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  1. #1141
    Where have all the Raiders Gone?
    We quit the game I guess?

    I played since December 2005, and I quit several months ago as it was obvious that 25 man raiding was dead, and Blizzard wasn't going to do anything to bring it back. I found that WoW just wasn't fun when I wasn't part of a large raiding guild, so I stopped playing. I never liked the expansion theme too, although Pandaria (the continent) was cool.
    Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

  2. #1142
    Glorious Leader mate... take a chill pill concerning this topic mate. It seems that you get more and more frustrated everyday in this topic. We all can't help the fact that you couldn't properly heal Tortos. And I am not even saying that is your fault. There are numbers of reasons why this might be.

    example:
    1. yes ok, your skill - but since you were kind enough to let us know that you never ever had this same experience - I'll call this one false
    2. your guildies suck - could be I haven't heard any evidence to the contrary. However me stating this doesn't make it true, I don't know your guildies
    3. the encounter is not friendly to paladins - this I can sorta say is true. I am a holy paladin. I find it "frustrating" to not be able to run and heal at the same time. And thus this encounter sucks for me. Still I feel I got this fight under control. But I have only LFR experience on this one. So it is def. not the same.
    4. the fight is badly tuned. This could be the case. Still I believe that this fight is pretty good under the assumption that not every class is perfect for every fight. I'd say druids might have a blast healing this fight. Is that bad? No not as long as people can down this fight. And not everyone is meant to down everything. But I don't have the numbers to prove if this fight is badly tuned or not. Time will tell.

    I am with you on a lot of points in your previous posts. But I do not agree or want normal to be like Cata/WOTLK normal -where bosses could be oneshotted. I have had my fairshare of those bosses and that utterly sucks. Sure we all laugh and say "haha we're good!" While we just as well have said: "geez could Blizzard not have done a better job at making this atleast challenging?"

    What I do like is where LFR is going now. The fights there are from my pov better/more challenging. I am not saying they are difficult. But atleast you can wipe inthere and sometimes more then once.

    My advice to you and your guild (based on your posts): Go back farming/defeating content you haven't killed yet and then come back. Perhaps by that time the fights have been tuned more to your liking and you and your guild can have a sense of accomplishment that you completed an instance. And I don't mean this condensending (spelling?) either. I think this would be the best advice as long as the fights are - from what you tell me - too hard.

  3. #1143
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If you couldn't clear tier 14 after 5 months then you are not a normal mode raider. The problem is that normal skilled people are not who you are talking about because normal skilled people certainly could clear tier 14.
    You see, this is just not true.

    75% of GUILDS trying to do Normal raiding couldnt end T14 in the 5 months it was up. 75%, so the tier was not easy to the point that if you didnt do it you are not a normal raider.

    BTW, i did finish it.

    But you see, the ones finishing it were indeed heroic raiders (which are included in that 25% of guilds that did finish it), normal raiders did not finish it

    Again, numbers are pretty clear. 75% of guilds that tried T14 couldnt finish it. The mayority of normal raiders couldnt clear T14 and wont be able to clear T15, because Blizzard is tuning Normal raiding to Heroic raiders.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-04-12 at 10:41 AM.

  4. #1144
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Glorious Leader mate... take a chill pill concerning this topic mate. It seems that you get more and more frustrated everyday in this topic. We all can't help the fact that you couldn't properly heal Tortos. And I am not even saying that is your fault. There are numbers of reasons why this might be.

    example:
    1. yes ok, your skill - but since you were kind enough to let us know that you never ever had this same experience - I'll call this one false
    2. your guildies suck - could be I haven't heard any evidence to the contrary. However me stating this doesn't make it true, I don't know your guildies
    3. the encounter is not friendly to paladins - this I can sorta say is true. I am a holy paladin. I find it "frustrating" to not be able to run and heal at the same time. And thus this encounter sucks for me. Still I feel I got this fight under control. But I have only LFR experience on this one. So it is def. not the same.
    4. the fight is badly tuned. This could be the case. Still I believe that this fight is pretty good under the assumption that not every class is perfect for every fight. I'd say druids might have a blast healing this fight. Is that bad? No not as long as people can down this fight. And not everyone is meant to down everything. But I don't have the numbers to prove if this fight is badly tuned or not. Time will tell.

