Where have all the Raiders Gone?

[glowpipe]

Its not hard to see that wow is actualy struggeling atm. You can even go so far and say that the game is dying. In wrath when you said in trade "X guild is looking for a Y to our raiding team, raiding bla bla bla" you instantly got 10+ whispering you. You could pick and wreck players like there was no tomorrow. On a medium realm.
Now on that same realm. We have spent over 1 frikking month to get a healer and a range dps. And our progress aint bad. There just simply aint any raiders left

[alucardtnuoc]

Don't forget, cata was alt friendly,

I was raiding on 3-4 different toons in heroic DS, Took one day for a full clear on my mains group.

Shammy, rogue, mage, dk oh and hunter too.. that makes 5 lol.

[Amerissis]

I always had to put up with drama, schedules and assholes to raid. Now I do LFR without all the negatives. Finally the elitist subraiders get what they deserve: people who tell them to stuff it, because they have an alternative.

[Tenjen]

the demographic is changing. those large masses you mention that played so much with mutiple raid groups used by each guild, have grown older in the near decade the game has existed. They've had to move on with their lives to jobs and family and what have you.

the next generation and the remnants are not as willing to follow suit with those days, no matter how much nostalgia we have for those days we dont want them back.

I'am amazed blizz has been able to morph and create so many interesting and new mechanics while also incorporating the old mechanics in all sorts of ways and combinations that the game engine can deal with. But the game has been around for a near decade and its nature is going to change and the population behave differently than those days.

[Isla]

I raided all through BC and Wrath. My raid guild broke up during Cata, and that was enough. I'm years older now than when I started - more responsibilities at work, at home, with my family. Like the person above my post, I just am not interested in everything that goes with competitive raiding anymore.

I was recently offered a good place in a raid group that is trying to move from 10s up to 25s. I was tempted, for all of 10 minutes. I miss raiding, but not the stuff that goes with it.

WoW has more content than ever. Used to be you got to level cap and there was nothing to do unless you were either serious about pvp or raiding. Now I'm level cap and I still play almost as much, just not on someone else's schedule. Dailies, LFR, casual pvp, there's still plenty to keep me busy.

[Super Kami Dende]

The massive Gear grind.

[Reyzzz]

The massive Gear grind.

What about it?

[Herecius]

Anecdotes be anecdotal! Kil'Jaeden-US is positively exploding with raiders. The number of 25man raiding guilds is actually going up here.

[Super Kami Dende]

What about it?

Reduces the amount of people willing to get geared for Raiding.

[Swizzle]

Anecdotes be anecdotal! Kil'Jaeden-US is positively exploding with raiders. The number of 25man raiding guilds is actually going up here.

Same with Illidan-US, people need to stop using anecdotes as evidence.

[Reyzzz]

Reduces the amount of people willing to get geared for Raiding.

Well...if you aren't interested in putting effort to your character, you may aswell stay playing facebook games.

[Commander]

In Classic, TBC and WotLK raiding used to give real rewards. High-end gear was rare so if you were full T3 or full T6 or even just had a 284 weapon, you were a special snowflake in the eyes of many players. You would also get unique mounts and titles that aren't obtainable anymore (ZA bear, black/plagued proto, the Immortal, realm first titles, Champion/Conqueror of Ulduar, 100% drop chance on Mimiron's head and Invincible etc).

In Cata and MoP you literally get NOTHING for being a raider. Yes, you do get gear but no one cares, gear doesn't make you special anymore. You get titles but to an old school raider, they don't sound as good as the old ones. Notice how on every single screenshot made by a top guild like Method etc, their raiders are ONLY using titles from WotLK and TBC. Yes, you also get mounts but again, the oldschool raiders stick to their Invincible/Mimi's head/protos etc, pretty much ignoring the new flying serpents.

TLDR: most people want to be unique snowflakes and raiding doesn't give them the opportunity to reach this status anymore.

[Frozenbeef]

Well...if you aren't interested in putting effort to your character, you may aswell stay playing facebook games.

How is obtaining the best gear the only method of putting development into your character?

[Armourboy]

I started raiding in T1, became an officer, lead raids for a few tiers and I would like to raid normal+ but I tell everyone that my schedule is what it is. I've sat in for dps the last 2 tiers and gotten invites but when I told the guilds up front they can't bank on my attendance they decided to pass. Completely understanable, and I don't want to advertisement myself as a raider if I have to duck out 1/2 the time.....it's just the way it is.

This is pretty much where I am. My work schedule just won't let me raid seriously other than to fill in here and there. Raided back in Vanilla and then in TBC the work kicked in. Didn't really get to raid again til Wrath when you could progress with players who hadn't really been able to raid before ( other than maybe Kara and ZG). Once Cata hit and they upped the difficulty again in the first couple of tiers ( compared to face roll Naxx 10, ToC, and ICC10 with the 30% buff) they just all quit playing and the only thing you could find for a while was real raid guilds.

