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  1. #381
    I doubt many players have run all the 5-mans more than once or twice, if that. There's just no reason to do them unless you can do them very efficiently, because the rewards are so minimal.

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    Okay then put 5 mans in for that. I really don't care. The simple fact is that they aren't supporting the playstyle that many of us over the years loved and you can call me self entitled all you want it doesn't change the fact. Instead of calling for some moderation and BLizzard to relook at what it's doing you'd rather turn on your fellow players. Cataclysm 2.0 folks. Replace hard dungeons with more grind and that's where your at.

    It's a fucking label you can apply so you can dismiss my criticism. That's fine I understand you need that but it doesn't make it true. You can label me as that but I don't have to accept it and I don't. What I want is to be rewarded for my time NOT BE SUBJECT TO RNG or do fucking dailies. The game doesn't reward me for the time I invest and no activity in the game feels rewarding enough. YOu consider that self entitled, I don't. that's just something you throw around to dismiss people with criticism.
    You talk a good game about getting gear for your time, but you do realize other than the rare epic drop until WOTLK people never got epics in 5 mans right? Then Cata hit and the epics stopped being dropped in 5 mans until the last bit of Crapaclysm, so by your standards saying you wanted it like BC and Vanilla you are actually getting it, you are getting blues.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan View Post
    5 man dungeons do serve a purpose, that purpose is fun.
    As has been proven time and time again, give the WoW community something that's potentially fun with only cosmetic rewards and barely anyone will run it. We're talking about a community where someone wants flying mounts gone because they prefer to look at the world from the ground. Which they can still do. But won't unless forced to.

    Mentally, it's reached a point where the best course of action might perhaps be doing away with stats altogether... but just try to imagine the amount of whining that would cause.

    I don't know why this is the case actually. It's been happening at least since TBC.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.

    I mean, we've been there several times before. Always, ALWAYS it ended in people complaining. Loudly. And those that were fine with the content got shafted when fewer and fewer people chose to run it.

    Now, there may be a way to fix this, though it's sorta time- and resource-consuming. Provide different tiers of 5-mans... where the old ones scale up. Say we get 10 new 5-mans in patch X.0.1, then 2 more in patch X.2, with the entry level gear for the first tier of HCs being X20 and the second X50. But instead of having the X50 crowd run the same two dungeons a bazillion times, make a seperate version of the old ones that drops the same ilvl loot as the new dungeons and automatically unlocks once you hit gear level X50.

    (Then get masses of BLIZZARD U LAZY, NOW U JUST REHASH SAME EXPANSION CONTENT, WOW IS DEAD posts. As always.)

  4. #384
    Unlike Dailies and Scenarios, 5-man Heroic takes some efforts to make.

    Currently Blizzard is trying to put least efforts in, and get most subs out.
    The same raid can create 5 different tiers.
    Last edited by xenogear3; 2013-03-10 at 08:11 AM.

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan View Post
    5 man dungeons do serve a purpose, that purpose is fun. There are many people, like myself and those in my guild, that used to do the 5 man dungeons in WOTLK, for all the cool achievements and wacky things you can do in them. That of course, eventually paid off in a reward. It was FUN to get 4 people together on a non-raid night, when everyone was board, and go in there (sometimes drunk) and just mess around trying to get achievements for people and doing off the wall things.
    They are playing to the majority of the crowd, everyone races to end game content to raid, sure there are people who find 5 mans fun and go for achievements and what not but if you look at LFD you get the "GO GO GO" people who just want to be done and over with so they can move on their next one and do that one super fast without a thought in their head, Blizzard caught hell for so long about bad raids and they are trying to make up for it so I guess what I have to say is........

    Welcome to what raiders have felt for most expansions since WOTLK, it's 5 man players turn to sit on the bench.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Thanks. Now I know, that I won't resub in this xpack.
    You dont resub only because there won't be dungeons? That's idiotic.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokann View Post
    As has been proven time and time again, give the WoW community something that's potentially fun with only cosmetic rewards and barely anyone will run it. We're talking about a community where someone wants flying mounts gone because they prefer to look at the world from the ground. Which they can still do. But won't unless forced to.

