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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorondil View Post
    Except for the fact they [Paragon] farmed ToT 25m normal last week so they would have max gear, any TRUE 10m raid will never ever have this much gear after 1 week of 10m clearing.
    Source? Seems to me they only did 10man. Wowprogress may be wrong of course.

  2. #202
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzabooey View Post
    Source? Seems to me they only did 10man. Wowprogress may be wrong of course.
    They did 3 10m runs.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    This basically. It really frustrates me when people suggest that 25 man is easier BECAUSE of that reason. It's just stupid. Math is hard.

    Don't get me wrong I do not hate on 10 mans. In fact I like 10 mans much better than 25 mans, but I do not agree with spreading useless, wrong and biassed facts which are so wrong from a common sense standpoint. It frustrates me. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Taiphon View Post
    Single mistakes are more forgiving in 25, but two and a half times more mistakes are made.

    (In practice even more, because if you do 10m with a 25m group, the 15 worst players get benched.)
    Also need to account for the fact that its easier to make a mistake in 25 man as an individual player. In the raid, because there is more stuff to dodge and such. (e.g., 4 stone guardians instead of 3, triple the stuff being thrown at the ground, more people you have to be aware of, etc.). I think most people can't wrap their head around the concept.

  4. #204
    At least Vodkadus is as bad at kill screenshots as our guild -_-;

  5. #205
    This is off-topic but was there this many 10 vs 25 debate in T11, 12 and 13? In T14 there atleast was this debate without thunderforged gear etc.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazih View Post
    Let's have the "Ithink10m25mareequal/10mdoesntcount/Ithink10mcountsmore/Ithinktheyreseparateraces/25mdoesntcount/whocaresaboutwfrace" thing going on like last tiers coz that was so productive.
    Or don't.
    What else do we talk about? It will probably be a bit before the EU guilds start downing Council.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    What else do we talk about? It will probably be a bit before the EU guilds start downing Council.
    1. Get back to work

    2. if no job, get one

  8. #208

  9. #209
    Deleted
    Method 3/13!

  10. #210
    Deleted
    method decided to kill council on 10man according to wowprogress.

  11. #211
    as several have said before hand, thats likely due to not enough members logging out and updating the armoury

  12. #212
    No, it's just a bug with wowprogress. It'll be fixed pretty soon.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekkiem View Post
    1. Get back to work

    2. if no job, get one
    1. I work at night...

    2. It's 10:15am...
    Last edited by Amsden; 2013-03-13 at 03:21 PM.

  14. #214
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    I personally look at them as separate races. With how different the 2 types are, trying to combine them is silly imo. Getting WF for either size is still extremely impressive.
    You are probably right, and the majority of playerbase has a similar opinion, I suppose, basically because everyone is smart enough to understand that's impossible to tune an encounter to be the same difficulty in both 10 and 25m, let alone a whole tier.
    But what if someone asks you "who got T14 WF?" the answer is Paragon, and that's a fact... It doesn't matter if you think the races are separate or 10m is not "the challenge": first is first.

    On a different matter: looks like the 3rd and the 6th bosses are the hardest to beat right now, I see some kind of pattern right there.
    Last edited by mmoc65ba707d63; 2013-03-13 at 03:29 PM.

  15. #215
    Deleted
    Method already on place 3, only 5 hours after eu server came up they are on 3/13

  16. #216
    Sorry to burst the 25 man bandwagon but ToT fights so far are way way way way way harder on 10 than 25. Council is pretty much impossible for 10 man guilds at this point(incredibly overtuned. Maybe intentional?). Even Horridon is probably the most difficult fight to date. Having literally your entire raid (including tanks) with ghost dinos is absolutely unreal.

    Proof is in the pudding. Only one US 10 man guild was able to complete Horridon. And even DREAM Paragon (up to the time of this post) have been stuck on council for FOUR hours.

    Not that I'm complaining. Having a difficult tier is what everyone wanted and what everyone got. I'm loving it so far. Just really hate when people rag on 10 man raiding as if its less of a challenge.

  17. #217
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    method down council relatively fast compared to blood legion and exodus, looking good for them! Long way to go though.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    Sorry to burst the 25 man bandwagon but ToT fights so far are way way way way way harder on 10 than 25. Council is pretty much impossible for 10 man guilds at this point(incredibly overtuned. Maybe intentional?). Even Horridon is probably the most difficult fight to date. Having literally your entire raid (including tanks) with ghost dinos is absolutely unreal.

    Proof is in the pudding. Only one US 10 man guild was able to complete Horridon. And even DREAM Paragon (up to the time of this post) have been stuck on council for FOUR hours.

    Not that I'm complaining. Having a difficult tier is what everyone wanted and what everyone got. I'm loving it so far. Just really hate when people rag on 10 man raiding as if its less of a challenge.
    This is why considering 10 and 25 in the same race ends in sadness and failure.
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  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    Sorry to burst the 25 man bandwagon but ToT fights so far are way way way way way harder on 10 than 25. Council is pretty much impossible for 10 man guilds at this point(incredibly overtuned. Maybe intentional?). Even Horridon is probably the most difficult fight to date. Having literally your entire raid (including tanks) with ghost dinos is absolutely unreal.

    Proof is in the pudding. Only one US 10 man guild was able to complete Horridon. And even DREAM Paragon (up to the time of this post) have been stuck on council for FOUR hours.

    Not that I'm complaining. Having a difficult tier is what everyone wanted and what everyone got. I'm loving it so far. Just really hate when people rag on 10 man raiding as if its less of a challenge.
    I would argue it has alot more to do with ilvl. Your guilds ilvl average is 514 where as BL and Exodus's ilvl was 520 and 519 respectively when they killed Horridon. 6-7 ilvls is a huge deal. Likewise Paragons ilvl is only 515 so that obviously is a factor as well. 25 mans get the better chance to drop Thunderforged items plus multiple 25man clears to funnel the Thunderforged helped boost their ilvl quite a bit more.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by bcc View Post
    Sorry to burst the 25 man bandwagon but ToT fights so far are way way way way way harder on 10 than 25. Council is pretty much impossible for 10 man guilds at this point(incredibly overtuned. Maybe intentional?). Even Horridon is probably the most difficult fight to date. Having literally your entire raid (including tanks) with ghost dinos is absolutely unreal.

    Proof is in the pudding. Only one US 10 man guild was able to complete Horridon. And even DREAM Paragon (up to the time of this post) have been stuck on council for FOUR hours.

    Not that I'm complaining. Having a difficult tier is what everyone wanted and what everyone got. I'm loving it so far. Just really hate when people rag on 10 man raiding as if its less of a challenge.
    That's going to be a brick wall for most 10 man guilds, as 10 man normals are easier than 25 man. Making the gap in 10 man that big between normal modes and heroics will just cause a huge amount of frustration.

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