Ban DPS Metres

[Deleted]

Back when I started, I sucked. People said that and I understood. I read guides and got better. Spending a few hours reading and practicing isn't that difficult compared to what you will gain from that

[marv333]

The meters are as good as people using them.

Many people using meters use them solely to improve themselves, testing better openers and different talents etc.

Surround yourself with not awful people, or use the meters how they were originally intended, bettering yourself so these people won't kick you.

Nope.

DPS meters are used by all top end progression raiding guilds because some fights are a pure DPS check / race (Heroic Spine, Heroic deathbringer , Festergut, Brutalus, Patchwerk etc..) and if you cant tell who is doing less dps than they should you can't replace them to progress / adress the issue.

[Shiira]

Threads like these are good for identifying players with an Elitist Mentality.

The "you must have X DPS or don't bother playing the game LOL" crowd is a disease in this game.

The elitist mentality has its place.

When I'm raiding heroic content everyone had better be performing.

I don't care about people underperforming in 5 mans and lfr, that isn't content that's aimed at or tuned for people who care about their performance.

[Deleted]

imo dont ban dps metres cus it wont help.

What they should really do is ban scrubs from playing this game.

That would be wonderful!

If I were to ban anything, I'd ban people with the kind of attitude this dude shows. But, then again, I'm not a self-righteous asshole so I'd just let them stay and ignore their sorry asses.

[Bryntrollian]

I used to run heroic dungeons just to carry those guys and always topped the dps as the tank.

[darkpower]

To OP: people have the right to kick you so that instead they get a better dps that wont hold them back.

4 people > you

Have fun having an infinite CD on the VTK button, then!

And to think people bitch about that CD being there! If the people who'd say "yes, I'd kick you, you scrubby noob! l2p" would have no CD to curtail that, we would never be able to run any LFD/R!

I think this thread just proves why the VTK CD is necessary!

Oh, and about class and DPS potential, didn't Blizz say something about PVP always gonna be unbalanced? How do you NOT think that some classes are not going to be up there in DPS potential in PvE, either? Noxxic has Frost Mages being on top of Max DPS in full 496 ilvl gear ( http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum ). Of course, this not depending on the gear an individual player has or how they enchanted/gemmed/reforged their gear (in other words, it's assuming that the gear was cared to according to the Simcrafts that they did). You can't say that all classes can do X DPS at any given time because you're not taking into account gear, player's understanding of the class, what they have to do during the fight (that person that can't get over 30k might be a melee that can't get close to a boss because the tank refuses to kite him out of bad shit on ground...something else never considered here), whatever.

You'll also have to consider that Blizz just did a huge patch and buffed/nerfed things (how many times are Warriors going to get nerfed before Blizz gives them a break?), so many players are trying to adjust to the changes to their classes, as well (and many of us didn't do jack shit on the PTR, mind you). If I'm only pulling 20k on my Fury warrior because I didn't realize that Blizz changed something that changed everything about the right rotation on Fury warriors, then that'll be something that I have to fix, but it's something that isn't going to wipe a group if I'm also following all the mechanics of the fight (I'm still contributing and pulling my weight at that point because I understand that I do 0k DPS if I'm dead, and 20k is better than none).

This is why, while important, you can't judge anyone solely on how much DPS that they're doing in a fight!

[Shiira]

I wouldn't put too much faith in numbers from noxxic.

[Terahertz]

I don't know about this topic. I see a lot of people saying that one who pulls 25k in a dungeon shouldn't be there. I don't exactly think that is a fair statement. Everyone has to start somewhere. And until blizzard just gives people gear that are adequate enough for grouped content without have to actually participate in that content to get the gear, there is not much one can do. I myself do pretty low dps on my warrior, and I don't think its fair to be criticized for that when I spend a lot of time reading forums and guides on how to better my game play. When an individual is doing all that they are capable of doing to try and better themselves there is no reason that anyone should try to belittle or judge that person. Besides, in a LFD, most occasions you don't know the person in that group. They don't know how much effort a player is or isn't putting in. Until they are actually certain how much effort is actually being put in, they have no room to judge someone based on their performance. Now, if a player is being voted to be kicked out because he's afking for parts of the fight or ignoring trivial mechanics of a fight that is different. But, if the other players notice that the person with low dps is keeping up with everyone, is standing out AOE or, avoiding damage that is avoidable, or just doing what he or she is supposed to on that fight he shouldn't be punished for trying his all.