    Mentally, it's reached a point where the best course of action might perhaps be doing away with stats altogether... but just try to imagine the amount of whining that would cause.

    I don't know why this is the case actually. It's been happening at least since TBC.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.

    I mean, we've been there several times before. Always, ALWAYS it ended in people complaining. Loudly. And those that were fine with the content got shafted when fewer and fewer people chose to run it.

    Now, there may be a way to fix this, though it's sorta time- and resource-consuming. Provide different tiers of 5-mans... where the old ones scale up. Say we get 10 new 5-mans in patch X.0.1, then 2 more in patch X.2, with the entry level gear for the first tier of HCs being X20 and the second X50. But instead of having the X50 crowd run the same two dungeons a bazillion times, make a seperate version of the old ones that drops the same ilvl loot as the new dungeons and automatically unlocks once you hit gear level X50.

    (Then get masses of BLIZZARD U LAZY, NOW U JUST REHASH SAME EXPANSION CONTENT, WOW IS DEAD posts. As always.)
    1000% This.. The most comprehensive post I have seen in this thread and pretty much what I was thinking in that you can only do dungeons so often before they become boring as all heck.. Can you imagine how much Blizz would have to pump out 5 mans to keep the people happy but without rehashing content..

  8. #388
    I find it sad that there isnt high priority for 5m anymore, though i can understand why they dont add any new ones.

    With the current design 5m are just a step for getting to the next step (raids, lfr, whatever). Adding (better) 5m later in the progression, will mess up things like in Cata.

    I like to see dungeons as an alternative path, a place where people can conquer a challenge with some friends (remmeber old BRD and heroics).
    Adding new dungeons during expansion progrssions wouldnt be as bad there.
    They could still do it these days if they wanted to since they have their challenge mode (not the same as my idea but at least something) and offer on normal mode same ilvl as the other 5m.
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  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    1000% This.. The most comprehensive post I have seen in this thread and pretty much what I was thinking in that you can only do dungeons so often before they become boring as all heck.. Can you imagine how much Blizz would have to pump out 5 mans to keep the people happy but without rehashing content..
    Agreed and seconded! Because after all everything in wow is a grind, grinding levels to max, grinding dungeons and heroics to get the best gear you can before moving on, it is nice to see rehashes here and there ( to which I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone complaining about the black temple being used as rehashed scenery for the lock quest yet).

    overall it does keep things going for a while, which was the main problem in past expansions, designing everything in 1 go and releasing it after 6 months + would cause a decline in subs, so smart move on blizzards case, they shipping out more content quicker while at the same time giving the advances so to speak with LFR

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    You dont resub only because there won't be dungeons? That's idiotic.
    Worthwhile 5 man content (challenge runs are not categorized in here) is important to people who don't give a shit about dailies, refuse to partake in LFR and don't have time to raid properly but still want some challenge. And by worthwhile I mean pre-HoT and pre-nerf Cata / TBC dungeons. But this doesn't fit Blizzard's philosophy (literally), because there's so many sources and tiers of different gear now they can't deal with another source in forms of 5 mans.

    Since there isn't any in this game anymore, people quit, because they have nothing to do.
    Last edited by Syran; 2013-03-10 at 09:18 AM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    They are playing to the majority of the crowd, everyone races to end game content to raid, sure there are people who find 5 mans fun and go for achievements and what not but if you look at LFD you get the "GO GO GO" people who just want to be done and over with so they can move on their next one and do that one super fast without a thought in their head, Blizzard caught hell for so long about bad raids and they are trying to make up for it so I guess what I have to say is........

