Racism, homophobia and WoW players.

[Maxilian]

Wow. Just wow.

It makes me laugh how people still hold this attitude in 2013.

Please try not to make those kind of comments, cause someone may feel insulted, when you don't agree with someone say why or just say that you don't agree but you don't have to insult anyone, if for some reason you don't want to answer or you know your answer might be hurtfull just don't do it, cause we all know where goes a conversation between 2 angry people... (Insults), BTW is not like i agree with his/her opinion, but lets try to "discuss" peacefully

[Alfryd]

Please try not to make those kind of comments, cause someone may feel insulted, when you don't agree with someone say why or just say that you don't agree but you don't have to insult anyone, if for some reason you don't want to answer or you know your answer might be hurtfull just don't do it, cause we all know where goes a conversation between 2 angry people... (Insults), BTW is not like i agree with his/her opinion, but lets try to "discuss" peacefully

He compared homosexuality to being, in his own words, an 'illness', but yes of course my comment was the offensive one lol.

As an open bisexual man, I do take some offense to people saying I have a mental problem. Not enough offense to care about his opinion, but enough offense to question why he thinks that and why we as a world are progressed enough to recognise and appreciate the differences in people (for example, a woman that isn't maternal and doesn't want kids will not face discrimination despite the fact that she too is, by that mans definition, 'ill' as well since she doesn't want to reproduce and thus by his standards apparently failing the human race) as long as it conforms to hierarchy of societal values. So it's okay to be different in your ideology and morals as long as you fit the ethnicity and sexuality bill.

[noo]

He compared homosexuality to being, in his own words, an 'illness', but yes of course my comment was the offensive one lol.

As an open bisexual man, I do take some offense to people saying I have a mental problem. Not enough offense to care about his opinion, but enough offense to question why he thinks that and why we as a world are progressed enough to recognise and appreciate the differences in people (for example, a woman that isn't maternal and doesn't want kids will not face discrimination despite the fact that she too is, by that mans definition, 'ill' as well since she doesn't want to reproduce and thus by his standards apparently failing the human race) as long as it conforms to hierarchy of societal values. So it's okay to be different in your ideology and morals as long as you fit the ethnicity and sexuality bill.

Instead of viewing the world around you in terms of "progress" you should call it malaise instead, you're right though in 2013 we've come to the point where you will sit there with a straight face and tell me that you having sex with a man is perfectly normal. Take a step back and think out of the box you've been put in.

That isn't normal. That isn't natural, the cause is illness and cultural decadence.

[Maxilian]

He compared homosexuality to being, in his own words, an 'illness', but yes of course my comment was the offensive one lol.

As an open bisexual man, I do take some offense to people saying I have a mental problem. Not enough offense to care about his opinion, but enough offense to question why he thinks that and why we as a world are progressed enough to recognise and appreciate the differences in people (for example, a woman that isn't maternal and doesn't want kids will not face discrimination despite the fact that she too is, by that mans definition, 'ill' as well since she doesn't want to reproduce and thus by his standards apparently failing the human race) as long as it conforms to hierarchy of societal values. So it's okay to be different as long as you're Caucasian, heterosexual and preferably a man, but women are 'tolerated' too.

I understand i too felt ofended by his comment, but i clearly told him before that his comment was offensive and i didn't offended him saying that, also we should not do to others what we don't want them to do to us.

[Soulwind]

He compared homosexuality to being, in his own words, an 'illness', but yes of course my comment was the offensive one lol.

As an open bisexual man, I do take some offense to people saying I have a mental problem. Not enough offense to care about his opinion, but enough offense to question why he thinks that and why we as a world are progressed enough to recognise and appreciate the differences in people (for example, a woman that isn't maternal and doesn't want kids will not face discrimination despite the fact that she too is, by that mans definition, 'ill' as well since she doesn't want to reproduce and thus by his standards apparently failing the human race) as long as it conforms to hierarchy of societal values. So it's okay to be different as long as you're Caucasian, heterosexual and preferably a man, but women are 'tolerated' too.