    I am with you on a lot of points in your previous posts. But I do not agree or want normal to be like Cata/WOTLK normal -where bosses could be oneshotted. I have had my fairshare of those bosses and that utterly sucks. Sure we all laugh and say "haha we're good!" While we just as well have said: "geez could Blizzard not have done a better job at making this atleast challenging?"

    What I do like is where LFR is going now. The fights there are from my pov better/more challenging. I am not saying they are difficult. But atleast you can wipe inthere and sometimes more then once.

    My advice to you and your guild (based on your posts): Go back farming/defeating content you haven't killed yet and then come back. Perhaps by that time the fights have been tuned more to your liking and you and your guild can have a sense of accomplishment that you completed an instance. And I don't mean this condensending (spelling?) either. I think this would be the best advice as long as the fights are - from what you tell me - too hard.
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.

  5. #1145
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.
    Hm, didn't you first say 6-10 wipes, now is 20? You can't design encounter's by how your friends and you want to raid and wipe. You know, 20 wipes for you and me is very different. Maybe you can kill it on 21st and I still need 30 more? So, to who they should cater? If you rather wanna watch TV, go. Better for you.
    I don't want another DS where you could rush through it like LFR. I swear to God that at one point it became like LFR with that crazy nerfs.

  6. #1146
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Hm, didn't you first say 6-10 wipes, now is 20?
    "Someone who opposes your point of view but can't find a fault with it will always nitpick where they can, it's rather sad" - my first politics teacher.
    You can't design encounter's by how your friends and you want to raid and wipe. You know, 20 wipes for you and me is very different. Maybe you can kill it on 21st and I still need 30 more? So, to who they should cater? If you rather wanna watch TV, go. Better for you.
    I don't want another DS where you could rush through it like LFR. I swear to God that at one point it became like LFR with that crazy nerfs.
    I'm 7/12 pre nerf on normal. I'm not talking about my own experience, nor about what I myself enjoy.

  7. #1147
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    While that might be good advice for him, his point still stands as regards the general playerbase.

    Normal raids are tuned too tightly for the average would be raider. It's the T11 problem of being overtuned all over again, and it has wound up the same way as firelands did - blanket nerfs so that regular people can actually clear the content. Next up will come a DS style raid which caters to the playerbase at large but which the elitists decry as "too easy." Hopefully this time round blizz will finally just stop wasting time catering to the best players and instead focus on the average.

    I never really understood why they do it. The best players will sit there until the cows come home and clear more or less anything. They'll sink 500 wipes into a boss for that amazing feeling they get when it finally falls over. They'll come up with complicated strategies, workarounds and whatnot to get things done. Basically they are like the terminator versus the content - which makes it pointless trying to slow them down. Just hive them off into heroic content which is set insanely high and let them wipe in it.

    Everyone else is more like "20 wipes and it's still not dead? Fuck that then, I wanna have fun. What's on TV?" and when these people aren't catered to it's sub losses, community implosions, guild deaths and investor QQ.

    The only thing I can think of is that normal people just stop bothering when the game is irritating to them, whereas the seriously into the game and hardcore will whinge on the forums to try and get what they want. Squeaky wheel syndrome. or maybe it's the PTR reports are massively skewed because of the preponderance of hardcores in testing.

    In any event, the game is too hard for it's customers again, so expect the next raid to be 5 morchoks before a challenge.
    What I am about to say isn't personal or specifically directed at you. But I see a lot of people saying (including you yes), that "normal" people don't want to wipe on a boss more then 20 times. And as you stated their guild explodes.

    Tbh and I know Blizzard keeps getting to agree with "those" people more and more..... I think those people should not play this game. If you can't bother with wiping more then 20 times per boss - gtfo or raid LFR. People need to learn the fight. If they have trouble learning the fight and therefor not having fun... this is not the game for you.

    But whom am I kidding right - since probably the most cash is coming in from those players - I just have to accept that the current raids in ToT are badly tuned for "those" people.

    As a former hardcore/commited player, I truly despise people who play this game the way you described. "Having a laugh while drunk and still want to down a boss within 20 wipes."

    I totally dispise those players for ruining what use to be a good and for the most balanced game in terms of PVE. However since I do not do normals or heroic anymore, I stopped caring much about stuff like this. But yes sometimes my former attitude pops up when I just get too much input from comments like these

  8. #1148
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    What I am about to say isn't personal or specifically directed at you. But I see a lot of people saying (including you yes), that "normal" people don't want to wipe on a boss more then 20 times. And as you stated their guild explodes.

