10m Council Stacking?

[Drikkink]

My group just got to council tonight and got a good number of pulls in on them, but we didn't make it a full empower cycle. Our RL is proposing we try stacking them all up, cleaving and ignoring the heal-y adds. Anyone have any success with a strat like this?

[Deleted]

Focus on dealing with each mechanics, if you're struggling with that fight the last thing you want to do is do it the hard way. I doubt you (or anyone) would have the gear for a straight zerg cleave anyway.

Do it right and it's a striaght forward fight, especially with the HP Nerf just gone in.

(assuming this is normal)

[Reyzzz]

You dont ignore healing adds since they have ~1m hp and heal for ~4m, just make 2 rangeds switch to it

[eranwe]

You can have a dk tanking the priest, can slow the add and take it back with the taunt, have a dps ranged help killing the add. Distribute your raid in 4 positions, Making a square. The 2 tanks in the opposite vertex and the ranged+heals in groups of 3 in each vertex left, so they can join when frostbite is active. This way, Kazra will only charge towards this 2 ranged/heal groups in the same line.


tank with priest................................................Heal+2dps
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dps+2heal...................................................... Tank+melee with Frost King+Sul

Also, pop bl and try to burn Sul as much as you can. Have it tanked together with Frost King and always have 1 melee dps and a tank on him for interrupts. When Frost king is nearly 50-60 power, swicht to him. When Kazra is empowered, nuke him and if your dps is not enough (our wasn't), have the melee dps in Sul damage him when he is 60-75 energy. When priest is empowered, stack her with Frost King, and Sul and try to down sul below 25% hp before taking empowered out.
Now, Sul is empowered and only have <25% hp. Nuke him. When the little adds spawn, tell the healers to move to Sul's tank. Pop cds, everything you have in this phase. You'll have to practice this phase a little, because of the adds spawning. But if u kill Sul, the fight its over. Dps the empowered boss and loot .

[minkage]

We did exactly the strat you describe and it worked fantastic.

The AoE absolutely outpaces the healing and increases the raid DPS by a tonne. I have a feeling this strat will catch on.

With so much target switching going on our DPS was looking pretty meh on this fight, especially with only 1 really strong multidotter on the team. After we went the AoE route our DPS more then doubled for some people. I also asking if we could 2 heal it + AoE zerg to kill Sul purely through cleave before his empower but RL wanted to stick to 3 heals for consistency.

[Deleted]

I thought about this as well with the new healthnerf. It would make it much easier to execute the burn sul strat, i think.
Adds have 2 mio hp and heal for 4 mio. Then think about the dps loss of not having bosses stacked and wasting tank dps that way, AND target switching - deathgrips and stuns as well.

How does this sound as a strat?
Stack bosses up and pop bloodlust. Focus the dps on Sul and get him to around 60%.
Have everyone besides a melee dps (feral druid in my case) switch to Frost King. That melee dps and the tank try to interrupt most of the sand bolts.
Have your tanks switch Frost King at around 12 stacks. (No dps loss by moving him)
Dps the posessed target from then on while throwing excess dps on sul. Have your one melee dps on sul still.

[Libertarian]

Try to stack them all up except marli. Only pull marli over when empowered, and move her away when it is about to go off.

The whole idea behind the fight is to do as much damage as possible to another boss, while getting the empowered down 25% before it reaches 100. If you look at the mechanics on heroic, this confirms that. You want as few jumps as possible. If you only focus the boss empowered, you will get more. Our first kill we didn't have sul do his empower once pre-nerf.

[Sheridanjohn]

We used a stack and kill tactic, lusted off the bat and burnt sul down to about 60-70% before switching to malakk and burning him down. Our 2 melee dps and tanks tunneled sul apart from when the rolling dude was overloading then we had melee switch as they had good defensives to help us burn him. By not purely burning the enraged target we killed sul before he enraged. If you can cleave greater then the heals on a third target (I think it is like 3 million) then it would probably be worth it as you do not have to target switch either. Was an easy mode kill for us

[rated]

If you got good cleaves you can pretty much ignore the empowered frost king in the beginning and just burn/cleave sul down. Have a healing CD ready (if needed) if you get 100 dark energy for a few seconds. You can effectively do this with The priest too allowing a lot more DPS to be put on sul while letting cleaves deal with 2 of the empowered bosses. The tank with frost king does not need the OT to taunt off as I found even if I happen to get to 15 stacks the damage is easily healed through.

If you get sul empowered (should only happen once at most) have all DPS focus Sul only and allow one or both of the tanks to pick up adds and kite/dps them down. Once Sul's empowered is broken (or he's dead) DPS can finish up any remaining adds. By now Sul is either dead or less than 5%. Once he's dead the rest of the fight is a lot easier.

[Subbversion]

Kazrajin will reflect damage and wipe your raid, no? Also this seems to overcomplicate an already-simple fight as is...

[omnibishop]

Unless you have a tremendous amount of dps, the heals from stacking will be too much to burn through efficiently. This is what my guild did and it works great.

Heroism at start, all dps on Sul. When the first spirit appears, burn it down then dps switches to Malakk. Have Malakk stacked on Sul for AoE/cleave damage. When Kaz empowers, all dps switches to him. When a dps gets low on health, they switch back to Sul for a few seconds, then back on Kaz and repeat until he is no longer empowered. Stack Malakk on Mar'li when she empowers for some extra damage. Have half your dps stay on Sul and the other half on Mar'li. If you do it right, Sul will die before he even empowers, meaning you never get the Living Sand and makes the fight ten times easier. Sul's tank is free to help dps and off-tank Malakk when needed. After that, just keep the lowest boss away from Mar'li, keep burning the spirit adds, and killing the empowered boss. If one boss is low enough, just kill it before switching.

