Future Cartel Reputation systems incoming...

[Deleted]

I don't get why ppl are so upset, nobody has to buy any of the crap they are selling. P2W? How?

I agree - cosmetic stuff isn't exactly P2W.

Response from BW:

I can see from reading over this thread (and some others) that there are some questions around this new Reputation so I wanted to hopefully clarify a few points in this thread.
-

Reputation is based on money spent! - Although to an extent this is certainly true as the Reputation is gained by opening Contraband Packs, keep in mind that if you do not want to spend Cartel Coins on packs you always have the option of purchasing them through the GTN from other players. I know this will not diffuse the notion that it is a "pay to Reputation" but it is an alternative to spending Cartel Coins if that was your primary concern.



Pay To Win - When designing a system for the Cartel Market this is always something we are very aware of. With this new Reputation system almost all of the items you can get have no stats and are purely cosmetic items or Adaptive shells. The only exception is the level 43 armor which was previously found on the Cartel Market.



Exclusive Items - As a part of this Reputation there are three vendors found on the fleet, only one of these vendors contains items exclusive to this organization (which again, has no stats on it). The other two vendors contain items which are either found in packs from Shipment One, or were previously a part of the Cartel Market (which are most likely all available from other players on the GTN). These items all cost credits, Cartel Market Certificates, or both.

I know these clarifications will certainly not alleviate all of your frustrations. I want to note that the design philosophy behind this Reputation was to specifically thank the players who purchase the best-selling items on the Cartel Market, the packs. I hope those clarifications can alleviate some of your concerns, however, please keep the feedback coming. As you explore the system we want to hear your thoughts and will be keeping an eye on this thread.
-eric

[Kelimbror]

I don't get why ppl are so upset, nobody has to buy any of the crap they are selling.

1) Reputation is a system that was sorely needed in such a bare bones game. Now multiple reputations will only be available through cash shop related items. Proof that development has steered away from giving players a solid game and instead is just a vehicle for cash shop purchases.

2) Subscribers who have been promised nothing but gold and free content have been constantly given additional payment ultimatums on everything from the 'expansion' to now not being able to access multiple factions in the game. All while continuing to give their $15 a month...for what?

3) Other reasons that we've been over plenty, but the same types of people will have some dismissive answer for that too. If you don't see it at this point, you probably never will.

[WarpedAcorn]

Again, to play devil's advocate, the Reputation systems in any MMO are a grind that many people enjoy completing. However, it should be noted that no content is currently gated based on Reputation. Its a completely optional experience. With the Cartel / Bioware Reputation, similarly you aren't being excluded from content. The only thing you miss out on are some Armor Shells and toys. Personally, this doesn't bug me like it does some people.

What does bug me is that the game releases this as "content" instead of new stuff (which is obviously being withheld for the "expansion"). I wouldn't mind if SWTOR was a true F2P, but its not.

[sxar]

1) Reputation is a system that was sorely needed in such a bare bones game. Now multiple reputations will only be available through cash shop related items. Proof that development has steered away from giving players a solid game and instead is just a vehicle for cash shop purchases.

2) Subscribers who have been promised nothing but gold and free content have been constantly given additional payment ultimatums on everything from the 'expansion' to now not being able to access multiple factions in the game. All while continuing to give their $15 a month...for what?

3) Other reasons that we've been over plenty, but the same types of people will have some dismissive answer for that too. If you don't see it at this point, you probably never will.

You do not see our point and you never will.

While I do not like the way the Cartel Market is turning with the packs, I am not going to sit here and scream 'the sky is falling'. It is a good thing that the CM is doing good business. If it keeps EA happy with the profits, and it leads to more content for those who choose not to spend money on the CM it is all good. Far too many people are blowing a gasket over their ability to see the future when they have no such ability. All we can do is express our displeasure and wait and see what happens. Of course, expressing your displeasure here does nothing since this is not an official EA website.

People had a fit when Blizzard introduced their store. People had a fit that SimCity required you to be online to play, yet Blizzard did this with StarCraft 2 a couple years ago. EA may not be your favorite gaming company, but are the other companies really that much better?

[Deleted]

Of course, how could I even imagine trying to have a discussion about this without some stupid ad hominems about "parenting skills" popping up...

