No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Leonard McCoy]

1 million - 400k isn't a net loss.

It's sill a net loss compared to it's peak. It will continue to bleed. They gained a million and lost almost half of it just as fast as they gained it. mists is working swell. At this rate they'll have lost more than cataclysm and I hope they lose millions for this shabby subpar half assed grindy piece of crap.

[Jtbrig7390]

1 million - 400k isn't a net loss.

400k is a net lost when MOP didn't sell as many copy's as cata did and before the 1million gain there was a 3 million lost.


But feel free to forget that 600 people got layed off and a few GM"S along with those before cata ended.

[Arganaut]

I'm with angry. I can't be arsed with scenarios following the first run, and once LFR is no longer relevant I can't be arsed with that either. Even if the current dungeons are Zerg fests it fits with my play time and I certainly prefer them to dailies or scenarios. I thought Blizzard was trying to encourage more multi-player play? The late dungeons in both Wrath and Cata, I thought were awesome. Maybe this is just a pre-curser for rehashed older content that GC hinted will be the next big feature.

[fengosa]

so they got 1million subs then turned around and lost 400k subs "maybe more now"

so that means that they neted 600k subs since the release of MOP and your proud of this....the game use to have 12million subs and is now down to 9.6million and good chance its lower since almost all AP's have ended.

I don't see anything to be proud at this time with wow.

also that report was right at the end of Cata/Start of MOP now we are nearing the middle of MOP's life and there has yet to be a sub gain....


Got got 1 million subs and by the time its 2nd set of raids came out nearly lost half of the subs they got....ya clearly things are going smooth.

This reminds of the SNL sketch where Norm McDonald interviews one of the Dallas Cowboys after winning the SB and asks them if they're disappointed that they didn't cover the spread. Only 9.6 million? Still the top MMO and the quality in MoP has been great so I'm sure Blizzard is plenty proud of their game right now despite what some people on the Internet think.

[Eec003]

After gaining 1 million. Funny you didnt mention that part, no?

Find me an example of when a new game/expac comes out, player base doesn't rise...

[Leonard McCoy]

This reminds of the SNL sketch where Norm McDonald interviews one of the Dallas Cowboys after winning the SB and asks them if they're disappointed that they didn't cover the spread. Only 9.6 million? Still the top MMO and the quality in MoP has been great so I'm sure Blizzard is plenty proud of their game right now despite what some people on the Internet think.

The quality HASN'T been great and I really don't give a fuck to compare it to other mmos. What possible purpose does that serve other than to inflate your opinion of how good wow is? Judge it on it's own fucking merits not relative to everything else. The gaming is bleeding subs and MISTS HASN'T STOPPED THE FUCKING BLEED. It will continue to bleed. Because the developers can't get it through their thick fucking skulls. Gating content and adding grinds ISN'T MORE CONTENT in fact it just makes existing content BORING AS FUCK. YOu wanna talk about other mmos and games? IN A UNIVERSE WITH SO MANY OTHER FREE OPTIONS they have to provide a reason for me to pay 15 bucks a month. GIVING ME GRINDS AND ASKING ME TO SPEND A MONTH DOING OLD CONTENT isn't a good enough fucking reason. I'm sure Blizzard was plenty proud of cataclysm during it's cylcle. Look what happened there. OH YEA.

I hope they lose a million more subs and I further hope that every single one of you people defending this change in the fucking game gets yours when the next expansion comes, the developers abandon this bullshit reward model and then you QQ so fucking hard because they took the game you enjoyed away. I can't wait for it. Honestly. It's gonna be a good day.

[Deleted]

one of the reasons i quit.

[Jtbrig7390]

This reminds of the SNL sketch where Norm McDonald interviews one of the Dallas Cowboys after winning the SB and asks them if they're disappointed that they didn't cover the spread. Only 9.6 million? Still the top MMO and the quality in MoP has been great so I'm sure Blizzard is plenty proud of their game right now despite what some people on the Internet think.

Never said that them having just 9.6mil is a bad thing and in truth I path blizzard on the back for pulling it off.

But since the start of cata blizzard has been running wow into the ground and doing shitty things. there is a reason that wow had 12 million subs and is now down to 9.6 million.

But the Quality of content that blizzard has released since the start of Cata has been sub-par at best. Don't get me wrong the new zone in 5.2 looks nice but all it is is a dam daily quest hub nothing more.

ToT looks nice as well I will admit but everything before hand has been just total crap. I am not happy that there is a playable panda race never have been never will be. Not happy that these panda's can be monks ether.

When I play a RPG i look at things and compare them to the original RPG "D&D" and when something stupid comes along "playable panda race" it annoy's the shit out of me.

I do get this is my own personal problem. but to me panda's are a joke they are going extinct in real life because they are so lazy they rather sleep then fuck.

They took a bonus easter egg NPC from WCIII and made him and his race a main part of the xpac.

