No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Deleted]

Some of the MoP dungeons were ok, some could've been better. One thing that bothers me is that there are so few of them. TBC and WotLK had lots of them. But it's mostly the ICC and Hour of Twilight dungeons that stood out for me. Maybe because ICC, the Lich King, Deathwing, War of the Ancients and the dragonflights were so heavy with lore.

I did enjoy my first run in those, but after that I couldn't be bothered because I had already experienced their lore and again, I can't be arsed with the people you group up with in there.

[Leonard McCoy]

First off, Ghostcrawler doesn't have nearly the kind of power you seem to make him out to have... He's one out of many designers and his focus is on working with the interface, he's the lead systems designer.

Secondly, the heroic dungeons rewards gear, justice points, valor points, and now even reputation to a degree. I really can't understand how that is not enough for you? No, I would still not be arsed to run LFD even with better rewards, it's not about that, it's that they are all the same zerg fests were you can pretty much /afk the whole time just spamming aoe spells while watching a movie on your other screen (speaking from experience). I have even tanked dungeons while barely even paying attention with full success, not a single wipe or anything, just charge + thunderclap and you can pretty much go afk...

How is that fun gameplay? I find them extremely tedious, and will avoid setting my foot in any of them for the rest of the expansion.

I don't care WHOS decision it was. Whoever made this decision deserves to be fucking FIRED.

Let's go over your list of rewards. The GEAR as a reward is exhausted in a matter of DAYS. Long term the gear isn't sufficient motivation to keep running LFD. Justice points are worthless. Valor is likewise worthless without the Rep. It's also easily aquired from all kinds of other places. The rep gain is limited to one a day, again not long term enough. It isn't enough because DUNGEONS HAVE ALMOST ALWAYS REWARDED MORE. In fact that's the reason you can't be arsed to do them. THEIRS NOT ENOUGH FUCKING REWARD BEHIND THEM otherwise you'd find yourself "arsed" to do them. I know you don't understand because you like this daily crap and if the dungeons rewarded more then all of a sudden your fucking daily quest bullshit would stop being "Compelling".

It is VASTLY MORE FUN THAN ANYTHING ELSE BEING OFFERED IN THE GAME CURRENTLY. You find it tedious. Awesome. I find daily quests tedious. Now apparently the developers have engaged your wishes to the max and love you and will shower you with you content you like. Me and my friends get a big fuck you. Fantastic.

[Trassk]

Slacking, soo slacking.

Honestly, it doesn't take anything to do just one additional dungeon, just something to break up the monotony.

[Leonard McCoy]

Just so you know, the quest team, the dungeons & raid team, the encounter team, and the class design teams are all, uh... different teams.

The quest team is the one that does all of the quests, including the daily quests.

The dungeon & raid team actually designs the environments for the dungeons and raids (IE level design), working with the encounter team to populate them with bosses and trash.

Ghostcrawler is the lead class designer. He works on stuff like class abilities and talents.

I don't honestly care whos decision it was. GC gets the brunt of "they should be fired" complaints so that's why I used his name. He's got the most familiarity. Whoevers decision it was needs to fucking canned. Asap.

[Deatheryn]

Scenarios are useless imo.

This^ I haven't even ran half of the ones available because they offer next to no reward for time spent nor do I really care about the lore. Five mans at least give you a decent chance to fill gear slots w/ some kind of upgrade. Not to mention you still get to decide whether or not you want/need an item by rolling, rather than having the game do it all for you.

Pretty soon, if things continue on their current course, our computers are gonna play WoW for us we just watch it and click "Choose your Adventure" dialog options.

[Reyzzz]

It means that the people I spent years playing this game with won't be coming back and neither will I.

Good, people like you who can't move on is all that is wrong with WoW.

Now we just need to get them leave mmo-champion...

[Deleted]

I don't care WHOS decision it was. Whoever made this decision deserves to be fucking FIRED.

Let's go over your list of rewards. The GEAR as a reward is exhausted in a matter of DAYS. Long term the gear isn't sufficient motivation to keep running LFD. Justice points are worthless. Valor is likewise worthless without the Rep. It's also easily aquired from all kinds of other places. The rep gain is limited to one a day, again not long term enough. It isn't enough because DUNGEONS HAVE ALMOST ALWAYS REWARDED MORE. In fact that's the reason you can't be arsed to do them. THEIRS NOT ENOUGH FUCKING REWARD BEHIND THEM otherwise you'd find yourself "arsed" to do them. I know you don't understand because you like this daily crap and if the dungeons rewarded more then all of a sudden your fucking daily quest bullshit would stop being "Compelling".

It is VASTLY MORE FUN THAN ANYTHING ELSE BEING OFFERED IN THE GAME CURRENTLY. You find it tedious. Awesome. I find daily quests tedious. Now apparently the developers have engaged your wishes to the max and love you and will shoer you with you content you like. Me and my friends get a big fuck you. Fantastic.

