Thread: Ban DPS Metres

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  1. #161
    Immortal Luko's Avatar
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    Just assholes being assholes I'm afraid. Just make sure you're doing everything you can do to nail down your rotation and manage cooldowns and do the best you can do. Remember, 30k was last expansion DPS. Especially as a ret in gear high enough to queue for a heroic, you should still be bursting decently high and averaging out on low movement bosses at 40k+ even without your heroic upgrades.
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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Banning is the wrong word imho... Removing the number display entirely would be the right description.
    For all to be seen would be a health bar, no numbers in it. Would it be more challenging to kill targets in raids? Possibly. But that's what you hear all the time. The content isn't hard enough. Well there it would become hard enough without adding anything to the encounter at all.
    Many say that the problem isn't the addons, but the people who use them. That's true. But it doesn't help the situation when 9 out of 10 people can't interpret them correctly.
    Or when people don't know how the damage output of the classes isn't linear. Some do decent damage earlier already, some get the power a bit later. And there's tons of factors to be counted to measure the performance of a group member.

    OP had bad luck. I rather pity those who are obsessed with their meters. In 5 man dungeons, I don't even bother to load mine. They are useless right there.
    You know what the first rule of online gaming when things goes pear shaped is? It's always the other guys fault. Take out combat logs, addons, inspect features and when a wipe occurs people will still point fingers at each other for poor performance. At least with these tools we have a good chance of pointing the finger at the right person. I don't get this attitude which wants to protect bad players from their own bad play, it's like asking every chess opponent to let you win. We start playing games with a low skill level and it's only through observing our mistakes that we improve; hiding the mistakes to protect people's feelings achieves nothing except a whole lot more frustration when a whole lot more wipes occur and the group kicks out a decent player at the expense of the one at fault because they lacked the tools to make a fair judgement.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Many say that the problem isn't the addons, but the people who use them. That's true. But it doesn't help the situation when 9 out of 10 people can't interpret them correctly.
    Or when people don't know how the damage output of the classes isn't linear. Some do decent damage earlier already, some get the power a bit later. And there's tons of factors to be counted to measure the performance of a group member.

    OP had bad luck. I rather pity those who are obsessed with their meters. In 5 man dungeons, I don't even bother to load mine. They are useless right there.t.

    I would say even higher.

    I upload the combatlogs for my raid, and at times it feels that I am the closest to understanding.

    Problem with ingame meters is all they show is the fight DPS, they dont show consistency, if someone was being lazy, how well geared each player is etc etc.

    Im one of the more patient tanks, unless the person is being stupid (ninjapulling, pet with growl on, ninja afking, loot ninjaing (ninja is the theme here...)) I always let them stay, I remember the days when I wasnt a good player, the only way you can get better is playing, there is also only so much you can learn on dummies.

  4. #164
    It is not a DPS meters problem, blame LFG. People used assemble the party, looking for gear level they wanted to see in a party (tho it was getting ridiculous sometimes at some point where you were asked to be geared better than the gear dungeon drops). In the end forcing a newb into a party going for quick run won't help - he'll get kicked anyway. It was better back in the days when you had to wait for a player to travel to the dungeon to replace someone - players cared who they group with and about their reputation as well.
    Proper LFG tool should just let you see who is available for dungeon, inspect their gear and manually invite. Then someone cheating ilvl check and doing less dps than a tank would not be picked and would end up doing what he is supposed to do - farm or find a guild.
    WoW is 90% single player game nowadays with all this crap blizz added.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Play a game that doesn't support DPS meters and you'll see how that changes the whole feel of group content. When something goes wrong, people don't blame the DPS. They focus on the real problems, which in most situations are things like coordination, bad planning etc.
    in a man 5 hc? rofl if you wipe you're bad end of, there is no planning, only rolling face.

  6. #166
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Just assholes being assholes I'm afraid. Just make sure you're doing everything you can do to nail down your rotation and manage cooldowns and do the best you can do. Remember, 30k was last expansion DPS. Especially as a ret in gear high enough to queue for a heroic, you should still be bursting decently high and averaging out on low movement bosses at 40k+ even without your heroic upgrades.
    Unfortunately, burst is the only thing Rets are about.

    In some Heroics you literally just sit there with your thumb up your ass because Avenging Wrath and Holy Avenger are very underwhelming compared to, say, a Warrior's basic burst and Bloodbath. Warrior is going to do good burst every minute and he's going to do amazing burst when Reck is up. Ret is going to low damage outside of CDs, and it may even be a waste to pop them on some bosses.

    Ret is just all about when you choose to use your cooldowns. It's an incredibly drab and boring gameplay perspective. It's not so bad in PvP, but I feel like it is exceptionally unappealing in PvE. Not because it isn't the best, but it's just ridiculous that the spec is so dependent on it's cooldowns.

  7. #167
    I prefer to help people who speak up at the start, like "i don't know this dungeon" or "Sorry, just hit 90 may not be that good"

    I tend to feel since they put the effort in to let me know, i will put in the effort to help them and talk. It's the people who say nothing, you ask them what's up (albeit not always that nicely said) and they respond with nothing or "Stfu do your job."

    If they treat me with decency, i will do the same.

  8. #168
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    I see 2 problems.