Its gambling. Its buying a "chance" to earn an item. Saying these items dont have a "value" is nonsense.

As to your ignorant attack on me, I question whether you have children. Kids make mistakes, are tempted and disobey their parents from time to time regardless of the love, care,guidance and overall quality of parenting they are given from their parents.

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 04:34 PM ----------



I do. And SWTOR is coming of his list of acceptable games to use his finances on.

Im done here. The personal shots were out of line and ignorant form the poster earlier.

This is gambling. Plain as day. You spend ream world money for a chance to win an item. The item holds value because it takes real money to acquire said item.

Have a good day.

I agree with this guy in that It is a form of gambling and people spoke to him like he was a piece of shit

[Kelimbror]

Again, to play devil's advocate, the Reputation systems in any MMO are a grind that many people enjoy completing. However, it should be noted that no content is currently gated based on Reputation. Its a completely optional experience. With the Cartel / Bioware Reputation, similarly you aren't being excluded from content. The only thing you miss out on are some Armor Shells and toys. Personally, this doesn't bug me like it does some people.

What does bug me is that the game releases this as "content" instead of new stuff (which is obviously being withheld for the "expansion"). I wouldn't mind if SWTOR was a true F2P, but its not.

But honestly that's a large part of my point. You can't look at each decision as an isolated issue. It's all part of one ever growing problem. Subscribers are being continually alienated as valued customers to BiowarEA. In a few months we've come from every customer is valuable, to only subscriptions are valuable, to only people who buy cartel packs are valuable.

It's pathetic.

You do not see our point and you never will.

White Knight -> White Bar. It's the only way to stay sane.

Of course, expressing your displeasure here does nothing since this is not an official EA website.

Sure, just like us complaining about a lot of things that were miraculously changed afterwards had no effect. Just like no developers from other companies read this website, like Blizzard or Trion, oh wait..yes they do...they even post here.

Let's take our complaints to the SWTOR Offical Forums! Oh wait, can't do that because I'm a preferred player.

EA may not be your favorite gaming company, but are the other companies really that much better?

Yes potential EA employee, just about every company I deal with is vastly better. Hello Sim City. Thank you for making even the Diablo 3 launch look like amazing business.

[notorious98]

Sure, just like us complaining about a lot of things that were miraculously changed afterwards had no effect. Just like no developers from other companies read this website, like Blizzard or Trion, oh wait..yes they do...they even post here.

I know that Joveth used to read and post on Darth Hater. Not sure if Musco reads it, but 3rd party sites definitely used to get attention.

---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 12:02 PM ----------

Am I the only one who looks at all of this and wonders why people are so worried??

Because it's another step in the direction of P2W. Also, by them saying that CM shit is "content", it's telling subscribers that they aren't paying Bioware enough to receive all content. They need to spend more. If you're comfortable being a subscriber and getting less content because more content is being put up for sale on the CM, more power to you. But you're just defending Bioware's poor business decisions and allowing them gouge other players and, eventually, gouge you.

[RoninaThorstone]

But you're just defending Bioware's poor business decisions and allowing them gouge other players and, eventually, gouge you.

It's funny because subscribers were like "Pay up you f2p welfare scum bags. You don't deserve this because it's for paying customers." and now the whales are like "Pay up you subscriber welfare scum bags. You don't deserve this because it's for high paying customers."

I've seen communities fractured along pvp / pve and f2p/ subscriber... but never f2p / subscriber / whales before. It's interesting.

[sxar]

But honestly that's a large part of my point. You can't look at each decision as an isolated issue. It's all part of one ever growing problem. Subscribers are being continually alienated as valued customers to BiowarEA. In a few months we've come from every customer is valuable, to only subscriptions are valuable, to only people who buy cartel packs are valuable.

Duh, of course someone spending more than a subscription is more valuable. When someone says 'every customer is valuable', they never said they had the same value. This is how it works in the real world. Just like employers paying wages, all employees are valuable to the business for it to run, but the wages are not the same for all employees. Bioware needs all the players and some will get a bonus.

White Knight -> White Bar. It's the only way to stay sane.

So, just because I do totally do not agree with what you are saying, I am a White Knight. You are showing just how unreasonable you are.

