Throne of Thunder - World First Heroic Thread!

[Deleted]

So Twins 11 boss ...got killed with difference by the 10 boss by 2 hour's?

One might think this means paragon is very good at killing bosses.

[-Azax-]

blah blah blah 10 vs 25 blah blah blah, honestly, stop whining about it ffs.

[purefury]

they can have 1guy extending 10/12 or 1guy 8/12. then the rest farms 7bosses, joins 8/12 extended, and joins 10/12, skipping the hardest bosses while getting almost all possible gear.

[Porimlys]

So Twins 11 boss ...got killed with difference by the 10 boss by 2 hour's? That's what? 4/5 Tries?. The 11 boss in this tier on hc...need's 4 tries>? Gt.fo...
Im raiding normals.
But when we switch from 25-man to a 2x 10-man and all our kills are ..1 min...Faster.. ................Sorry but f this....

It's trying to communicate :x

[yeto]

they can have 1guy extending 10/12 or 1guy 8/12. then the rest farms 7bosses, joins 8/12 extended, and joins 10/12, skipping the hardest bosses while getting almost all possible gear.

well bosses are not hard for guilds like them the 2nd time thay kill them, thay have a full reset of gear more then last time - and thay will need the gear form them to better on the last 2.

[cynicalz]

I find it funny that about 90+% of people just don't realize just how insanely good paragon actually is...best guild in the world for a while now and they're not stepping down

[thigan]

they can have 1guy extending 10/12 or 1guy 8/12. then the rest farms 7bosses, joins 8/12 extended, and joins 10/12, skipping the hardest bosses while getting almost all possible gear.

Once you accept one heroic lock you can't change to other, in this case, when they kill the first boss in heroic, you can't add the guy that is saved

[Dranged]

if it was any other guild i'd agree, but paragon showing they can piss all over method and BL for tier after tier on 25man, if paragon take world first they are the best raid team period.

Last tier Paragon did 25m they got pissed on themselves - Dragon Soul. Not one single world first iirc. So it was pretty clear they were on a decline already in cataclysm. What better way to hide this fact than to go 10m? It is pretty obvious that if Paragon were still doing 25m today they would probably still be on Durumu or smth.

[Gouca]

So Twins 11 boss ...got killed with difference by the 10 boss by 2 hour's? That's what? 4/5 Tries?. The 11 boss in this tier on hc...need's 4 tries>? Gt.fo...
Im raiding normals.
But when we switch from 25-man to a 2x 10-man and all our kills are ..1 min...Faster.. ................Sorry but f this....

Is it our fault if it is simply the best guild in the world since Anub'Arak? You can't understant how good they are before, let's say you end up in their LFR run. I was running DS with Devai and Baltha back in DS, and they did 2,5 times the DPS of the second ones after them, being great in terms of gear & progress.

My guess is that Paragon will run normal-modes to get quite a lot of tier-set-bonuses, and get back on Lei Shen by extending the heroic save. They have been so close (4%), and you see from WoWprogress that they are 5-10 item levels behind the BL & Method in gear.

[Deleted]

Blizzard made a very bad job with Twins making it a joke on 10man and an impossible encounter in 25man cuz of enrage.

[Dranged]

the best 25man guild down sized to the best 10man, and still takes world first clearly neither is really much harder than the other, just paragon TOO STRONG for anyone else.

Best 25m guild? This is the rankings from last time they did 25m.

1 즐거운공격대 (25) KR-Kargath 8/8 (H)
2 Stars (25) TW-Crystalpine Stinger 8/8 (H)
3 In extremis (10) KR-Norgannon 8/8 (H)
4 Blood Legion (25 recruiting) US-Illidan 8/8 (H)
5 DREAM Paragon (25) EU-Lightning's Blade 8/8 (H)

They were clearly the best 25m guild in the world once upon a time, no one would ever question that. But they lost their top spot in Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Yes because Spine was dependant on the amount of Legendaries you had, the main reason they left is because they couldn't compete on that basis as their talent pool isnt large enough

[Lamora]

Best 25m guild? This is the rankings from last time they did 25m.

Remember that they got themselves banned for a week as well. Obviously their own fault, but the end results probably reflect that more than their skill.