    Welcome to what raiders have felt for most expansions since WOTLK, it's 5 man players turn to sit on the bench.
    Since WOTLK? So you are saying most raids since LK where bad? I disagree with this and not only that, it isn't even comparable. What if Blizzard said no new raids til next expansion? That is comparable. I agree people race through the instances, but if given a choice I bet people would want new instances to race through.

    But anyhoo, without actual gear dropping from the new dungeons, people wouldn't run them. However, if they did choose to add gear, it would again have to be high enough ilvl to compete with LFR... meaning people would only run the new dungeons, then complain how they have nothing to do but run the same stuff over and over again every day. Eventually, people wouldn't even bother anymore due to burnout.
    This isn't any different then what it is now. You run LFR over and over again. You run dailies over and over again. Some people run dungeons over and over again to help with getting VP capped. People get unlucky in drops with LFR, it is by far the biggest complaint LFR has. Release dungeons that are a little lower in ilvl than LFR so people don't gear up so quickly, to make those people who aren't getting gear in LFR happy and since they still need LFR, they would run that too. After they get gear from the new dungeons, they will have more variation in dungeon queue if they want to run dungeons for VP. I don't know about you, I don't mind having more different dungeons in queue and for me personally after running the same 3 instances over and over again, it will make me miss the older ones and wouldn't mind getting those again for VP.

  12. #392
    Release dungeons that are a little lower in ilvl than LFR so people don't gear up so quickly
    It would have to be at least equal to the first two LFR wings to be any good at all, though. MSV LFR is only good for weapons and trinkets as is, due to S13 honor gear.
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  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    You talk a good game about getting gear for your time, but you do realize other than the rare epic drop until WOTLK people never got epics in 5 mans right? Then Cata hit and the epics stopped being dropped in 5 mans until the last bit of Crapaclysm, so by your standards saying you wanted it like BC and Vanilla you are actually getting it, you are getting blues.
    This is so retarded I don't know where to being. You know what beginning or end of crapaclysm I COULD SPEND THE FUCKIGN VALOR FROM THE DUNGEONS WITH OUT THE GOD DAMN REP. So you know what that means? THE FUCKING DUNGEONS GAVE ME GOD DAMN GEAR. The amount of ignorance and sheer obstinate stupidity that we must over come in this game is mind blowing.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-03-10 at 10:05 AM.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I didn't say everyone agreed to me. I just pointed out that NOBODY DID THE FUCKING DAILIES IN THE PAST (or next to nobody) so how could that be the content they were asking for in mists?
    more lies. guess you have to make shit up when people dont agree with you
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  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    more lies. guess you have to make shit up when people dont agree with you
    it's not lies. It's actually what the developers say. The developers are very clear in this. Dailies were not compelling before they had reward behind them. In fact if you go read tweets, they mark it down very specifically that dailies pre molten core were very different and they were. The biggest difference being progression gear tied to them. Now I tweeted the developer the exact same question about why dailies became a cure for boredom when they weren't in the past and his response was exactly that. Molten core dailies are much different, meaning the gear was placed behind them. Why was the gear put in them? Well because (as the developres also full well know and acknowledged) reward is tied so much to "fun" that the two are necessary. Ergo The dailies weren't a cure for boredom in the past and people couldn't have been asking for it as content when they by and large never did it before. The content they wanted WAS MORE REWARDING DUNGEONS AND RAIDS. I'm so sick of arguing this, it's lilke you people are wilfully ignorant. It's like arguing with the creationists or Glenn Beck. No amount of reason will sway them and no amount of reason will convince the daily fan brigade that dailies are not what people were asking for. The game could lose 2 million subs and still you'd be sitting here saying YUUP DAILIES ARE WHERE IT"S AT!