[Deleted]

Actually, you do not need a huge amount of dps to make stacking effective. The added cleave is not that far from outdpsing the heals.

It is also very possible to stun the spirit the same second it spawns, and keep it stun locked while killing it, just rotate stuns.

Do not think people should disregard this tactic that quickly.

[Kheirn]

On 10m, the add has 1.3m HP and heals for ~3.5m HP, meaning that you effectively need to outdps 2.2m damage. With Loa Spirit coming every 30 seconds (or is it 35?) that's ~62-70k more DPS that you need. Your raid dps can easily increase by that amount by making it easier to cleave and reducing target switching.

Do the math, then criticize.

[Deleted]

On 10m, the add has 1.3m HP and heals for ~3.5m HP, meaning that you effectively need to outdps 2.2m damage. With Loa Spirit coming every 30 seconds (or is it 35?) that's ~62-70k more DPS that you need. Your raid dps can easily increase by that amount by making it easier to cleave and reducing target switching.

Do the math, then criticize.

Not to mention that you lose dps while switching aswell.

[Drikkink]

Update on this. My group tried this strat and found that ignoring adds made the fight completely trivial. Sul died BEFORE he empowered the first time. Fight is a joke if that happens.

[omnibishop]

On 10m, the add has 1.3m HP and heals for ~3.5m HP, meaning that you effectively need to outdps 2.2m damage. With Loa Spirit coming every 30 seconds (or is it 35?) that's ~62-70k more DPS that you need. Your raid dps can easily increase by that amount by making it easier to cleave and reducing target switching.

Do the math, then criticize.

Blessed Loa Spirit: Summons a Blessed Loa Spirit which moves to the councilor with the lowest health and heals them for 10% of their maximum health. Every 30 seconds. My math says this would be for about 7.5M heal. Over the course of 30 seconds you would need another 200k dps to make it worth it. I'm not saying stack and burn isn't impossible to pull off, but factoring in all the incoming damage to the raid, it doesn't seem efficient.

Besides, if Blizzard thinks that raids are just going to gather them up and AoE them down and ignore mechanics, chances are they hotfix something to make it more challenging.

[RandomGamer]

Focus on dealing with each mechanics, if you're struggling with that fight the last thing you want to do is do it the hard way. I doubt you (or anyone) would have the gear for a straight zerg cleave anyway.

Do it right and it's a striaght forward fight, especially with the HP Nerf just gone in.

(assuming this is normal)

We zerged them pre-nerf the first night. We don't have really stellar DPS. People is around 500 average.

a) everyone nuked the sand boss while cleaving them all
b) whenever the empowered one reaches 70+ energy DPS focuses on it
c) as sand boss is getting most of the dmg all the healing adds will go to it, not the empowered one
d) you can try to stun and kill the add as it spawns, it's not required, tho
e) single tank the fight, it will become a punching bag when it gets frozen, tho (druids are awesome for this with proper SD usage I only got frozen once on our 1st kill)
f) sand boss should be below 20% when it empowers, if your DPS is decent it will die before spawning the 1st set of adds
g) if sand adds spawn make sure tank kites them away from raid along with thunder boss to avoid sand traps spawning on top of melee, ranged should deal with adds
h) make sure you have a good interrupt rotation on sand boss

[Drikkink]

Blessed Loa Spirit: Summons a Blessed Loa Spirit which moves to the councilor with the lowest health and heals them for 10% of their maximum health. Every 30 seconds. My math says this would be for about 7.5M heal. Over the course of 30 seconds you would need another 200k dps to make it worth it. I'm not saying stack and burn isn't impossible to pull off, but factoring in all the incoming damage to the raid, it doesn't seem efficient.

Besides, if Blizzard thinks that raids are just going to gather them up and AoE them down and ignore mechanics, chances are they hotfix something to make it more challenging.

10% is an error. That is the heroic number. The normal number is, in fact, 5%

[Namana]

Blessed Loa Spirit: Summons a Blessed Loa Spirit which moves to the councilor with the lowest health and heals them for 10% of their maximum health. Every 30 seconds. My math says this would be for about 7.5M heal. Over the course of 30 seconds you would need another 200k dps to make it worth it. I'm not saying stack and burn isn't impossible to pull off, but factoring in all the incoming damage to the raid, it doesn't seem efficient.

Besides, if Blizzard thinks that raids are just going to gather them up and AoE them down and ignore mechanics, chances are they hotfix something to make it more challenging.

Except that on normal, which I'm assuming the OP is talking about, it's a 5% heal, not 10% (that's heroic). 5% of the ~74m hp they have on 10 man is ~3.7m healing, which makes Kaoskadosk's math correct.

Even if a particular raid team couldn't make that up (which, honestly, that little is pretty easy to gain with cleaves), once they get more gear and say are progressing on later bosses, they will be able to, and that'll be the quicker way to do the fight. I doubt they will hotfix it to make it harder. Another example, in my 10 man group we don't tank swap the frost king. Our bear tank as him the whole time and either eats the stun, or more often than not dodges enough attacks to not get stunned at all. Are they going to nerf dodge or make it so those attacks can't be dodged? highly unlikely. Just because there are ways to ignore mechanics, whether through gear or class abilities, does not mean that Blizzard needs to go in and change it so it's always relevant.

[Deleted]

you can very easily stack them all together....u still need to ensure your main focus is the empowered add while cleaving onto the other 3 (since the roll guys goes where he pleases)

the only difficulty we found this gave was the healing add the priest women spawns....so we just had our pally tank stun it instantly and our boomy push it back at the same time....giving you more than enuff time to kill it.