnix]

Sorry but if you think WoW is perfect and has no flaws, you're the one that needs to remove the rose tinted glasses fanboy.

In no way shape nor form did the person you're quoting state the game is perfect. Read instead of trying to incite an argument or egg someone on, sir.

They were simply giving you a response apparently you didn't agree with nor like.