[Deleted]

Best 25m guild? This is the rankings from last time they did 25m.

1 즐거운공격대 (25) KR-Kargath 8/8 (H)
2 Stars (25) TW-Crystalpine Stinger 8/8 (H)
3 In extremis (10) KR-Norgannon 8/8 (H)
4 Blood Legion (25 recruiting) US-Illidan 8/8 (H)
5 DREAM Paragon (25) EU-Lightning's Blade 8/8 (H)

They were clearly the best 25m guild in the world once upon a time, no one would ever question that. But they lost their top spot in Cataclysm.

And how many of those 5 guilds were banned for the first week, thus, not getting invaluable loot for Spine which was gear % class stacking boss.

Also Korean and Taiwanese servers had 2 Firelands lockouts / week right? Pretty easy to get full raid of arcane mages with legendary staffs for spine, which really was to only block in that instance.

TL;DR Skill wasn't the mos timportant factor in DS race

[Krachaboras]

Best 25m guild? This is the rankings from last time they did 25m.

1 즐거운공격대 (25) KR-Kargath 8/8 (H)
2 Stars (25) TW-Crystalpine Stinger 8/8 (H)
3 In extremis (10) KR-Norgannon 8/8 (H)
4 Blood Legion (25 recruiting) US-Illidan 8/8 (H)
5 DREAM Paragon (25) EU-Lightning's Blade 8/8 (H)

They were clearly the best 25m guild in the world once upon a time, no one would ever question that. But they lost their top spot in Cataclysm.

They lost it becouse got banned for ds lfr exploit as meny other guilds did.

[Deleted]

One can argue that the LFR ban costed them the world first in T 13 and not the fact that stopped being the best.
That ban was 8 days long, calculated to last excactly 1 heroic raiding reset.
They also lost all gear won that sinfull week where noumerous 25s exploited LFR.
So...i cant claim if they would be able to defeat KIN raiders, but they would be awfully close.

They did stop being the best 25 while DS was on farm status though.
During that time they lost 12-14 core members according to their own statements and although they were managing to find replacements those replacments were simply not good enough to fill the shoes of those that were stopping hardcore raiding.

In any case, their call, to downsize to 10 is not something that only they did.

You see that list from Dragon Soul with <In Extremis> at no3? Check ICC 25 no4 Guild at wow progress and a few thousand others...

Pitty that there is a system active that allows for such a thing to happen even at top level.
You see, -12 ppl from a 32 ppl raiding roster means that 20 ppl are still there ready to raid as always.
By picking 12-13 ppl (actually 11 since one guy was actually from the Dragon Soul Recruits) while living the othe 8-9 without a raid?

Horrible...just horrible that such a thing can happen and keeps happening even today, 3 years after the big slaughter of 25s.

[Deleted]

That DS race.... worst tier ever.
I can totally say Paragon lost to BL because the ban was well deserved, but the double lockout for the asians made the whole thing ridicolous. Good to see that west and asia are now separate rankings on wowprogress.

[Thirstblood]

I find it funny that about 90+% of people just don't realize just how insanely good paragon actually is...best guild in the world for a while now and they're not stepping down

They may be the best for 10 man but 25 mans, they are on 5th.. why? Exploit HAPPENED man.. EXPLOIT HAPPENED... THEY HAD TO! >=(

[Deleted]

I say Lei Shen is going down. Paragon is going to make it today. They still have a whole day to do so. (Ignoring pathetic 10 vs 25 fights)

[Dranged]

Remember that they got themselves banned for a week as well. Obviously their own fault, but the end results probably reflect that more than their skill.

With such reasoning Ensidia was the real winner of the ICC race, since they were banned and also missed out on a HC lockout. No, if you get yourself banned for cheating you have to suffer the consequences, and not use it as an excuse for losing.

Also, yes Paragon lost lots of core members between DS and MoP, but hey they weren't the only ones. All guilds lose ppl. Good ppl. Core ppl. What you do is recruit more. Imo Paragon's real flaw nowadays is their stubbornness to only recruit Finnish players. It used to be a strength but now I dare say it's holding them back. Recruiting from all around Europe seems to be working fine for Method for example, and it would for Paragon too if only they weren't so stuck up.