Enhancement Shaman not worth bringing to raids in high end progression?

[Roseby]

Essentially this. Anything that an Enhancement shaman could bring to raid, the consensus is that an Elemental Shaman would be a superior option.

As far as melee goes, the Shaman does not have the same raid utility as say a rogue (smoke bombs/sheer dps) or a warrior (banners/cries).

It doesn't seem as if any of the top guilds raid an enhancement shaman so that begs the question from me, "In it's current state in top end progression why would you bring an enhancement shaman?"

I personally prefer the playstyle over many other melee DPS.

[Clarke]

because of the skill of the player rather than the class? Rets been in this bed for just aslong so get ready to start proving your worth :P.

[Lassira]

they haven't been since TBC

[Raiju]

because of the skill of the player rather than the class? Rets been in this bed for just aslong so get ready to start proving your worth :P.

3.3.

In other words: No.

I don't feel enhance "isn't worth taking" to high end progression, but you certainly wouldn't take many. It's dps warrants an exceptional players spot since it's possible to keep up with the higher classes, in my opinion. Moreso than in the last 3-4 years.

[Clarke]

3.3.

In other words: No.

I don't feel enhance "isn't worth taking" to high end progression, but you certainly wouldn't take many. It's dps warrants an exceptional players spot since it's possible to keep up with the higher classes, in my opinion. Moreso than in the last 3-4 years.

I dont see how Rets position is any different.

[Deleted]

No surprises here.

[Raiju]

I dont see how Rets position is any different.

rets were fine in 3.0 and 3.3, great in fact.

Enhance was literally rock bottom in 3.3, the only spec that came close was elemental. Frostmages had a good 2k lead on us when dps peak was around 20k.

[Roboctopus]

I disagree 100%. I dunk on most of my raid on all non-cleave fights. And even then I keep up very well with our Afflic and Boomkin. Plus my off heals, cool downs, Anhk, roots, stuns etc..

imo Enhance is amazing!

[Lumineus]

rets were fine in 3.0 and 3.3, great in fact.

Ret was garbage in 3.0. The only thing even comparatively as bad was Shadow Priest. It was just that no one cared because Naxx 25 was a joke. Saw a lot less Rets in EoE and Sarth 3D, that's for sure.

Then in 3.3 with an overpowered 2pc set bonus, a trinket that was outright broken, and a Legendary weapon, you still didn't see Ret logs setting the world on fire, it was Warriors and Mages like always. Did I mention that this was also with 3% bonus damage against all targets from Glyph of Sense Undead, more bonus damage from the Crusade talent, an extra AoE, and an attack that autocrit everything in the instance? No? Well consider it mentioned.

[Deleted]

I've been told directly by officers/GM that the reason they take our Frost DK, Rogue and Warrior more to 10 man than me is because of utility, we do the same DpS roughly but i'm seldom chosen for Progress unless their's no other option.

[Raiju]

Ret was garbage in 3.0. The only thing even comparatively as bad was Shadow Priest. It was just that no one cared because Naxx 25 was a joke. Saw a lot less Rets in EoE and Sarth 3D, that's for sure.

Then in 3.3 with an overpowered 2pc set bonus, a trinket that was outright broken, and a Legendary weapon, you still didn't see Ret logs setting the world on fire, it was Warriors and Mages like always. Did I mention that this was also with 3% bonus damage against all targets from Glyph of Sense Undead, more bonus damage from the Crusade talent, an extra AoE, and an attack that autocrit everything in the instance? No? Well consider it mentioned.

Rets were fine in 3.0, considering they were useful.

Look at enhance at these times, or if you were in a decent guild - likely not see one. Why would you be taking one anyway? You're much better getting your bloodlust from a resto shaman.

[Lavindar]

As far as melee goes, the Shaman does not have the same raid utility as say a rogue (smoke bombs/sheer dps) or a warrior (banners/cries).

This is just untrue, we have great utility with totems and have good of heal, and we have solid dps this tier, specially with those new trinkets and legendary metagem.

[Razecog]

Oh shush. Enha is fine, it just requires some skill.

[Draenox]

I am doing really well in this tier in terms of pure dps, plus we have loads of raid utility in the sense of bringing really strong hybrid healing if needed. I don't see why you would be annoyed with how enhancement is now, in my opinion it's better than it's ever been, both in terms of dps and utility.

[xap]

Um well I'm in a 25man guild and while i am the only enhancement shaman i don't get sat because of utility or anything, generally just as usual casters are favoured for most fights. But even then, i am usually in.

But what i get brought in for is my stormlash totem whether i want in for the fight or not. My AG also heals for a good amount, and i am not so squishy since we have a fair amount of self healing now. Oh and my single target damage is stupid good (right now anyway) and since we're a 25man there are some bosses with aoe such as tortos, where the other melee will aoe the bats but i am told to tunnel boss.

So really it's up to your raid leader to use an enhancement shaman to their benefit. Besides the damage benefits we also have tremor (a must have for heroic empress), we have HTT, AG and even conductivity which are all really good depending on the situation as heroics are pretty damn healing intensive. For heroic will i would spec astral shift and macro it with sham rage to soak the sparks. This goes for a lot of soaking bosses, it's an extremely good macro for these situations as it's just a one press key.

So you need to prove how much of a benefit you actually are. Also not dying to fire helps too!

I'm not in the bestest guild ever but i am 15/16 heroic t14(pre patch) and 11/12 t15 enhance shaman experience with about 5-10 players on bench each fight.

[Endus]

Shaman have plenty of utility. You can push a ton of healing with your Tier 5 CDs on healing pressure points. Stormlash Totem is a decent raid DPS increase, and Stormlashes stack. Shaman still have one of the best interrupts in the game for CD purposes. Etc. Plenty of raid buffs. We aren't lacking in that regard, really.

I know last tier, me running as Elemental was the reason we could afford to drop to 2 healers for some fights, because me popping my HTT or AG was as much healing as a third healer for those troublesome spots (10-man, I'd drop ~600k healing or more in 15 seconds, which is about ~40k hps while it's up).

[Roseby]

Yeah just curious. I am talking about top 20 raiding. I see Purge in a high progression environment but outside of that Enh don't really seem to slot in 25's.

[cFortyfive]

The amount of enhancement players is miniscule therefor chances of getting one actually worthwhile are even worse than for other classes plus they maybe don't happen to have the same dps capabilities a dk or a rogue provides. Still ancestral guidance for instance looks to me tons better than for instance amz.

[Deleted]

I managed to convince our RL (new guild) to take on a good enhancement from former guild instead of a rogue. He said he would give it a shot but he shouldnt expect a spot in future raids because of "lack of utility". The enhance pretty much ensured his spot for future runs once the RL starting looking at logs. Stormlash + AG is just golden and helps progression so much.

[Glyphtics]

The amount of enhancement players is miniscule therefor chances of getting one actually worthwhile are even worse than for other classes plus they maybe don't happen to have the same dps capabilities a dk or a rogue provides. Still ancestral guidance for instance looks to me tons better than for instance amz.

Enhancement bodies Rogues and DK's on single target, and on a fight like Horridon when adds are up for a decent amount of time, they'll beat Rogues, and be relatively on par with DK's.

Ancestral Guidance is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, to a point where it's borderline overpowered. On my Heroic Horridon kill, I did 221.3k, DK did 221.2k and Rogue did 219.3k DPS. However the difference between all of us, was that I did 11.3M Healing (31M including Overhealing), and the rogue brought Smokebomb, which we used once.

There are very few top tier / Heroic raiding Enhancement shamans left, their under-representation in high-end no doubt leads people to believe that they're shit / shouldn't be brought at all.