Our 25m raid is just bad. The RL is 6/12 with his 10m team but has trouble leading the 25m team to kill Tortos with 3 nights of attempts. From what I see, we have 3-4 bad ranged dps/healers, who keep dying at some point from rockfall or the bats (we kite the bats). Sometimes the ranged dps is not high enough to get the turtles down fast enough. Our best try was around 30% and even if we do kill it finally I dont see how we can do it consistently, just like we were stuck on council for a while after getting the first kill. Does my raid sound hopeless? It's gonna suck so much if I quit because I have not even gotten one loot and have not used 1 dkp.