Luckily I have LFR, but honestly it feels like nothing more than a treadmill with no real wow factor.

I think alot of it too is that alot of people are tired of completely regearing every 3 months. Back in Vanilla and TBC you would often hold onto gear for a while, not only because of bad RNG, but because it was good and just took time to get. I know now like anyone I like getting gear, but its not something I care a crap ton about because if I don't get it I know in 3-4 months there is going to be new gear anyways.

Basically there is no accomplishment anymore, its just getting gear you will replace in a very short period of time.

[Reyzzz]

How is obtaining the best gear the only method of putting development into your character?

Getting the gear required for raiding is far, far away from the best gear.

[Frozenbeef]

Getting the gear required for raiding is far, far away from the best gear.

Let me rephrase what i said. How is getting gear the only method of putting effort into your character/ the only reason to play an mmorpg?

You said unless you are willing to get gear you should just play Facebook games. When there are people that play that couldn't care less about what tier of gear they have and enjoy many other aspects of the game, yet apparently an mmorpg isn't suited for them.

[judgementofantonidas]

I like to keep things simple so when raiding made a mess out of my life I called it quits.
For good (I hope!)

no, browsing this forum doesn't make me want to return

Dunno. You need to wear that blindfold so that you can no longer see your addiction. ;P

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 09:58 AM ----------

Are you denying that is the truth? (at least the first part of what I said, the last part is mostly opinion)

The real raiding community is thriving. Us bottom feeders however are feeling a pinch. I only find it comical that someone who does not raid feels compelled to always speak for those who do, or at least continue to attempt to.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 10:02 AM ----------

What excellent input! I started this because I was really doubting my approach with my guild. I only play this game to do progression raiding yet I haven't made any progression. Always short a healer or dps and what is scary is you can't find even a close to serviceable pug anymore. Not only that but when you try give some constructive criticism players just leave guild because they are LFR hero's.

This whole situation makes me very sad. I started WoW during the height of ICC when you could literally say in trade what boss you are on and you could find a raid group down to now where it seems WoW is going to become a giant land of matchmaking. Might as well go play Halo since at least I don't spend my whole night on that searching the depths of WoW for the last few remaining people who actually like a good challenge. I say that because PvP makes me vomit in my mouth a little bit.
BOOM HEAD SHOT!

I will have to agree with you on the topic of LFR heroes. We recently had a shaman leave our guild. She left because we would never slot her in the core progression group. In the post leaving conversation, which is something I try to have with every former guild member, she stated that she did not understand why we claimed her healing was below par as she always topped the charts in LFR.......................

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 10:06 AM ----------

I was a 5/7-raider.
Then came college and I could only raid 3 days a week.
Followed by a job with insane random times and it went down to 1 or 2 days a week.
Now I have my work and with my schedule (that could change every month) I can only raid on monday and thursday.

So I stopped guild-raiding because I don't want to burden a guild with my low availability.
Luckily there is LFR so I can still enjoy the raids somewhat

so you made a sound decission and a good one to not drag your guild down. I would however like to state that if you really loved your guild and the people in it you would have staid in guild, supported the raiders through mats and the percentage contribution of gold from your random heroics AND switched to LFR visits until such time as your schedule mellows out or you quit playing completely.

[Deleted]

When in order to be best prepared for raiding, which is something you might strive for as a serious normal raider, includes that you have to cap valor, do daylies for coins and run LFR up to 5 times a week depending on what lfr gear you might still need. And that is only to be ready to raid then you have to raid itself. Somehow you just do not have enough time.
Besides you do not get anything special out of doing normal mode compared with doing only LFR. You get equip that has other colors and that is made obsolete be the LFR drops in the next raid patch. You get a FoS for clearing the instances on normal mode before the next raid patch.
One might than say but hey you get to hang out with other people and do stuff with em. But honestly 10 man raiding guilds are more like ghost towns outside of raiding hours.

[Tzalix]

Raiders are going the same way as prostitues.

They are no longer walking the streets, they now hide in the deep recesses of the internet.

[judgementofantonidas]

When in order to be best prepared for raiding, which is something you might strive for as a serious normal raider, includes that you have to cap valor, do daylies for coins and run LFR up to 5 times a week depending on what lfr gear you might still need. And that is only to be ready to raid then you have to raid itself. Somehow you just do not have enough time.
Besides you do not get anything special out of doing normal mode compared with doing only LFR. You get equip that has other colors and that is made obsolete be the LFR drops in the next raid patch. You get a FoS for clearing the instances on normal mode before the next raid patch.
One might than say but hey you get to hang out with other people and do stuff with em. But honestly 10 man raiding guilds are more like ghost towns outside of raiding hours.

untrue. If I were to log on now there would be at least three to seven people on and half of them in mumble. maybe in a ten man guild that only runs one group you would be correct.