The 'failing the human race' argument is also funny because there are far TOO MANY humans in the world to begin with, and that is starting to be a real problem in many countries. There is also a huge amount of orphans and children that already exist and may benefit from parents that prefer adopting.

That argument works for pandas, wolves or elephants. They wouldn't say gay rats are wrong because they don't produce more rats, would they? And we don't need to fumigate to prevent overpopulation, we just need to have less children! The world needs gay people!

[vaeevictiss]

the way i see it, is who gives a fuck really? my coworkers laugh when i say i support gay marriage. I really dont give a shit so why should i impede on other peoples happiness? two men getting married in no way affects my marriage. Now personally, i do find it a bit gross, but thats my opinion. If it makes you happy then do it and im not going to yell out its the end of the world if two guys want to get married.

It reminds me of this one Colbert Report clip where he interviewed Neil Patrick Harris. he said to him "I like you Neil, and that is strange, because you are a gay man. Its almost as if your happiness, doesnt affect my happiness" lol

People can throw out the bible shit all day, but in the end if they really read the bible, they would find there are probably 10 things they are doing the bible frowns upon. they can also throw around America this America that. Im one of the most patriotic people i know, im patriotic as fuck. Im also pretty sure when the founding fathers set up the nation in was on the idea to basically, stay the fuck out of peoples shit...plain and simple (plus they all came from Europe, you would be a fool to think none of them were gay...haha ok joke over). Don't brush your hatred and ignorance off on religious figures and patriots.

But...

Of course there is a "but" to my rant (no pun intended)

I personally don't go around telling people im straight just because im straight...

i will leave it at that cause you know where im going with it.

[Maxilian]

the way i see it, is who gives a fuck really? my coworkers laugh when i say i support gay marriage. I really dont give a shit so why should i impede on other peoples happiness? two men getting married in no way affects my marriage. Now personally, i do find it a bit gross, but thats my opinion. If it makes you happy then do it and im not going to yell out its the end of the world if two guys want to get married.

It reminds me of this one Colbert Report clip where he interviewed Neil Patrick Harris. he said to him "I like you Neil, and that is strange, because you are a gay man. Its almost as if your happiness, doesnt affect my happiness" lol

People can throw out the bible shit all day, but in the end if they really read the bible, they would find there are probably 10 things they are doing the bible frowns upon. they can also throw around America this America that. Im one of the most patriotic people i know, im patriotic as fuck. Im also pretty sure when the founding fathers set up the nation in was on the idea to basically, stay the fuck out of peoples shit...plain and simple (plus they all came from Europe, you would be a fool to think none of them were gay...haha ok joke over). Don't brush your hatred and ignorance off on religious figures and patriots.

But...

Of course there is a "but" to my rant (no pun intended)

I personally don't go around telling people im straight just because im straight...

i will leave it at that cause you know where im going with it.

I agree with you, also is true there's no reason to be "showing off" your sexual preference, but some people think that if i go out with my boyfriend, i'm "showing off" that i'm gay..., but... in that case, i just want to have a nice date with him, just as you want to have a nice date with your GF...

[vaeevictiss]

I agree with you, also is true there's no reason to be "showing off" your sexual preference, but some people think that if i go out with my boyfriend, i'm "showing off" that i'm gay..., but... in that case, i just want to have a nice date with him, just as you want to have a nice date with your GF...

yea, obviously i dont see that as showing off. What i see as showing off is deliberately proclaiming you are gay, doing all the gay pride parades/parties, or thinking you should be treated differently or have different rights just because you are gay. I see that as just creating a group. If you want to be treated like straight people (or treated fairly...not sure how to word this here without sounding offensive), i would think putting yourself into an obviously different group would just be counter-productive.

[Alfryd]

But...

Of course there is a "but" to my rant (no pun intended)

I personally don't go around telling people im straight just because im straight...

i will leave it at that cause you know where im going with it.

Because you don't live in a society that shuns you based on nothing other than ignorance .