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    it's not lies. It's actually what the developers say. The developers are very clear in this. Dailies were not compelling before they had reward behind them. In fact if you go read tweets, they mark it down very specifically that dailies pre molten core were very different and they were. The biggest difference being progression gear tied to them. Now I tweeted the developer the exact same question about why dailies became a cure for boredom when they weren't in the past and his response was exactly that. Molten core dailies are much different, meaning the gear was placed behind them. Why was the gear put in them? Well because (as the developres also full well know and acknowledged) reward is tied so much to "fun" that the two are necessary. Ergo The dailies weren't a cure for boredom in the past and people couldn't have been asking for it as content when they by and large never did it before. The content they wanted WAS MORE REWARDING DUNGEONS AND RAIDS. I'm so sick of arguing this, it's lilke you people are wilfully ignorant. It's like arguing with the creationists or Glenn Beck. No amount of reason will sway them and no amount of reason will convince the daily fan brigade that dailies are not what people were asking for. The game could lose 2 million subs and still you'd be sitting here saying YUUP DAILIES ARE WHERE IT"S AT!
    lies, alot of people did quel'danas, argent tournament, and molten front and alot of people have always asked for more quest content for lore. you're purposely twisting comments blizzard made about players not being out in the world and raiders to be all about dailies.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    lies, alot of people did quel'danas, argent tournament, and molten front and alot of people have always asked for more quest content for lore. you're purposely twisting comments blizzard made about players not being out in the world and raiders to be all about dailies.
    I'm not twisting anything. Go read the GCS tweets. I specifically asked why they thought dialies were a cure for boredom when they weren't in the past and his respoonse was that molten core dailies were different. So on the one hand they acknowledge that as a cure for boredom dailies in the past were not functioning well enough, meaning people were not doing them. On the other hand the molten core dailies had one SIGNIFICANT CHANGE which was the gear behind them. Because Blizzard WANTS YOU TO RUN FUCKING DAILIES. Their trying to change the type of content most people favor because dailies are easier to produce and require less influx of resources. It wasn't the content that people asked for but it's what Blizzard is trying to provide to meet the demand of having more to do without actually doing more. LIke ya know more patches with dungeons and raids which is what people actually wanted.

    I'm not twisting a fucking thing, your just being ignorant.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    I'm not twisting anything. Go read the GCS tweets. I specifically asked why they thought dialies were a cure for boredom when they weren't in the past and his respoonse was that molten core dailies were different. So on the one hand they acknowledge that as a cure for boredom dailies in the past were not functioning well enough, meaning people were not doing them. On the other hand the molten core dailies had one SIGNIFICANT CHANGE which was the gear behind them. Because Blizzard WANTS YOU TO RUN FUCKING DAILIES. Their trying to change the type of content most people favor because dailies are easier to produce and require less influx of resources. It wasn't the content that people asked for but it's what Blizzard is trying to provide to meet the demand of having more to do without actually doing more. LIke ya know more patches with dungeons and raids which is what people actually wanted.

    I'm not twisting a fucking thing, your just being ignorant.
    did you not even read what you just said? you somehow twisted a small comment on twitter into "nobody did dailies or ever wanted them" which is insane.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    did you not even read what you just said? you somehow twisted a small comment on twitter into "nobody did dailies or ever wanted them" which is insane.
    If you read the original quote I said next to nobody in brackets because it's true. For the purposes of the developers not enough people were doing them because THEY ALL FAVORED FUCKING DUNGEONS. Since they all favored dungeons what content do you think people were asking for more of? The content they never did or the content they knew and loved. It so fucking obvious what's happening. NEXT TO NOBODY DID THAT FUCKING SHIT. You tiny minority of daily quest marchers did and since the rewards are so less compelling in 5.2 (in reality less FORCED) you'll see how few fucking people will touch that shit as well. It's so fucking obvious and naked what's happening. I just can't believe the shit they get away with.

  20. #400
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    The thing being is that to open Sunwell everyone had to do the dailies on Quel Danas, and basically Blizz brought it back for Isle of Thunder. While yes they can be a bore to some to others they are fun, supply a nice amount of gold and other things.. The only daily hub that really didn't make sense and was horrible was The Molten Front which never did anything but allow rep grind which was a pain for gear and crafting patterns. But unlike Quel Danas The Molten Front served no other purpose..

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