5.2 Class Review..Rogue

[Angryst]

We had a lot of work to do on the Rogue talent tree, probably the most of any class.

/boggle...

I understand we're a tough bunch to please, but seriously.

[D3athsting]

Oh yeah they macroed ss with openers, changed the multiplier for Assassin's resolve, vitality and SV, that's a lot of work!!

[Jerycho]

I was waiting for our class review because I knew it would be a laugh. They didn't disappoint.

[Carni]

They didn't seem to do that much work however... I really like Cloak and Dagger, it has a large amount of pros, and a moderate con of by being unusable while not in stealth. Its great with subterfuge, and really seems good for shadow dance though because my rogue is still leveling my level of testing is very limited.

[Evi1Toad]

I think this is true. We had the most work done in our talent trees in 5.2... which still adds up to least work overall. I'm keeping my hopes up for an overhaul in 6.0.

[Koji2k11]

wow adding 2 new skills based on existing mechanics is so much work they have done GC should be a comedian by now since everytime he does something to rogues its all a big joke

[ej33t]

To call it a class review is pathetic. I could make a more interesting, less overpowered and more balanced class in a week.

[macdisciple]

To call it a class review is pathetic. I could make a more interesting, less overpowered and more balanced class in a week.

Would love to hear your ideas.

Go...

[rogueMatthias]

So, nothing major different I've found PVP and PVE..

Though marked for death and the improved Burst of Speed make questing much easier. Also with Prep back and the changes to Smoke Bomb it's a lot easier (ie Possible) to actually Solo rares now.

I still think Shuriken toss should have been baseline too imo, think rogues should have SOME range as default.

[Evi1Toad]

I still think Shuriken toss should have been baseline too imo, think rogues should have SOME range as default.

If anything should be baseline (other than the abilities that we had baseline pre-5.0) it should be anticipation. At least a version like the pally's, where we could store extra but we couldnt do two full fledged finishers in a row.

[Sealed]

The class reviews are interesting, in that the dev team communicates on their decisions and on the approach they took to the 5.2 changes. The patchnotes tell us what they did, now they tell us why they did it.

On rogues specifically, I think they stated the problems they wanted to tackle well and did a fairly good job at addressing them. The review is articulate and to the point. You can object to their design philosophy (the "no major overhaul mid-expansion" bit, for instance) but I doubt you can objectively and convincingly argue that they botched 5.2 or did nothing for the class.

That being said, naturally, there is no pleasing the armchair game designers and the people who play the wrong class/game. (Hint: when you say "If I were in charge, I'd do everything differently", there's probably another system out there that does everything differently and might be more suited to your tastes. Just saying.)

To call it a class review is pathetic. I could make a more interesting, less overpowered and more balanced class in a week.

Where can I find your game then ?

[ej33t]

You quote me like you'd seriously expect me to sit down and redesign the Rogue class. I'm not doing their job for them. I don't have the time nowadays. I've been playing Rogue since the Beta and over the years I've seen many suggestions on how to redesign the class. As you can imagine most haven't been well throughout, like devastating nerfs or overzealous buffs. However occasionally I'll read suggestions that have merit, where they've justified their changes by looking at the rippling effect it would have to other classes and stated facts not feelings. It's these suggestions that make me angry and sad.

Angry because I know Blizzard have their own unwavering vision for how rogues should be and I don't share their opinion, and sad because obviously the people posting these suggestions are passionate about the game and I know they will be completely ignored.

[SynergyDarkstar]

We had a lot of work to do on the Rogue talent tree, probably the most of any class.

/boggle...

I understand we're a tough bunch to please, but seriously.

Optimistic take on that statement - They DID have a lot of work to do, most likely the most of any class! However, that doesn't say anything about the current state. It could mean that they recognize how much work they have to fix the talent tree, but were only able to accomplish a fraction for 5.2! Good things could be in store for 6.0!

Pessimistic take on that statement - They had a lot of work to do, fortunately all that work is done now and rogues are fine. Working as intended.

[Coldkil]

I really think this ime even devs don't know what to do/say.

They have recognized that the class has a lot of room for improvement, but also it would be a too drastic change that cannot be done mid-expansion.