I get what you mean, I really do. It *is* annoying when people continually bring out the political friendly card and start issuing warnings. But they came about for a reason. I'm sure when Martin Luther King was doing his race marches, alot/some/what ever your optimism level is at white people of America were probably thinking 'we get it, you're black, you have it hard, now shut up and go home'. But no, he persisted for a reason. The people of America *needed* to recognise that discrimination is an evil thing, and Martin Luther King simply did one or two speeches and then faded into the background, nothing would be done about his plight.


What I'm trying to say is that it's annoying on a personal level, because even the most kind person gets sick of being harassed and bombarded about things they don't think they can change/don't personally effect them, but it's a necessary process to develop an accepting society that does not discriminate.

Plus, homosexuality has another challenge that doesn't apply to race. You can't particularly see homosexuality. Yes, you'll probably argue that there are a significant amount of gay people that so openly and visually break their gender stereotypes that they HAVE to be gay, but they are ironically the minority of the homosexual community.

What I'm trying to say is - the average gay/lesbian person does not break their gender stereotype. Me, for example, am an average guy and no-one suspects I'm bisexual unless I flat out tell them. So, like me, many homosexuality people feel like they HAVE to state that they're gay so they're recognised because in every other regard they're a 'normal' bloke/girl. So these people can only communicate their identity verbally; they don't do it to show off, but it is a huge part of who they are that largely remains invisible unless they state it.

And remaining invisible in the context (people discriminating against a minority) is incredibly detrimental to the acceptance of homosexuality, where every single voice matters to turn the tide on the ignorance of the majority (and for the record, as I'm sure you're aware, it's working. I have never personally experienced homophobia in real life, and latest statistics in the UK atleast reveal that only about 15% of the 'young' generation consider themselves homophobic now. That's already miles better than as little as 10 years ago. And we've now come to a situation where being homophobic actually places you into a minority, since the majority now accept homosexuality... so yay >.>). So yeah, it's a shitty and annoying situation I agree, but really, it's needed for the most part.

[blackyfrost]

it's NORMAL for humans to bash what they aren't. it's a clan mentality. if you don't believe your clan is better than everyone elses clan, you're weird. you can temper that for the sake of society, but it's still there. if calling people a name throws them off their game, and arguing online is most definitely a game, then it's a useful tool.

[Maxilian]

yea, obviously i dont see that as showing off. What i see as showing off is deliberately proclaiming you are gay, doing all the gay pride parades/parties, or thinking you should be treated differently or have different rights just because you are gay. I see that as just creating a group. If you want to be treated like straight people (or treated fairly...not sure how to word this here without sounding offensive), i would think putting yourself into an obviously different group would just be counter-productive.

I understand that there's no point in proclaiming you are gay and what is a gay pride party? O.o

But in case of the Gay pride parade..., well IMHO is like the same thing that the women's day or the races day (I'm not pretty sure how is that day called in english) i mean, is a parade that show... well that people are proud to be gay and that there's no need to be ashamed of what you are, if you look at it these way, there's no straight pride parade, because there has never been a moment were you would be hurted or discriminated because you're straight...

[blackyfrost]

I understand that there's no point in proclaiming you are gay and what is a gay pride party? O.o

But in case of the Gay pride parade..., well IMHO is like the same thing that the women's day or the races day (I'm not pretty sure how is that day called in english) i mean, is a parade that show... well that people are proud to be gay and that there's no need to be ashamed of what you are, if you look at it these way, there's no straight pride parade, because there has never been a moment were you would be hurted or discriminated because you're straight...

those parades are meant to be attention grabbers to further a cause, they're usually where the attention whores gather to be seen though and they don't further a cause

if anything they'll hurt it.

a parade for anything that is considered "normal" or "majority" would be like everyday life.

[Maxilian]

it's NORMAL for humans to bash what they aren't. it's a clan mentality. if you don't believe your clan is better than everyone elses clan, you're weird. you can temper that for the sake of society, but it's still there. if calling people a name throws them off their game, and arguing online is most definitely a game, then it's a useful tool.