Most of the quest's in MOP is about getting drunk off your ass and eating.....the shit got old and I got tired of it.

Everything I say this someone reply's with "well he was also in the TGC" so was Leeroy Jenkins are we going to make a xpac about him as well.

There was a lot more lore blizzard could have used over panda's....and don't even get me started with the fucken talking monkey's...

If I hear 1 more talking money saying I'm going to ook ur dooker I am going to kill whoever made them.

To be clear I say since the start of cata because everything has been going downhill since cata.

I'm done with this I'm sure ill get a infraction or ban from my comment but this no longer interest's me I have grown tired of blizzard and there bullshit since cata. I gave them another shot with MOP and they proved to me once again they can't do shit right.

Cata bombed D3 Bombed and to me MOP as bombed as well. Before someone harps about the sells of D3. If the game had any other name besides Diablo it would not have sold so well.

But ill stop here don't really mean to derail the thread.

[fengosa]

so they got 1million subs then turned around and lost 400k subs "maybe more now"

so that means that they neted 600k subs since the release of MOP and your proud of this....the game use to have 12million subs and is now down to 9.6million and good chance its lower since almost all AP's have ended.

I don't see anything to be proud at this time with wow.

also that report was right at the end of Cata/Start of MOP now we are nearing the middle of MOP's life and there has yet to be a sub gain....


Got got 1 million subs and by the time its 2nd set of raids came out nearly lost half of the subs they got....ya clearly things are going smoot

But I forgot this is the MMOchamp forums people refuse to look at any fact's that may show that wow is in a shitty state atm.

Objectively speaking the reviews for MoP have been positive. A lot of people think it's the best xpac yet or avery close. My only really complaint so far has been pvp is slightly wonky. But who cares what customers think? Let's listen to the two guys who keep rehashing the same points about how grindy MoP is when the new factions don't even have the same reward structure as the ones and launch and you can xrealm T14 content through open raid.

[Leonard McCoy]

Objectively speaking the reviews for MoP have been positive. A lot of people think it's the best xpac yet or avery close. My only really complaint so far has been pvp is slightly wonky. But who cares what customers think? Let's listen to the two guys who keep rehashing the same points about how grindy MoP is when the new factions don't even have the same reward structure as the ones and launch and you can xrealm T14 content through open raid.

Objectively speaking the reviews for cataclysm were also positive. At launch people were thinking it's the best expac yet or really close. In fact both the metacritic User score and Reviewer score are higher than mists. I guess we can only take the world of random kinds on fan sits and on the official forums that the game is good? Many of those same people said cataclysm was good to. Everything that's happening in mists is just a repeat of cataclysm. Including the response by members of the community to calls for moderation. But who cares what customers think? Let's listen to children on forums who whined about me getting epics in dungeons because it invalidated their ahrd work. How grindy is MoP when I have to spent close to a month doing content i don't want to do to grind out enough Ilvl to begin the grind of the current patchs raid.

[Jtbrig7390]

Objectively speaking the reviews for MoP have been positive. A lot of people think it's the best xpac yet or avery close. My only really complaint so far has been pvp is slightly wonky. But who cares what customers think? Let's listen to the two guys who keep rehashing the same points about how grindy MoP is when the new factions don't even have the same reward structure as the ones and launch and you can xrealm T14 content through open raid.

I loled hard at pvp being slightly wonky.

PVP is in the worse state it has ever been in and even on this site you can see the threads full of people pissed that PVP is a joke in MOP.

Real nice you can play cross realm on t14 content real nice and all but now you can't get loot from the new world boss's unless they where killed on your home server.

One min blizzard wants people to play together next they don't....

[Klingers]

Simple question from another angle: Where the hell are they supposed to put new dungeons? The focus is supposed to be back on the old-world in 5.4. Most likely the Orgrimmar seige. That particular part of the word is a little full of dungeons methinks.

[Lodion]

I'd like to see more 5 man dungeons. Why not place an ilvl requirement on them above current LFR tiers, and have drops below normal raid gear? This way players can only run them after gearing up to an extent in LFR, but doesn't make them a shortcut for players to get into normal raids.

This would appear to address all the concerns with the troll heroics introduced in cata?

[Deleted]

I can understand people wanting new 5 mans, I would like new 5 mans as well.

I do not want them to implement them like the did in Cata though where they made the previous tier of 5 mans obsolete (removing content is bad in my opinion).

One thing I am getting REALLY sick off though, is people using Sub Loss (or in fact Sub Gain) to back up there side of the argument.

There are a LOT more factors to sub gain or loss than a single feature being added or removed.

You can NEVER EVER prove that adding or removing something had a positive or negative effect on subs as without adding or removing that feature the sub loss (or gain) might of been worse (or better) unless you have access to an alternative reality where they did not add or remove the feature.

There are a LOT of other factors that affect subs.