SInce warlocks have gone through a similar path, my hopes are into 6.0

[eijin]

I really think this ime even devs don't know what to do/say.

They have recognized that the class has a lot of room for improvement, but also it would be a too drastic change that cannot be done mid-expansion.

SInce warlocks have gone through a similar path, my hopes are into 6.0

this is what we expected in 5.0. "thats it?" oh they arent finished yet! still arent done! they still have time! oh i guess that really was it..

[Deleted]

Rogue best class in 5.2 pve and pvp <3

[Kezuma]

Rogue best class in 5.2 pve and pvp <3

not sure if troll or dead serious but either way i wish i could agree with u but sadly i cant my friend

[mongoose6]

As much crap as I've talked about versatility, I actually kinda want it back for Horridon. MFD is nice for that fight, but with the amount of target switching I do before the add i'm currently engaged dies....

Kinda the same way with the killing spree glyph, I was all about it returning you to the spot you started until they actually gave that ability to us through a glyph, now I never use that glyph because it gets me killed.

I guess my point is, class design and tweeks have to be difficult as all hell. I'm just happy they laid everything out the way they did.

[Verain]

As much crap as I've talked about versatility, I actually kinda want it back for Horridon. MFD is nice for that fight, but with the amount of target switching I do before the add i'm currently engaged dies....

Good grief, are you nuts? MfD is perfect for horridon. A bunch of low health adds, a bunch of adds that everyone is burning- that talent makes at least a hundred combo points over the course of that fight. It's domination. Versatility would preserve at most 20, and that's being wildly generous. If Versatility was still in place over MfD, I would run anticipation. A crimson tempest lets you walk combo points to your new target anyway. Versatility was a bad talent. Marked for death is a masterwork talent.


The devs DID do the most work on our talent tree. This is because it was pretty shit before.

Stealth Tier- Nerfing shadow focus a little is fine. It's still a great talent. Subterfuge will have a place in pvp, and nightstalker is so good for questing now that it kind of feels like cheating (must be combined with burst)

Mobility Tier- I'll give you my opinion on Cloak+Dagger once arenas are running again. Shadowstep is decent as normal, and while I stand by everything I said about Burst of Speed likely only being chosen versus melee comps- this talent is addictive, fun, and LUDICROUS while questing. With Burst of Speed and Nightstalker my stealthed speed is very similar to that of an epic mount. It is amazingly fun, and when combined with MfD makes questing the simplest it has ever been on my rogue. Suddenly, rogues have bouncy resources and fast gap closing much like other classes. Anyone who thinks grinding on a rogue is a pain should try these three talent choices- you will find yourself shocked at how modern your rogue feels.

Final Tier- Anticipation remains the winner for sustained pve for at least combat and mutilate, and probably sub. Shuriken Throw is a whole new world, allowing you to keep dps active on ranged targets while kited, making it a virtual mobility talent, and honestly pretty goddamned amazing. Marked For Death is simply AMAZING- this talent should be taken for dungeons, for questing, for leveling. It has a place in pvp burst comps, but I think you'll mostly want shuriken throw. This really shores up a weak spot in the rogue arsenal- the thing where rogues suck at everything that isn't a single target fight where you stare at the boss's ankle for 5 minutes while trying to look dignified, like some Victorian gentleman seeing his first ladyankle and having to hide his bulge. Instead you can flit from mob to mob powering 5 point envenoms or eviscerates into dumb trash with every global. It doesn't help in large sustained aoe, but in large sustained aoe all rogue specs have something smart to do, and have since lich king era.

Marked for Death makes rogues into a real class, not just one that has a plan for arenas, a plan for soloing dudes, and a plan for raid dps. It's the biggest buff in memory to the parts of the game you don't see much balance emphasis on, which are the parts rogues have been frustrating at.

[mongoose6]

Meh, you probably get alot more use out of it than I. Our guild is fairly low geared for this encounter and I'm assigned to switching to and interrupting targets. Stuff just isnt dying quickly for us. I'm using MFD for that fight right meow and can see its value increasing as our gear goes up and my original MFD target die's faster.