That's the problem, the "clan mentality" should change, cause just because we have different opinions or/and that we like different things doesn't mean that X or Y group is better than the other

[blackyfrost]

That's the problem, the "clan mentality" should change, cause just because we have different opinions or/and that we like different things doesn't mean that X or Y group is better than the other

that will never change, but neither will the fact that humans dream of utopia

in a perfect world we'd get bored to death. we thrive on conflict and can't live without it

[Alfryd]

those parades are meant to be attention grabbers to further a cause, they're usually where the attention whores gather to be seen though and they don't further a cause

if anything they'll hurt it.

a parade for anything that is considered "normal" or "majority" would be like everyday life.

Hmm. Well, everyone (including gay people) view pride parades differently.

I personally think at their core, they're meant to further the awareness of how the homosexuality community is discriminated against, but also embrace diversity. Because, after all, the human race is meant to be known for it's diversity. We've come to the point in history where people are now *proud* to be part of the homosexuality community.

However some gay people don't appreciate the significance of pride parades, and instead exploit them for selfish reasons (huge gathering of gay men/women (bare in mind, the dating selection pool for gay people is MUCH smaller than their straight counterparts, so a *huge* gathering of gay people is actually quite a big deal to us), most go looking for an easy hook up these days... which is admittedly disgraceful), so they've acquired a rather bad reputation where even gay people now see them as a bad thing.

So yeah, I think the principal is sound, but the execution is done poorly because... well... of humanity really, selfish desires usually win our over selfless desires. Gay people are people too, and ask yourself this, what would you rather do - appreciate and celebrate your status as a minority, or get laid?

[Doctor Amadeus]

It will end in games when it ends in RL, unfortunatly that isn't going to happen anytime soon

[Lulbalance]

"The way people treat you is more about them than it is about you.."

Probably the best way to think of this whole issue. Most wow players are inherently insecure.

[Maxilian]

that will never change, but neither will the fact that humans dream of utopia

in a perfect world we'd get bored to death. we thrive on conflict and can't live without it

I understand that the clan mentality will not just... dissapear... why? cause that's what make the human competitive (Sports, technology, etc...) but there are things that should not be grouped in the clan mentality, like.... difference of gender, race, sexuality, religion, etc...

That's what have to change from the clan mentality

[Deleted]

So homophobia has come a long way in Wow. The players have gone from straight guys calling each other homophobic slurs as insult; to straight guys saying they want to have sex with each other as complements. But the same thing has not happen to racism from the players in the game. The average guild chat is still filled with the same "Lol at black people and their stereotypes" as when it began. My question is why? Why have the players shifted away from homophobia but at the same time hold on to racism.

Gay bashing and racism are the same as they were 7 years ago in WoW. Jokes around gay culture and black people are just as funny as they were 7 years ago as well.

Nothing changed in WoW community, which is good. I never seen any active bashing on any gay or black people...but if making jokes counts as bashing well yes then bashing is all around.

[vaeevictiss]

I understand that there's no point in proclaiming you are gay and what is a gay pride party? O.o

But in case of the Gay pride parade..., well IMHO is like the same thing that the women's day or the races day (I'm not pretty sure how is that day called in english) i mean, is a parade that show... well that people are proud to be gay and that there's no need to be ashamed of what you are, if you look at it these way, there's no straight pride parade, because there has never been a moment were you would be hurted or discriminated because you're straight...

i suppose i understand it from that point of view...because it is much like the gun debate. Not trying to derail, merely comparing. I am an avid gun enthusiast. Apparently to most people on this site that makes me a "gun-toting, psychopathic, racist, gay-basher, sister fucking, god fearing, redneck" (did i get close there).

In fact, i have no problems with peoples races, don't mind gays, im married to a woman that was not in my family prior to saying "i do". I also am a military veteran with time in iraq, and i currently am a contractor for the US Department of State designing critical radio systems for all embassies and consulates around the world to protect life and property. If that makes me a scumbag, psycho, gun owner then so be it. But I stand with those other responsible gun owners to openly show why the guns clearly arent the problem. Like was mentioned here with the gay topic, there are some bad apples that just make the rest of us look stupid. 1 step forward, 5 steps back.

so yea, i can relate to your defense.