[ringpriest]

Objectively speaking the reviews for MoP have been positive. A lot of people think it's the best xpac yet or avery close. My only really complaint so far has been pvp is slightly wonky. But who cares what customers think? Let's listen to the two guys who keep rehashing the same points about how grindy MoP is when the new factions don't even have the same reward structure as the ones and launch and you can xrealm T14 content through open raid.

"Slightly wonky"? My (admittedly limited) PvP experience in MoP has been that it's full of bots, has more CC and burst than a WSG full of vanilla rogues, and success is completely and utterly dependent on a long, joyless gear grind.

[Jtbrig7390]

"Slightly wonky"? My (admittedly limited) PvP experience in MoP has been that it's full of bots, has more CC and burst than a WSG full of vanilla rogues, and success is completely and utterly dependent on a long, joyless gear grind.

Yep that is the way pvp is right now and its getting worse by the sec.

[ringpriest]

One thing I am getting REALLY sick off though, is people using Sub Loss (or in fact Sub Gain) to back up there side of the argument.

There are a LOT more factors to sub gain or loss than a single feature being added or removed.

You can NEVER EVER prove that adding or removing something had a positive or negative effect on subs as without adding or removing that feature the sub loss (or gain) might of been worse (or better) unless you have access to an alternative reality where they did not add or remove the feature.

There are a LOT of other factors that affect subs.

You're right, but you're missing the reason people keep returning to sub numbers: it's the only metric we have. (Ok, there are some old and buggy tool like Census and whatnot too, but they're basically variants of the same thing.) How many players raid? How many ran heroics within a month of launch? How about now? Are challege modes popular? What percentage of players do PvP at least ten hours or more per month? What kind of PvP do they do? Which realms have gained or lost active player? Heck, which regions have gained or lost subscriptions?

Blizzard is the only one with any of this information, and they share basically nothing. Thus, we flail around with the sub numbers, because they're the only reliable numbers we have access too.

[Leonard McCoy]

You're right, but you're missing the reason people keep returning to sub numbers: it's the only metric we have. (Ok, there are some old and buggy tool like Census and whatnot too, but they're basically variants of the same thing.) How many players raid? How many ran heroics within a month of launch? How about now? Are challege modes popular? What percentage of players do PvP at least ten hours or more per month? What kind of PvP do they do? Which realms have gained or lost active player? Heck, which regions have gained or lost subscriptions?

Blizzard is the only one with any of this information, and they share basically nothing. Thus, we flail around with the sub numbers, because they're the only reliable numbers we have access too.

I mean what else can you say? I make pretty decent arguments about why I think I shouldn't have to take a fucking full month to gear up to see the new raid but people plug their fucking ears and insists it's working. You point out that it hasn't stopped sub decline so it might not be working as well as they think and then they rage at your for pointing it out. It's such a no win scenario. I would have an easier time convincing bill oreilly about gravity and tidal forces than I do with these people./

[Deleted]

I mean what else can you say? I make pretty decent arguments about why I think I shouldn't have to take a fucking full month to gear up to see the new raid but people plug their fucking ears and insists it's working.

Because it's based purely and only on speculation and anecdotal evidence.

The oter side of the coin, and I will admit it's again anecdotal evidence, is my monk alt. Just hit 482 two days ago, after having run LFR for a week pre-patch and doing a full run this patch (the new drop rates proved to be pretty ridiculous, something off every boss plus several duplicates). So within the week, I was ready for the new LFR once it unlocks.

Besides, did it really only take you a week or so to gear up in the old system? I remember tears and swearing when tanks would ninja two-handers. Might just be my experience though.

[Leonard McCoy]

Because it's based purely and only on speculation and anecdotal evidence.

The oter side of the coin, and I will admit it's again anecdotal evidence, is my monk alt. Just hit 482 two days ago, after having run LFR for a week pre-patch and doing a full run this patch (the new drop rates proved to be pretty ridiculous, something off every boss plus several duplicates). So within the week, I was ready for the new LFR once it unlocks.

Besides, did it really only take you a week or so to gear up in the old system? I remember tears and swearing when tanks would ninja two-handers. Might just be my experience though.

Roughly yea. Their was as little impedence to me running new lfr when it came out in 4.3. Prior to that their was little impedence to me running firelands pugs with a decent ilvl either.

Of course it's based purely on speculation. I mean it could simple that the sky has fallen and the allfather odin has decreed no more subs for Blizzard. OR mists has failed to keep players and the subs continue to drop. Look at some point even in Blizzard land 2 + 2=4. If dailies quests and grinding for months on end were going to save this game then we should have seen an increase. We haven't. They lost almost half the subs they made during the intial mists rush in like 3 or 4 months. When they lose the other half will you tell me mists was the best thing ever? At some point you have to take a hard look and be objective and say it failed to hold players. Just like cataclysm failed to hold players. They will continue to fail to hold players. Until they get their act together and release more content (not more grind and not more ates) at a better rate.