Might have something to do with that more people prefer to run content such as daily quests over having to rely on a queue to get grouped with people you don't even want to be grouped with? A typical LFD group is all flaming each other about everything, no sense of team play or anything anyways (just look at the LFR groups). A typical dungeon is all about pulling everything you see and aoe'ing it down.

In daily quests you can run it exactly whenever you want, without having to rely on people the game throws at you, on top of this you can still run them with friends to get some social interaction from it as well.

As an extra plus, with daily quests I run into Alliance which causes fights to break out, I get my friends, they get theirs. A war breaks out, so much more fun than queuing up for dungeons over and over.

[Deleted]

It seems that they're not releasing any dungeons because they don't want them to drop items of better item level than LFR. But how are scenarios any different? They only drop 463/450 items, so they're not any better for raid-geared players to run more than one time. Why not just take those scenarios and make them 5-man instances even if they still only drop 463 items, because lets face it, as group content, dungeons are vastly superior. At least it would add some variety to the current pool of dungeons that consists of 9 instances.

The new scenario technology is great, don't get me wrong, but I think they don't serve their purpose that well as end-game content. They'd be far better as leveling content and supporting questing and storytelling, like the few solo scenarios we got in 5.2. Blizzard should realize that.

[rhorle]

Scenarios are much better at storytelling, as are regular quests.

That is only because most 5-mans are not designed with story in mind. Scenarios are designed with story or "fun" in mind. ICC 5-mans had plenty of story. A few others have as well like the troll one in Wotlk that introduces the zones bad guy who you helped.

[Leonard McCoy]

Might have something to do with that more people prefer to run content such as daily quests over having to rely on a queue to get grouped with people you don't even want to be grouped with? A typical LFD group is all flaming each other about everything, no sense of team play or anything anyways (just look at the LFR groups). A typical dungeon is all about pulling everything you see and aoe'ing it down.

In daily quests you can run it exactly whenever you want, without having to rely on people the game throws at you, on top of this you can still run them with friends to get some social interaction from it as well.

No that's not a typical LFD group. That's YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH LFD. One does not equate the other. I don't rely on being grouped with people I don't want to be grouped with. YOU DO. I have friends. Even if what your saying is somehow magically true for everybody playing the fucking game then their gonna nede to get rid of LFR to. Because I've HAD WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE ASSHOLES in lfr then in lfd. Yet their still gonna keep making raid content. Now why do people prefer daily content? BECAUSE IT"S MORE FUCKING REWARDING. People naturally prefer whatever has the most reward. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NATURE OF THE CONTENT and everything to do with reward. I mean you don't even proof that people favor one over the other but even still if BLizzard supported dugneons with more rewards THEYD BE THE PREFERED CONTENT>

Dungeons have lots of fucking benfits to them. Like running dungoens isn't dictated by the daily quest vendor. I can run as many dungeons or as little in a day as I like AND NEVER FEEL LIKE I LOST OUT BECAUSE I MISSED A DAY. Dungeons are VASTLY more flexible.

This decision drives me insane. It's so stupid. It's so utterly ignorant. And the worst part is I miss the group I used to run these dungeons with. We weren't enough for a raid but we were good players and we had fun in those dungeons. Even in the harder cataclysm ones. Now Blizzard has said fuck you, were not supporting your playstyle. They will hear a choice word or two from me before my sub runs out you can rest assured.

[Kathranis]

Honestly, it doesn't take anything to do just one additional dungeon...

Well, the dungeons & raid team has to design the environment, including modeling the architecture. The quest team has to come up with a way to integrate it into the story, at least minimally. The art team has to design props to decorate it with, and new enemy models to populate it (because rehashing old ones is bad). All of that requires work from the concept artists, naturally. The encounter team has to design the boss fights and tune the mechanics, and create abilities and all of that stuff. The systems team has to design the items that'll be dropped. They have to compose music for it, and do foley for sound effects, and record voice acting which will probably involve hiring actors through SAG, as they have been doing for this expansion. And then they have their internal QA team test it, and then players on the PTR test it, and go through bug fixing and tuning and so forth and so on. Then the web team has to promote it, and maybe even the DVD and video production department would incorporate it into a patch trailer.

"Honestly," it's something that probably comes down to thousands of man hours by numerous people in several different departments, and I would guess tens of thousands of dollars, once you factor in costs and employee wages of everyone involved from start to finish over the couple of months it takes to develop and fully implement.

So, yeah, pretty much no work at all.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Thanks. Now I know, that I won't resub in this xpack.

I'm not for the "xxxx happened? Damn, then i won't resub!" as i still play, but there's truth in your words.
I like dungeons, i love doing dungeon meta achievements. I like that, deeper into the expansion, they drop epic quality gear. I enjoy capping valor by doing a daily heroic every day. Now more than ever with the championing stuff.