You can buy a FULL set of ilvl 364 gear from a freaking vendor in jade forest. With such ilvl someone should EASILY do around the 20 to 30k DPS which is appropriate for lvl 85. You're also able tto get even higher ilvl gear when you're lvl 88 from a vendor, making it even easier to catch up. After that just do more quests in dread wastes and you'll be decked in 410-430 ilvl gear.

[Madmajix]

The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.

No the problem is a lack of patience for players that choose not to take the time to do a little research on the toon they play before Q'ing up to an 85-90 dungeon. When the OP says "here is my problem don't you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps" he is openly stating that he does not have the first clue what DPSing on his toon actually entails somthing as simple as a proper rotation can make all the difference in the world not to mention gems, enchants, reforging, etc.. The fact is there are allot of other options to increase dps not just gear and had the op taken the time to look at say Noxxic.com he would likely have had enough dps to not get kicked just from the knowledge he had on the workings of his toon. In my opion to label the players that do not want to take time out of their day to wipe/carry other players as "ass holes" seems to me the ass hole thing to do. that being said we all started somwhere and a gentle nudge in the right direction is far better than the group kick.

[Theodon]

People like you are the reason I rarely do random dungeons anymore. I'm sick of those damn elitists and their e-peen mania...

How is it unfair to expect people to make a run a little quicker by trying and not being a deadweight? Doing 15k DPS can only be from a lack of actually trying to play the toon well enough, as more than that is achievable very easily. Having reasonable standards isn't elitist behaviour. Elitist behaviour would be expecting everyone to be doing close to an individuals DPS, when that person is ilevel 500+

If you think it's acceptable to do that DPS then that is your opinion. Not everyone is going to be happy with the feeling that they are doing almost all of the work in the dungeon so you can benefit, and being upset because they aren't happy with it is a shitty attitude.

[Deleted]

If your DPS is that low, then it's because you're failing to use DPS Metres to improve your ability with your character.

[Garehn Vi-Brittania]

I'm not really sure how this went down, but if you were one of the people in dungeons doing 15k dps, then I totally understand why you got kicked and I would have voted yes too. People were doing 15k DPS two expansions ago... I don't expect people to come in there in quest greens and do 90k or something, but at least pull your weight instead of having 4 others just boosting you.

Agree^^. I pulled this much in ICC, gear scaling or not thats piss poor dps for a 90 even if you're in questing greens and blues.

[Worshaka]

Agree^^. I pulled this much in ICC, gear scaling or not thats piss poor dps for a 90 even if you're in questing greens and blues.

There was a 30% buff to your health and damage in ICC, but it was possible if you were very geared and were very good to put that sort of number without artificial help.

I'm not sure boasting or pointing out what was possible several expansions ago is constructive. The point is people use DPS meters poorly, but they are a great source of information. In today's heroic environment you might as well put them away... I actually was in a group recently where 2 of the DPS couldn't do much more than 5k, it involved a feral dps who thought it was fun to play in bear form. Point being (besides it taking longer than it should) we cleared the 5 man with very little difficulty. You're starting to find it difficult to come up with a valid argument about pulling your weight in those instances because I'm sure some tanks could solo them.

Where I get annoyed is the percieved lack of respect for other people's time. It's something that probably doesn't occur to the average player, perhaps they like spending their alloted wow time doing a 5man or whatever group activity it might be. Me on the other hand would like to get several things accomplished which means the time investment in a specific activity is important to me. So what annoyed me about the example above is a 15min instance took 30mins and I feel mytime in game is valuable and was being wasted by those who really didn't care about my time.

[Darthcullen]

If you're kicked for dps, it's your fault and you need to get better.

[adorich]

I've played other mmos that don't have dps meters. It's so frustrating to be in a dungeon and know that something is wrong, but not know what or how to fix it. Dps meters are a tool that tells us what's wrong and helps players improve.