    Tbh and I know Blizzard keeps getting to agree with "those" people more and more..... I think those people should not play this game. If you can't bother with wiping more then 20 times per boss - gtfo or raid LFR. People need to learn the fight. If they have trouble learning the fight and therefor not having fun... this is not the game for you.

    But whom am I kidding right - since probably the most cash is coming in from those players - I just have to accept that the current raids in ToT are badly tuned for "those" people.

    As a former hardcore/commited player, I truly despise people who play this game the way you described. "Having a laugh while drunk and still want to down a boss within 20 wipes."

    I totally dispise those players for ruining what use to be a good and for the most balanced game in terms of PVE. However since I do not do normals or heroic anymore, I stopped caring much about stuff like this. But yes sometimes my former attitude pops up when I just get too much input from comments like these
    Well, the first thing to realise is - wow is a business.

    Second one is that average and bad player massively outnumber you and have more money.

    Third one is, your feelings are not reciprocated by the casual or average, they don't even notice you.

  9. #1149
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    "Someone who opposes your point of view but can't find a fault with it will always nitpick where they can, it's rather sad" - my first politics teacher.


    I'm 7/12 pre nerf on normal. I'm not talking about my own experience, nor about what I myself enjoy.
    Ah, nitpicking? There is a big difference between 6 and 20 wipes. I presume before kills you are watching strategies on youtube? You have addons that tell you are standing in fire and you need to move?
    Imagine that you don't have that all. Man, the horror... Would you even raid then?
    I think it's rather sad that there are gamers here that rather spend their time on forums demanding for nerfs because hey, I can clear LFR but can't clear normal. Let's nerf normal so I can say I cleared it -.-
    And good for you that you are 7/12, that isn't the point. But you are more then half way there with only a month of raiding. That is very good for a normal raider who only raids normals.

  10. #1150
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Of those 700k guilds, only 40k killled Stone Guards normal, the rest dont raid and are therefore irelevant for the discussion.

    13k killed empress before 5.2. 18k killed empress as for today. Around 50% more, means a lot of people was trying to kill the bosses and were failing, and the fact that only 13k guilds have killed was not due to people not trying. The nerf was needed a long time ago (it was needed when it was current).

    Now, if you want to take the 660k guilds that dont even try to do the content because you have no real arguments, then i feel sorry for you.
    I wonder if my bank guild is tracked among those 700k guilds, probably not but maybe those levelling guilds are hmm?^^

    And again bear league 10 man raiding in wrath was better and did include more of those average players in raiding.
    But well sinse "raids" are now used more through LFR, we will probably never see a return to a pre-LFR age.
    It would be better if they removed LFR, and let raids be something that was player organised, then maybe it could feel like an mmo again for the raiders.
    and before people come with average players. Well the average player doesn't raid nor does he do LFR so what if there is some content that people have to organise for, it might even just be a bloody pug.

  11. #1151
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Ah, nitpicking? There is a big difference between 6 and 20 wipes. I presume before kills you are watching strategies on youtube? You have addons that tell you are standing in fire and you need to move?
    I'm happy to wipe dozens of times.
    Imagine that you don't have that all. Man, the horror... Would you even raid then?
    Seeing as I have been at it since vanilla beta, and my preferred way of pulling a boss is blind with no tactics given, yeah.
    I think it's rather sad that there are gamers here that rather spend their time on forums demanding for nerfs because hey, I can clear LFR but can't clear normal. Let's nerf normal so I can say I cleared it -.-
    And good for you that you are 7/12, that isn't the point. But you are more then half way there with only a month of raiding. That is very good for a normal raider who only raids normals.
    Yeah I know.

    I'm not talking about my experience, i'm talking about what the numbers, nerfs and competion rates indicate. Cos you know, I like the game as a whole and realise it needs the big playerbase to have raids at all. ;p

  12. #1152
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I'm happy to wipe dozens of times.


    Seeing as I have been at it since vanilla beta, and my preferred way of pulling a boss is blind with no tactics given, yeah.


    Yeah I know.