    1) People being unnecessarily rude to other people
    2) People being unnecessarily bad at playing the game

    Both needs to go. There's no reason to kick some baddie in a dungeon doing shitty DPS who's just trying to gear up. If that person starts causing wipes and ruining the groups run then it's justified. How ever equal blame also has to be put on these fools who simply do not know how to play their toon. It's not always the gear, it's usually that thing in between your ears. Play better and these situations the OP got himself into rarely happen.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Elhana View Post
    It is not a DPS meters problem, blame LFG. People used assemble the party, looking for gear level they wanted to see in a party (tho it was getting ridiculous sometimes at some point where you were asked to be geared better than the gear dungeon drops). In the end forcing a newb into a party going for quick run won't help - he'll get kicked anyway. It was better back in the days when you had to wait for a player to travel to the dungeon to replace someone - players cared who they group with and about their reputation as well.
    Proper LFG tool should just let you see who is available for dungeon, inspect their gear and manually invite. Then someone cheating ilvl check and doing less dps than a tank would not be picked and would end up doing what he is supposed to do - farm or find a guild.
    WoW is 90% single player game nowadays with all this crap blizz added.
    See this is interesting.. the tool im sure works just as intended. If you put people that are over geared and only in the heroic for VP then it seems you wish for it to be all over geared people to get in the same group. Conversely have all the crap geared in the same group to help get geared up. That being said if you were fresh 90 grouped with all fresh 90s going into a dungeon.. what do you think the odds of rage quits or lots of wipes due to lack of dps/heals etc. The group finder seems to blend fresh 90s and geared 90s to help move it along.

  10. #170
    Herald of the Titans Tikaru's Avatar
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    DPS meters are nothing more than tools.

    If someone with a hammer is hitting other people with it, do you blame the hammer or the idiot holding it?

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Play a game that doesn't support DPS meters and you'll see how that changes the whole feel of group content. When something goes wrong, people don't blame the DPS. They focus on the real problems, which in most situations are things like coordination, bad planning etc.
    this is a true statement. games with no meters are quite relaxing and much more team/cooperation oriented. it gets old sometimes, though. Sometimes you long for the days of pewpewtopthemeterslookatme. i was always obsessed with my dps and i was always on top, no matter which class/spec i played. it's an addiction.

  12. #172
    It would've helped a lot if OP linked his damage done or DPS recount, now we don't know how bad he actually was in that run. Every new DPS can do atleast 40k.

    I usually don't mind low DPS as long as they are atleast doing their best, and that we can kill the bosses in time. But if the player is simply lazy or afking half the time, I won't regret kicking him.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Play a game that doesn't support DPS meters and you'll see how that changes the whole feel of group content. When something goes wrong, people don't blame the DPS. They focus on the real problems, which in most situations are things like coordination, bad planning etc.
    Or you know the tank, the healer...

  14. #174
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    We can ban DPS meters, when we also ban stupid AFK-leeching-retards.

    Deal?

    I don't flame people doing 35K dps in greens/blues. But I do kick people doing that much in epics.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamburger View Post
    We'd have no community left..... Only 5-10% of the population are actual competent players.
    I think the number of competent player is higher than that, maybe even as high as 30-40%. But having competence does not validate ability, which is where time and dedication comes in. I was one of those people until about 18 or so months ago where i decided to really get more into my class, understanding different classes and how they interact in a raid environment. When you take out part two, time spent to delve into the game and your toon, only about 10% are left to perform at reasonably high levels (heroic raiding). And to take it one step further, under 5% are competing into the 'world' scene.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpioz View Post
    .... through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank...
    This is your issue, not a dps meter issue. If you can't beat the tank in a level 86 dungeon when you are almost 90.... wow. There is a entire set of crafted blue 415s and a reforge vendor who will get you enough preparedness to have the capacity of doing 20k+. The rest is how well you play your character...Sorry, but true.
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysaber View Post
    this is a true statement. games with no meters are quite relaxing and much more team/cooperation oriented. it gets old sometimes, though. Sometimes you long for the days of pewpewtopthemeterslookatme. i was always obsessed with my dps and i was always on top, no matter which class/spec i played. it's an addiction.
    Different games are different. Games which don't support addons or have combat logs have more runs which disintegrate in my experience when people reach a roadblock. It's true that WoW players use "kick that guy" as a solution too quickly but if we asking, which the OP is, should we get rid of tools which can improve our performance or just change the game so it's easier to hide bad play because people's feelings get hurt then I know which way I vote. At least in WoW finding a replacement, and another group for the kicked member, is fairly painless in comparison to these other games.

  18. #178
    Dreadlord Cuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktperry View Post
    Do you even play a ret pally? If i recall when i ding'd 90, i pretty much could do 20-28k on boss fights, going YOLO with all cd's in the book..
    Yes I have one. And while you dinged 90, OP was almost 90, aka 88-89. Not 90.
    And seriously if you can pull 20k, does it really matter if someone does 15k. 5k difference man, you're YOLOing here for real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpioz View Post
    I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances
    No. It isn't the meters fault you were kicked, it was the people who kicked you's fault that they're intolerable morons. I did about 20 heroics yesterday on the character you can see in my signature with my girlfriend and another friend ( MW monk and Disc priest) and often i would do 80% of the groups over all dps as an arms tank, with the MW being second, we kicked two people. A ret paladin who ninja'd a healer trinket and a warlock who ninja pulled, didn't soulstone, got us all killed and then didn't release and run back.

    Also, you can't just ban an entire addon some people actually do well at DPS in raids based around addons like that. If you put up a poll i'm sure it would be pretty 50/50 if the options were (do more dps with recount disabled) or (do more dps with recount enabled).

    TL;DR Blame the human not the addon. The addon doesn't kick you, humans do.

  20. #180
    It's like saying "Ban the guns" because it's obviously the guns kill people, not people kill people. /sarcasm

    But seriously, there is no problem with the meters. It's a problem with people. BAN THE PEOPLE.

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