Sure, just like us complaining about a lot of things that were miraculously changed afterwards had no effect. Just like no developers from other companies read this website, like Blizzard or Trion, oh wait..yes they do...they even post here.

So you are taking credit for the changes that were made now? If they read these forums (a big if since it is only the same people complaining for the sake of complaining), they are more likely looking at the issues brought up on their forums since those are subscribers and they are more valuable.

Yes potential EA employee, just about every company I deal with is vastly better. Hello Sim City. Thank you for making even the Diablo 3 launch look like amazing business.

Yet again, since I do not see the world the same shade you do, you pretend I am blind to everything.

How does the Sim City launch relate to SWToR? A division of EA fails in a major way, so therefore it must be the same for all divisions? According to your reasoning, Apple is a 'fail' company considering how bad their map program was a major fail at launch.

[notorious98]

So you are taking credit for the changes that were made now? If they read these forums (a big if since it is only the same people complaining for the sake of complaining), they are more likely looking at the issues brought up on their forums since those are subscribers and they are more valuable.

Actually, if they were reading their own forums, they'd see the amount of negative backlash this decision has made. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that subscribers AREN'T more valuable. Especially considering this decision only affects those that spend a large amount of money in their cash shop. That could be subscribers, preferred, or F2P. So, in reality, they're only listening to the feedback of people who spend large amounts of money buying Cartel Packs.

And don't make the assumption that every subscriber posts on the official forums, but not on these. Some people prefer to be on other forums and not on ones that are as toxic as those on the main site.

[Deleted]

and it leads to more content for those who choose not to spend money on the CM

*looks at rise of the hutt cartel*

Yes, that sure seems to be the case. This is just another case of them putting more content behind a paywall, subscribers not excluded because they might get the idea the subscription actually buys them anything.

[sxar]

I feel sick.

What is the Cartel Market Reputation System?

We’ve added the Cartel Market Reputation System as a way of rewarding players who purchase multiple packs within a Shipment. Each Shipment will have its own Reputation track.

Am I reading the above correctly? More of these 'Pay To gain Reputation' systems in the works?

Link: http://www.swtor.com/blog/developer-...tel-reputation

Considering that Shipment 1 was four or five different Cartel packs, this really should not be a surprise. If you are going to reward those who buy the packs, they will eventually max out the reputation over the period of time that you release the new packs for Shipment 2, so you will need to give them something to work for when Shipment 3 comes out. How many days/months did the Shipment 1 cartel packs stretch out over? I would like to know what kind of timeline they are planning for the Shipments. A new Shipment (new rep) every six months? As long as the items are cosmetic, I can live with it. Of course, that all depends on what is added to the game outside of the CM packs (and market).

[Edge-]

How does the Sim City launch relate to SWToR? A division of EA fails in a major way, so therefore it must be the same for all divisions? According to your reasoning, Apple is a 'fail' company considering how bad their map program was a major fail at launch.

Because it's in line with other behavior on their part? EA pretty consistently makes anty-consumer decisions and engages in shitty practices. If this were an isolated incident, I'd be more than happy to overlook it. However this is systemic and a continuation of a patter of behavior over a long period of time.

[sxar]

Actually, if they were reading their own forums, they'd see the amount of negative backlash this decision has made. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that subscribers AREN'T more valuable. Especially considering this decision only affects those that spend a large amount of money in their cash shop. That could be subscribers, preferred, or F2P. So, in reality, they're only listening to the feedback of people who spend large amounts of money buying Cartel Packs.

As you state, the forums are a cesspool. Saying they only listen to feedback from the people who buy the cartel packs is just plain silly. You have no idea if that is true or not. The well thought out and stated backlash is rarely seen. It is possible that while they understand these stated concerns, they are not in a position where they can change it. If they are keeping EA happy with these changes (aka money) and the doors open, then so be it.

And don't make the assumption that every subscriber posts on the official forums, but not on these. Some people prefer to be on other forums and not on ones that are as toxic as those on the main site.

I was hoping the smiley wink would infer that.

---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 02:36 PM ----------

*looks at rise of the hutt cartel*

Yes, that sure seems to be the case. This is just another case of them putting more content behind a paywall, subscribers not excluded because they might get the idea the subscription actually buys them anything.

