Season 13 discussion & Warlock PvP Guide.

[Deleted]

What they should do is at least buff the syphon life glyph a bit and ad a necrotic strike effect to UA backlash/corruption. Or if they really feel like redesigning (since they do it with KJC) finally fix the SB:SS issue.

[WarlockJack]

Well my pvp concerns have been realized.

As affliction, people are waiting for you to hit KJC and then they'll stun you so you waste all of it. So you HAVE to use UR just to move and cast. Pay attention, I HAVE to press 2 buttons AND waste a valuable defensive cooldown now to feel like I used to for 15 seconds.

Every time I use MG to actually 'hurt' someone they immediately out-distance me and then LoS me. I cannot kill a healer anymore. They have a HUGE advantage of being able to LoS->Heal. They become immune to fear way before I ever get to put them down. Even when I do get out in the open to use KJC, it still isn't enough time to put down a druid/paladin/priest. I have no idea how to be useful to the team like that.

Its a nightmare and I'm really unhappy... I ONLY like playing affliction and unless they make other changes to compensate, I'd probably have to drop from arenas to rated BGs just to feel useful at all.

I honestly believe they didn't think about affliction pvp at ALL with this change. Not one bit. Unless they're closely watching all the effects of what this change does to see a 'worst case scenario' before they put in a real fix, this is going to break so many things. I can't even believe they'd do something THIS drastic in the MIDDLE of an expansion. I don't get it.

[Rayaleith]

These are expected consequences. I really believe that they will fix this somehow. The problems you mention -and experienced - are so obvious that it would be at least scandalous if bliz would not do anything. We have ~3months till 5.4 go live (my estimation). I think we have time.

[Gohzerlock]

I have been playing a warlock since beta so I've seen ALL the changes to warlocks over the years. This one is pretty damn clueless. Did they even pay attention to how its going to effect pvp for affliction especially?

It seems obvious to me that Blizzard doesn't care for KJC and I suspect if they went back in time, they probably wouldn't have implemented it. That's alright with me. Its their game.

However, especially in pvp, our current state will get crushed without it.

1. Dots don't hit hard enough without MG to damage people. We all know that. There are quite a few situations I've been in where I can't win unless I keep MG up all the time. Having to stand still with a giant beam pointing to me in order to do damage without EVER moving is very hurtful.

Then, when a melee starts face-punching me, how am I supposed to make a gap AND hurt them when I have to stop and channel to do any damage?

Its not like we're getting more survivability... oh wait... its the opposite. +10% damage to us in this patch too! WEEEEEEEEE!

2. If I can't channel MG AND run all the time, I will lose to EVERY SINGLE Pillar-humping healer in arena. Affliction warlocks already have a hard enough time with healers. How am I supposed to kill someone when my dots don't hurt them enough AND they keep running around a pillar LoSing me? I don't think I'll be able to. I currently put on burning rush if they move fast or CoEX them and keep on their ass until they die or move out into the open. Now, I HAVE to stop every time to damage them... after 1 second, they'll be around the corner again...

3. I do not need or want another button to press. Affliction warlocks have an absurd amount of buttons to press. Do I have room for 1 more? Probably... but my fingers have already invented several new knots by playing Aff.

4. Fel flame is basically all we can do when moving... and it RESETS the only thing that makes my dots hit harder... the second I press fel flame, my dots go down in damage.

And there's quite a few reasons people have touched upon so I wont go into them.

So what should we do?

Well, if Blizzard doesn't care for KJC... if its too unbalanced and overpowered to everyone... then just pull the talent and replace it with something else.

Re-balance the entire class with an emphasis on affliction adjustment so it isn't really weak when moving.

Problem solved.

Do I know specifically how to do that?

Maybe change MG to put a debuff on an enemy for XX seconds that increases dot damage?
Maybe delete MG and re-insert Shadowbolt spam? (lul)
Maybe merge Drain Life and Maelific grasp?

I'm not sure without some hard thinking.

But that is Blizzard's job. If that is way too hard, they probably shouldn't be adjusting a lvl 90 talent THAT severely in the MIDDLE of an expansion with no revisions to anything else in the class.