    I'm not talking about my experience, i'm talking about what the numbers, nerfs and competion rates indicate. Cos you know, I like the game as a whole and realise it needs the big playerbase to have raids at all. ;p
    Well, you are a raider then Let Blizzard use their data to figure what's best, as they did over the years. Fine, if there has to be middle ground so more ppl are happy it's ok. But you will never please everyone. There will always be guys who come here and demand nerfs, even with 30% nerfs. But normals can finally be normals, not PuG accessible content. At least until you overgear it.

  13. #1153
    Hey I know... let's nerf all the tests in schools aswell. My little daughter of 12 cannot go to college because well... she cba with actually studying. She wants to have a laugh and play with her friends. So because of this I want her to go to college (or anything that comes before going to university)... But well... schools have these tests and she is either too stupid or truly can't be arsed... I pay taxes and extras so my little girl can get there aswell. I mean people like that are the vast majority of people in the world... so by those standards...

  14. #1154
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Hey I know... let's nerf all the tests in schools aswell. My little daughter of 12 cannot go to college because well... she cba with actually studying. She wants to have a laugh and play with her friends. So because of this I want her to go to college (or anything that comes before going to university)... But well... schools have these tests and she is either too stupid or truly can't be arsed... I pay taxes and extras so my little girl can get there aswell. I mean people like that are the vast majority of people in the world... so by those standards...
    You are right - schools arbitarily stop people from doing things they are perfectly capable of doing based on whimsical criteria.

    You can also look at it that you pay the school to educate the kids and if the kids fail it's actually the school that is failing. kKd not interested? Schools fault. Kid can't learn? Schools fault. ANd obviously so.

    Not really on topic, however.

  15. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    You are right - schools arbitarily stop people from doing things they are perfectly capable of doing based on whimsical criteria.

    You can also look at it that you pay the school to educate the kids and if the kids fail it's actually the school that is failing. kKd not interested? Schools fault. Kid can't learn? Schools fault. ANd obviously so.

    Not really on topic, however.
    haha actually it is quite on topic. And yes what do we see in this thread? People blaming blizzard for their own inability to raid properly.

    Oh actually you are right it is not on topic. Where are all the raiders is the topic.

    Sorry people

  16. #1156
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    haha actually it is quite on topic. And yes what do we see in this thread? People blaming blizzard for their own inability to raid properly.

    Oh actually you are right it is not on topic. Where are all the raiders is the topic.

    Sorry people
    Why would you think it's anyone elses fault but blizzards? They have complete control over the game environment. Same wtih the schools.

  17. #1157
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Why would you think it's anyone elses fault but blizzards? They have complete control over the game environment. Same wtih the schools.
    The other problem with the school analogy is that schools presumably are training people to function in the outside world. A game has no such goal. The purpose of a game is to make the players happy so they send the company money. Period.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #1158
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Why would you think it's anyone elses fault but blizzards? They have complete control over the game environment. Same wtih the schools.
    Will all due respect to you or anyone. This is (as you pointed out) not on topic. So this is the last time I will respond to my own hijack of the thread.

    So you are a parent (or think that is the correct way to parent) who would be angry at a teacher or school because your child has a C/D/F on his/her rapportcard? Are you shitting me? Slap some willpower into your kid if you think your kid could/should do better. Now I am not saying I would SLAP my kid - I am just saying slap to get my point across.

  19. #1159
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Will all due respect to you or anyone. This is (as you pointed out) not on topic. So this is the last time I will respond to my own hijack of the thread.

    So you are a parent (or think that is the correct way to parent) who would be angry at a teacher or school because your child has a C/D/F on his/her rapportcard? Are you shitting me? Slap some willpower into your kid if you think your kid could/should do better. Now I am not saying I would SLAP my kid - I am just saying slap to get my point across.
    Yes, of course I would.

    it's a teachers job to make what they do attractive. They are the professionals. (One of my parents and one other family member are teachers btw.) if the kid is bored, it's the teachers fault. if the kid doesn't want to be there, again it's the teachers fault. If they find the subject boring, again teachers fault.

    Trained adults versus children? Shouldn't be a contest. if it is, someone sucks ass, and it's not the kids.

    to make it thread relevent - if blizzard can't make raiding attractive to the playerbase, it's not the playerbases fault. How could it be? it's not my job to work hard to make wow fun, it's wows job to entertain me.