I played WoW for quite a long time. Major content would stop being released up to 6 months before a planned expansion. Once the expansion hit, more content was released in the months that followed. While it is possible that they put new content behind a paywall, I will wait and see how the first couple of months go after the expansion and judge it from there.

[Deleted]

I played WoW for quite a long time. Major content would stop being released up to 6 months before a planned expansion. Once the expansion hit, more content was released in the months that followed. While it is possible that they put new content behind a paywall, I will wait and see how the first couple of months go after the expansion and judge it from there.

Possible? It's a fact at the moment, people like you have been excusing bioware for major content droughtby saying they've added a miniscule amount of fluff and that it is every bit as meaningful a content as anything else, you don't get to have it both ways.

They have effectively said both with Rothc and this update that subscribers can not expect to get content updates for free. In fact they seem to be getting increasingle less for their subscription.

[notorious98]

As you state, the forums are a cesspool. Saying they only listen to feedback from the people who buy the cartel packs is just plain silly. You have no idea if that is true or not.

Nope, but I can make a hypothesis based on the evidence presented to me. If you can show me evidence to dispute that, I'd be more than willing to see it. Don't worry. I'll wait.

The well thought out and stated backlash is rarely seen.

Only to those so staunchly defending because their BW/EA glasses make it difficult to read sentences clearly.

It is possible that while they understand these stated concerns, they are not in a position where they can change it. If they are keeping EA happy with these changes (aka money) and the doors open, then so be it.

Weird, I wasn't aware they didn't have any control over their game. And what doors are going to open? You think that's going to add players to the game? Quite the opposite. You're more likely to see people leave as opposed to bringing them in. It's a cash grab from those people who will blindly spend money on these Cartel Packs.

[sxar]

Nope, but I can make a hypothesis based on the evidence presented to me. If you can show me evidence to dispute that, I'd be more than willing to see it. Don't worry. I'll wait.

Your 'proof' is in fact not proof. It is your interpretation of evidence and I have a differing interpretation.

Only to those so staunchly defending because their BW/EA glasses make it difficult to read sentences clearly.

So, now we are back to the old standby of insinuating that person is a fanboy. Nice job, I am so devastated.

Weird, I wasn't aware they didn't have any control over their game. And what doors are going to open? You think that's going to add players to the game? Quite the opposite. You're more likely to see people leave as opposed to bringing them in. It's a cash grab from those people who will blindly spend money on these Cartel Packs.

Do you understand business? If BioWare isn't making the money EA wants to see, they 'close the doors'. That would mean no more content and running the servers until the subscribers fall below a level where they shut down the servers. You can come up with many possibilities as to why they are doing what they are doing, but unless you are in the meetings, it is ALL conjecture.

[Kelimbror]

So, now we are back to the old standby of insinuating that person is a fanboy. Nice job, I am so devastated.

Your reception of the statement is a potential subconscious impulse. Nothing was said about you being a fanboy. Please don't bring out that term in some vague attempt at getting people infracted. It's not very becoming.

Neither is blindly defending something that doesn't contribute anything of merit to a game. I mean really..give me a break...this thread was created by someone who loves this game, has put up with every bad decision that has been made, and continues to give multiple subscriptions to something that many of us feel is worthless. Even he said he feels sick with this recent trend.

Jamos is a fanboy in every positive sense of that word and all of us respect his decision and desire to spend money on it. We don't agree with everything he thinks and v/v, but I would respect his unbiased position when giving critical feedback because he is one least likely to be bothered by something we would already be sharpening pitchforks for.

Please forgive us that we aren't going to take kindly to some unknown person waxing poetic about the glory of BiowarEA in the face of all of this.

unless you are in the meetings, it is ALL conjecture.

So they aren't implementing this to make more money?

[Freshmint]

What does the cartel rep actually allow you to get? Like if I were to go crazy and "purchase" my rep all the way to max...what can I get for it?

Not trying to stir anything up, I just am unaware is all, just came back to the game a few weeks ago

[Potato Bus]

What does the cartel rep actually allow you to get? Like if I were to go crazy and "purchase" my rep all the way to max...what can I get for it?

Not trying to stir anything up, I just am unaware is all, just came back to the game a few weeks ago

Supposedly *some* rare items from previous packs, looks like some new items as well. I haven't seen the vendor but there's more info here: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130313