The truth is, they've made quite a few nerfs to us BECAUSE of KJC and now they're going to nerf KJC into the ground WITHOUT restoring the previous damage that they TOOK from us. Its going to leave us in a miserable state at best if things go live as-is.

BUT it is very early on PTR so anything can happen... we'll see. O_o

So much this. ^

infracted for minor spam.

[WarlockJack]

Did you see the blue post now?

"Currently in the internal build, you're able to cast haunt on the move".

Are. They. Mentally. Retarded?

Nobody gives a shit if they have to stop to cast Haunt. Warlocks HAVE to cast MG for the FULL DURATION on the move to DPS another player.

Do they not understand their own game?

[Deleted]

"Currently in the internal build, you're able to cast haunt on the move".

inb4 u are buffed appropriately

[WarlockJack]

inb4 u are buffed appropriately

You missed the point. Haunt is ok to cast when standing still. MG is the one we have to cast while moving.

[Deleted]

You missed the point. Haunt is ok to cast when standing still. MG is the one we have to cast while moving.

sorry for my bad writing, my point was posted as a sarcasm to all the mages and palas that will say that this is a buff. damn my english sucks

[smooth_c]

The idea of MG as a filler as of MoP was just retarded from the start... I liked Shadow Bolt, but NOO, affl locks had to have some kind of "unique" spell just for them. Stupid design.

[Deleted]

The idea of MG as a filler as of MoP was just retarded from the start... I liked Shadow Bolt, but NOO, affl locks had to have some kind of "unique" spell just for them. Stupid design.

"unique" by turning the only warlock spec that has always felt unique into a shadow priest.

I've quietly grumbled about missing shadowbolt since MOP was launched, this whole KJC faff on and how much trouble they've had balancing us this entire expansion due to MG has turned what I thought was just me being nostalgic and liking the "feel" of shadowbolt into thinking that I might have actually been right in thinking it was a problem from a balancing point.

Can't say I expect them to remove it though, admitting that your core filler idea was a mistake right after a revamp would give a bad message unless they've spent a fair bit of time trying to fix it first, but I hope they'll eventually go back to SB filler.

[WarlockJack]

"unique" by turning the only warlock spec that has always felt unique into a shadow priest.

I've quietly grumbled about missing shadowbolt since MOP was launched, this whole KJC faff on and how much trouble they've had balancing us this entire expansion due to MG has turned what I thought was just me being nostalgic and liking the "feel" of shadowbolt into thinking that I might have actually been right in thinking it was a problem from a balancing point.

Can't say I expect them to remove it though, admitting that your core filler idea was a mistake right after a revamp would give a bad message unless they've spent a fair bit of time trying to fix it first, but I hope they'll eventually go back to SB filler.

Its 100% true. Ok, so you gave shadowbolt to Demo... just give us the same damn thing for Affliction, call it something different and tack some gimmick dot-related thing to it like Firebolt has... Then adjust dots to their proper damage. Leave felflame and haunt alone. Delete KJC completely and replace it with something else as useless as our other lvl90 talents. Problem solved.

OR

Just faff about with haunt, fel flame, mg and KJC for the next month until they no longer resemble anything of what they were, they're all completely broken and everyone is pissed off for ruining their entire rotation and play-style in the MIDDLE of an expansion.

...

...

Blizzard: "Yeah, lets aim for #2. That sounds good."

[Deleted]

For Affliction specifically, the developers are lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving it into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. They still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

^blue post

if the dots get a good boost I am fine with the KJC nerf

[Werst]

The fel flame thing is going to be a pvp mess. Just give FF a damage bump, a minor glyph to refresh or not refresh dots, and let it roll. What is the facination with making locks cast constantly in a pvp climate that is incredibly hard on locks using anything but instants since we are so easily trained by melee. Especially regarding interrupts which already force aff into a nearly 0 casting environment. Haunt for MG damage sources is fine. Though shard regen vs players might need a specific bump.