That's why i feel that sticking to those we had at release is lazy work on Blizzard's part.
Scenarios can burn for me. They can be soloed with a little work, and when a tank or healer joins the queue they take longer than heroics, with lower rewards.

[Granyala]

Thats sad to hear. I really liked the Twilight instances, especially the second one with Illidan & Tyrande.
The ICC-5mans were also pretty cool.
I also liked the fact that you could circumvent the f**** boring Valor grind and get at least decent gear for your alts.

Guess all my alts will stay 85 then, because I have absolutely 0 interest in grinding that stupid Valor.

Scenarios are the dumbest "long time content" they ever added. They only give half the valor and take double the time.... sheesh...

A typical LFD group is all flaming each other about everything, no sense of team play or anything anyways (just look at the LFR groups).

Wrong.
A typical LFD group doesn't speak one word besides "Hi". Usually I'm the only raid geared person, so I basically do the damage myself, I just need that tank & healer to be able to do it. The other DPS, they just shut it and are happy that they are carried w/o me noticing them.

[Deleted]

It seems that they're not releasing any dungeons because they don't want them to drop items of better item level than LFR. But how are scenarios any different? They only drop 463/450 items, so they're not any better for raid-geared players to run more than one time. Why not just take those scenarios and make them 5-man instances even if they still only drop 463 items, because lets face it, as group content, dungeons are vastly superior. At least it would add some variety to the current pool of dungeons that consists of 9 instances.

The new scenario technology is great, don't get me wrong, but I think they don't serve their purpose that well as end-game content. They'd be far better as leveling content and supporting questing and storytelling, like the few solo scenarios we got in 5.2. Blizzard should realize that.

I especially agree on the bold part, considering while leveling you run into NPC's who give you Scenario quests, there should have been pre 90 versions of them. As for creating 5 man versions of them, I wouldn't mind but I wouldn't run them either.

I still want them as 90 versions though as they are far superior to get 50 extra valor per day over running a dungeon run. (In my opinion.)

[Alvito]

The only 5 mans they have added after a expansion launched that were decent or fun was MgT which at a point was only run to quickly gear alts or rep grind. The ICC 5 mans were ok and had some decent lore tied to them. All of the others were just junk though. While I would like more 5 mans and some 5 mans with a little more challenge beside challenge modes which comes down to taking every short cut you can and pulling mobs in the best order or path. Since we have had things like the ToC 5 man ZA/ZG and the crap DS ones I don't know if they could make a good 5 man worth doing mid expansion again.

[Deleted]

That is only because most 5-mans are not designed with story in mind. Scenarios are designed with story or "fun" in mind. ICC 5-mans had plenty of story. A few others have as well like the troll one in Wotlk that introduces the zones bad guy who you helped.

No both are designed with story in mind, it's just that in dungeons it's much more expansive. The "story" in most scenarios is meaningless. What is the backstory of that Panda girl in "A Brewing Storm"? Where exactly is that "Crypt of Kings" or what it's called. Scenarios are a nice thing. But the story in Temple of the Jade Serpent is much more interesting than in a scenario where you save some village from Yaungols. Scenarios should not be seen as a replacement for dungeons.

[Deleted]

Thats sad to hear. I really liked the Twilight instances, especially the second one with Illidan & Tyrande.
The ICC-5mans were also pretty cool.
I also liked the fact that you could circumvent the f**** boring Valor grind and get at least decent gear for your alts.

Guess all my alts will stay 85 then, because I have absolutely 0 interest in grinding that stupid Valor.

Scenarios are the dumbest "long time content" they ever added. They only give half the valor and take double the time.... sheesh...

I don't know how you run your scenarios, but in my experience a scenario usually takes tops 5 minutes, whilst a dungeon takes 10-15-20.

Some scenarios are a bit slow yes, like the one where you defend a village, or collect beer, I don't like either of those. But the vol'jin one, and especially the one where you defend the Horde base in that forest (I suck at names...), takes no time at all. Those are also the most common to get into.

[Alvito]

I can't say I really care for more 5mans unless its a choice between more 5mans and more scenarios. Scenarios are useless imo.

Also way too quick and easy. I am sure even average players of any class could solo them if they tried. When they are that damn simple what is the point.

[Deleted]

they may always come with 5.3 (hopefully), 5.4 will be a raid patch like this one

[Armourboy]

Doesn't surprise me, at some point 5 mans went from being a meaningful part of the entire game to just being something you knock off for some quick reward. Basically I think it takes them longer to make, so they have been axed for really boring Scenario's ( which would be better served being leveling content) and more Dailies.

I miss the days when even in later Tiers 5 mans were useful. Things like 45 minute Baron runs and the old Tier .5 quest lines really brought alot of fun into the old 5 mans. Not to mention they were the set up to the Raids you would be doing. If its one thing that I hate about LFD is that it killed off the nice challenge and story of 5 mans. They still serve a function, but not a very interesting one.

Really miss the number and size of the old TBC 5 mans especially.