  20. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Glorious Leader mate... take a chill pill concerning this topic mate. It seems that you get more and more frustrated everyday in this topic. We all can't help the fact that you couldn't properly heal Tortos. And I am not even saying that is your fault. There are numbers of reasons why this might be.

    example:
    1. yes ok, your skill - but since you were kind enough to let us know that you never ever had this same experience - I'll call this one false
    2. your guildies suck - could be I haven't heard any evidence to the contrary. However me stating this doesn't make it true, I don't know your guildies
    3. the encounter is not friendly to paladins - this I can sorta say is true. I am a holy paladin. I find it "frustrating" to not be able to run and heal at the same time. And thus this encounter sucks for me. Still I feel I got this fight under control. But I have only LFR experience on this one. So it is def. not the same.
    4. the fight is badly tuned. This could be the case. Still I believe that this fight is pretty good under the assumption that not every class is perfect for every fight. I'd say druids might have a blast healing this fight. Is that bad? No not as long as people can down this fight. And not everyone is meant to down everything. But I don't have the numbers to prove if this fight is badly tuned or not. Time will tell.

    I am with you on a lot of points in your previous posts. But I do not agree or want normal to be like Cata/WOTLK normal -where bosses could be oneshotted. I have had my fairshare of those bosses and that utterly sucks. Sure we all laugh and say "haha we're good!" While we just as well have said: "geez could Blizzard not have done a better job at making this atleast challenging?"

    What I do like is where LFR is going now. The fights there are from my pov better/more challenging. I am not saying they are difficult. But atleast you can wipe inthere and sometimes more then once.

    My advice to you and your guild (based on your posts): Go back farming/defeating content you haven't killed yet and then come back. Perhaps by that time the fights have been tuned more to your liking and you and your guild can have a sense of accomplishment that you completed an instance. And I don't mean this condensending (spelling?) either. I think this would be the best advice as long as the fights are - from what you tell me - too hard.
    1. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...er/Dhcp/simple Couple of heroic firelands achieves when it was current (including bethliac) raided the rest on normal and have been raiding on various other tunes at various other difficulties for years. NEVER I repeat NEVER had a problem with normal raids. I have heroic ToES (have the helm to but it doesn't track for some reason)
    2. You can look through my guild. Some are server first actually. Got a death's demise enchance shaman. We are in almost universal agreement. Normals are the new heroics. Some of them are actually happy about this change. Others not so much.
    3. The encounter is indeed not friendly to holy paladins and megara is only slightly better. The same problem that afflicts tortos afflicts megara by the 5th or 6th head. Constant running around, avoiding everything on the fucking field as an obstacle course and almost NEVER any time to hard cast a spell.
    4. Tortos is not only badly tuned, it's mechanically overwhelming. I would suspect that the nerfs to previous bosses would suggest that the raid is poorly tuned (and in my opinion ill conceived mechanic wise) but I don't think you take that as evidence anyway. It's a couple things that make the fights unfun. If I avoid dmg from a boss mechanic I don't understand why I should still be taking dmg from it. Nobody actually get's hit by rock slide in the raid but guess what everyone takes dmg from rock slide, the same applies to megaras green explosion thing. The game is visually overwhelming now. Constant shit on the ground, sometimes it becomes very hard to see what you can and can't dodge (even though I still manage for the most part it is a strain). Finally the raids are just to busy. Seriously. Theirs just to much shit going on. Everything feels just complicated for the sake of complicated. They can't just through a couple of mechanics at you that you can master they have to punish you by constantly adding more and more. It's frustrating because it makes my job so much harder and I liked my job. Healing is fun. Well healing used to be fun. It isn't fun in ToT and I'm thinking about trying another roll or maybe quitting raiding altogether. I don't know I like my guild.

    Look no offense you've only raided LFR apparently but you somehow have the temerity and the nerve to tell me that it's not the raids fault? You must be joking. Step into normals, get your ass handed to and then come back and tell me otherwise. My guild doesn't need your advice, were doing fine without it. We've been able to manage a steady boss a week but it hasn't been fun and we dread the future raids. Were not fucking cowards or pussies so we still get up and do it and we like each others company enough that even THIS raid as shitty as it is we still manage to get along well. We don't need to kill old bosses, we need BLizzard to design better new bosses. My suspicion is that once they start to recieve more "data" you'll see nerfs to the later fights as well.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-04-12 at 01:55 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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