When to start tot?

[Kzemi]

I know people say its tuned for 496, but should we start progressing when we hit 496, or keep going till 16/16?

[Sesshou]

I know people say its tuned for 496, but should we start progressing when we hit 496, or keep going till 16/16?

You don't need 496. The first guy is probably not even that challenging at 483 (tier 14 lfr level). You can kill Horridron with 493-495 if you can do the mechanics (numerous people confirmed that their guild did him at that level in the 30+ page horridron thread, quite a few were pre nerf). You can probably also do council in that ilvl now that it has gotten a sizable nerf (and if you are 10m, you can apparently cheese it to avoid Sul's empower). The turtle and on might be a road block till you get more gear though (or until they nerf the crap out of it like the 2nd and 3rd bosses).

Only thing to keep in mind is that in terms of number of important mechanics, most ToT normal mode bosses have significantly more than normal mode t14 bosses (and more than quite a few of the t14 heroic bosses), so even if you have the gear to be there, don't expect stuff to fall over before you invest enough time for your raid to master the mechanics.

[Deja Thoris]

Do the first boss in ToT. If you can't kill it in 5 pulls keep trying till you do then go back to t14. If you do kill it quickly then try horridon, if you can't kill it quickly then don't try horridon :P

[Drikkink]

The first boss is a loot pinata getting you 522 gear for a boss that's easier than anything in T14.

[rated]

I know people say its tuned for 496, but should we start progressing when we hit 496, or keep going till 16/16?

If you got a skilled group of DPS, tanks & healers then yeah for sure go into ToT right away.

The more information you provide the better answer we can give. Your raid could be all 496 ilvl, but all your DPS could be really bad and got carried to that ilvl making an "ideal ilvl" to start ToT hard to estimate.

I don't see why a guild around 490ish ilvl can't start progress in ToT.

[IxilaFA]

Definitely go for Jin'Rokh, since he's easier than anything in T14 (so long as you have an average ilvl over 480). Then I'd say try Horridon, but don't be fooled by the people so far in this thread. For a guild that is not coordinated, maybe you're still learning to play with each other or whatever, Horridon will be a very challenging boss. I found him almost harder than anything in Normal T14 (maybe the exception being Elegon pre-nerf or Empress).

[Sesshou]

If you got a skilled group of DPS, tanks & healers then yeah for sure go into ToT right away.

The more information you provide the better answer we can give. Your raid could be all 496 ilvl, but all your DPS could be really bad and got carried to that ilvl making an "ideal ilvl" to start ToT hard to estimate.

I don't see why a guild around 490ish ilvl can't start progress in ToT.

Yeah, it really isn't about ilvl (at least for the first bosses). It is about whether or not your raid can handle a ton of important mechanics for a normal mode encounter.

So I guess basically what I'm saying is, if your ilvl is 490-496 because either you didn't raid enough (as in you would have gotten everything on normal if you added more time to your raiding schedule) or you got some horrid rng, you will be fine. If your ilvl is that low because you were blocked in t14 progression on normal modes by mechanics, then everything after the first boss is probably going to murder you and you will probably want to farm the first boss, get 522 vp items, and farm lfr until you out gear the mechanics.

[Vanden]

I think you could easily get the first 3 with minimal gear after the nerfs. You could potentially get Tortos if you have a solid group but he is probably the hardest of the first 6 on 10 man after the nerfs. Jin'rokh is free loot if you're not in all blues, Horridon is more coordination than anything else, and Council is pretty simple as well once you understand the empowerments. I wouldn't recommend trying to do the burn Sul strat with lower gear, though. Honestly just give it a go, even if some of it is harder than what you have left in t14 the gear is much better so it'll be worth it.

[Demeia]

Definitely go for Jin'Rokh, since he's easier than anything in T14 (so long as you have an average ilvl over 480). Then I'd say try Horridon, but don't be fooled by the people so far in this thread. For a guild that is not coordinated, maybe you're still learning to play with each other or whatever, Horridon will be a very challenging boss. I found him almost harder than anything in Normal T14 (maybe the exception being Elegon pre-nerf or Empress).

He's been about as hard as Elegon pre-nerf for us. We don't do very well on the parts that are "easy" never mind the parts that are midly challenging (door 3 and 4) for the better raids. So I imagine we'll end up clearing door four and then end up wiping on the boss for another 10+ attempts.

Most normal mode raids carry people. That won't work very well for you here.

[Deleted]

Hardest part is to kick bad players from your raid, and then recruit good ones. If they cant manage to improve without you babysitting them, theyll fail on every new thing to come.

[Cirque]

We've been doing some ToT bosses on our ~495 geared alts, only one night though and we killed megaera before calling it a night.

Why don't you try, especially the first boss is quite easily managable, and nice loot for you to progress with.

---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 05:45 AM ----------

Hardest part is to kick bad players from your raid, and then recruit good ones. If they cant manage to improve without you babysitting them, theyll fail on every new thing to come.

I think you grossly underestimate the difficulty of "finding good players" when you're a guild with no real progress going, especially if you have competition from guilds who have. My sister in law runs a guild like that and was forced to migrate because the actual good players gravitated to the guilds with more progress.

---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 05:46 AM ----------

He's been about as hard as Elegon pre-nerf for us. We don't do very well on the parts that are "easy" never mind the parts that are midly challenging (door 3 and 4) for the better raids. So I imagine we'll end up clearing door four and then end up wiping on the boss for another 10+ attempts.

Most normal mode raids carry people. That won't work very well for you here.

If you clear the doors on normal, you pretty much got the boss (if I remember, this is not the case on heroic). Anyway, if Horridon is such a cockblock for you, drop it for now and go back to t14, no shame in that, just have fun!