People exploit the kick feature all the time. After seeing a 3 guildee group kick a player, I asked why. Their response, "he smelled." Removing dps meters wouldn't improve the wow community, it'd just make it harder for players to improve.

Being kicked is a terrible feeling. Sometimes you just have to que again and hope for a better group.

[Worshaka]

I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances

And just because I like to respond to the OP (especially after so many responses that get things off topic).

This really is an issue of degrees. As I pointed out I think players should respect the time investment of other players more than they currently do. If your DPS was low but resonable, then I think it's harsh. But in my example I had a feral dps who was thickheaded in that he wanted to be in bear form and his 5K dps was good enough as far as he was concerned. To me that's the point where I get annoyed... I didn't actually try to get him kicked, I just pushed on and did the instance but that's because I'm more tolerant than the average player.... I probably should have kicked him (or instigated a vote) because it did annoy me that this player gave no respect to my time investment.

Now DPS meters aren't the problem per se. It's how they are used. Why someone cares about dps in these ridiculously named heroic instances is beyond me. Sure my example above is an extreme case but as with most issues, focusing on less than 1% of the extreme cases is really detrimental to the topic. I use DPS meters to ensure my theory is put into practice for example, if I see someone really out performing me I analyse what they did so I may learn a trick or 2. I don't use them to boast to party members that my irrelevant heroic dps makes them less of a person.

[Monstercloud]

Banning DPS meters only hides poor performance, it doesn't magically make it go away. If you know you have comparatively low-performance and you're being kicked for it, then do your research, so the next time you get kicked, you know it's not because your DPS, it's because they were dicks.

[Jtbrig7390]

I personally don't care how low a person's dps is in a random. now if im doing LFR/World Boss and your under 20k dps I will get annoyed a little cause at that point you should be pulling at lease 30k dps "in my opinion"

I "before I quit" tanked and me personally in randoms I never cared what they pulled as long as they did there job and the run is smooth I'm happy.

People need to learn that some play for fun and don't look up things cause they rather learn it on there own. Kicking someone from a random due to low dps is just a jerk move plain and simple. LFR/World Boss's is one thing but in 5man's ya the elitist crap dose not belong there at all.

Joe blow shouldn't be kicked due to dps I do know that saving you that extra 1min of being in a raid is important and all but you made the choice to do a random dungeon with a group accpt what happen's after.

Personally even in LFR/World Boss's it dose not bug me unless we wipe due to enrage. if you want to beat a dungeon under 10mins or zerg LFR/world boss's do a guild run.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 02:36 AM ----------

Banning DPS meters only hides poor performance, it doesn't magically make it go away. If you know you have comparatively low-performance and you're being kicked for it, then do your research, so the next time you get kicked, you know it's not because your DPS, it's because they were dicks.

Welcome to randoms if you want a perfect run do it with friends or a guild.

/End Thread.

[TheDangerZone]

I haven't been kicked nor have I kicked someone out for bad performance, the point of dungeons is gearing up, and barring extremely poor overall performance (not necessarily DPSing, mind you) I believe that kicking is unwarranted.

Whenever someone starts kicking because subpar DPS performance, I call them out. I have had uppity tanks quitting over that mid fight, but my turtle can hold its threat! (at least until a new tank shows up) There HAS to be some leeway for learning, for trial and error. How is new people going to learn?.

I have shorter temper with crappy tanks though; if they can't hold threat for shit, they have to go back and check the basics. You can just DPS, but you can't just Tank; you have to learn it first or you wipe with your incompetence.

[Monstercloud]

Welcome to randoms if you want a perfect run do it with friends or a guild.

Oh look, it's "that reply". You know, the one that doesn't have any reading comprehension, and pulls out the same diatribe as if I said, "BLURKA BLURKA BAD DPS = KICK!", and finish with a smug "Case Closed/I showed him" remark.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

If you know you have comparatively low-performance

Now, tell me. Where does it imply that I expect perfection, or above average performance? If your performance is comparative to your gear, and you know it, then there's no reason to be kicked for said performance in randoms. However, if you get kicked for your bad performance, and you just fall back on, "Obviously, it's other people's fault." when you have no understanding of your spec/class, then you're a child..