The MF hate is just excessive BS. ESPECIALLY now that RoF for destro was "fixed". Not sure where they think destro is going to get its damage from that its losing when its already running into scaling problems this tier...but that isn't even on their radar. Making more aoe burst centric is just going to make it harder to balance. Maybe make MF baseline 15 yard aoe with a smaller dmg bonus for the on use? Locks had 15 yard baseline aoe for years...had it axed to 10y in favor of homogenization.

[Deleted]

Locks had 15 yard baseline aoe for years...had it axed to 10y in favor of homogenization.

It was axed partially because the 15 y * 500% increase from MF was retardedly huge, though I don't expect the original nerf to be reverted when the reason for the it is being nerfed.

[xskarma]

Since this thread has seemed to have missed it (or you are discussing it in other threads) I'd thought to at least copy the relevant bit over to this thread as well, since casted Fel Flame was a PvP concern.

And another update, a GC tweet, relayed through the official forums from here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=138#2753

We're going to try keeping Fel Flame as an instant, slightly buffed, with no DoT refeshing. Intent wasn't to nerf Fel Flame on top of nerfing Kil'Jaeden's Cunning. As long as locks don't become backpedaling Fel Flame spamming machines, we think this change should work.

[Bonkura]

thank god. now we just need to get them make a glyph for us to keep the original fel flame optional.

[Deleted]

thank god. now we just need to get them make a glyph for us to keep the original fel flame optional.

syphon life, UA and CoEx are all pretty much mandatory in the current melee favoured meta, they should at least make it minor glyph

[Werst]

The best way to handle FF dot renewal is have a minor glyph that turns it on/off. Only other change FF might need is a mana cost reduction for destro. Other than that its now in a good spot.

For aff PVP I'd like to see MG, DL, and DS get the hunter shot treatment in that they become uninterruptable. Trying to balance spread pressure from just dots (pre MoP model) with the present (dots as debuffs for a channeled filler) just isn't going to balance well. Its also insanely easy to train an afflock who can neither escape like demo or heal like destro. Also, pretty sure with battle fatigue that DL is a loss but I'd have to run the math on it to be sure. I'd settle for the coex glyph to be 50% but its a secondary effect of enfeeblement now.

For dest if they aren't going to let CB hit hard it needs to be either mobile, uninterruptable, or instant at 3x backdraft. Sorry but if you haven't tested it lately it hits for pathetic amount for how hard it is to execute and certainly compared to what other "burst" specs toss around in the same timeframe. Also wouldn't mind seeing an immolate glyph that removes the upfront damage but lets it be instant.

Demo is more complicated...lacking the burst to drop someone or the pressure to rot several. The MF change is also going to hurt demo in pvp quite a bit in both pressure and DF generation. Its probably time to start treating chaoswave like CB or Soulfire. Always crits, dmg scales w' crit, give it a dot when used w' gosac, and revert the earlier dmg nerf somewhat. The problem never was 2x non crit chaoswaves...it was the double crit RNG (which was sub 2% chance) once every 2 mins. The felguard could stand to move a bit faster baseline. Most of the time in pvp he's slowly gimping after whatever you want him on. Demo could probably stand to generate an imp and get a DF refund when doom is dispelled. Possibly also a higher DF generation rate vs player targets depending on how hard the MF nerf hits the spec.

[WarlockJack]

Looks like they're including MG, SB and INC exempt from KJC and keeping KJC passive now. This is WAYYYYYYYYY better than I thought they would set it up.

If they keep Fel flame as an instant and they add Drain Soul to the list of uninhibited spells for KJC, I'll shut my damn mouth. That seems fair to me.

[Deleted]

Looks like they're including MG, SB and INC exempt from KJC and keeping KJC passive now. This is WAYYYYYYYYY better than I thought they would set it up.

Where are you getting this from?

Kil'jaeden's Cunning You can cast and channel while moving. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 1.5 min cooldown. for 10 sec. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 60 sec cooldown.

Latest changes still indicate it's an on use ability?

Edit: Nevermind, Lore's made a blue post

Seems the snare is being removed, which frankly baffles me - it seemed like a good deal even with the snare, but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.