Would you like Asian 10/25 model

[Deleted]

Raiding with 10 people you know well and can rely on is way better than raiding with a bunch of strangers whose names and voices you can't even remember. So... enjoy it, even if you prefer the larger sized raid.

Playing long enough in a 25 man guild and you will know the names and voices of all 25 people and know you can rely on them aswell.

[Seriss]

Playing long enough in a 25 man guild and you will know the names and voices of all 25 people and know you can rely on them aswell.

Been there, done that. And nope. Or the 2 25-mans that I've been in since BC up until MoP (when I went 10-man with some lovely and good people) were all just not really social and such.

[Avengerx]

I love all these "hurr durr 25 man is real raiding period" posts. Each has it's pros and cons. You can gear up the entire group way faster in 25 man and that's what counts in the long run I would say.
But back on topic I have a feeling if this change would happen it would totally crush 10 man raiding as most would feel inclined to search for a 25 man group.

I still think the best solution would be dynamic raid numbers with like a 10 mans base hp/damage for mobs/bosses and it increases for each extra raider by x%, get increasingly more loot with the number of players present etc.

[Drayarr]

I dont personally, I do however want asian logs / characters removed from rankings as its unfair on the "rest" of us

[Seriss]

I still think the best solution would be dynamic raid numbers with like a 10 mans base hp/damage for mobs/bosses and it increases for each extra raider by x%, get increasingly more loot with the number of players present etc.

You'd also need to adjust number of debuffs going out, numbers of adds, amount of people needed to perform special tasks etc. Or else bringing more people will make the encounter exceedingly easier.

[Secrecy]

I still think the best solution would be dynamic raid numbers with like a 10 mans base hp/damage for mobs/bosses and it increases for each extra raider by x%, get increasingly more loot with the number of players present etc.

This would not work, boss abilities aren't scalable like health is. There would always be a sweet spot. Take Heroic Sha for example, on 10-man you get 3 huddles and 5 on 25-man. Every raid would go with a number of players that is just under what would get them an extra huddle. So if you got 4 huddles with 15 people and 5 huddles with 20 people, every raid would have to go with either 14 or 19 players. There would then probably be other factors that make one of these two options preferable.

You wouldn't be allowing more options, you would be making specific raid sizes for each boss. It would be an absolute nightmare.

[Deleted]

Raiding with 10 people you know well and can rely on is way better than raiding with a bunch of strangers whose names and voices you can't even remember. So... enjoy it, even if you prefer the larger sized raid. They both have their advantages and disadvantages in regards to people. But yes, it IS hard to find people who fit in with the rest of the crowd in regards to skill and expectations. We've had the problem in 25-man and we still have it even today in our comfy little 10-man.

The only reason why I sometimes regret having made the switch from 25 to 10 man these days is that 25 man felt much easier to me because I had more specialised tasks as opposed to today where literally everything is my responsibility to take care of.

I dread to think how your social life in school went if you struggle to remember 25 names and voices.

[Avengerx]

As you describe it boss abilities at the moment are certainly scaleable (3 huddles on 10, 5 on 25 seems like scaling to me) and besides this they could still scale the damage the ability does compared to the nr. of raiders. Yes this would mean that both the developers and the raid leaders would have to think things through a bit but at least it would definitely give more options to the few people that would be left out of the raid due to size limit.
e.g: for a progression run, (10 man raid) you have 11-12 signed up, you take 10 for optimal setup, later on farm you could take all 11-12.

[MasterHamster]

Letting 25man guilds also do 10m is incredibly unfair.

[Marooned]

No thanks. Why destroy all the 10man guilds?

Well not really, go check wowprogress of asian realms, 95% of top 50 guilds in each realm are strict 10 man.

I'm thinking what would 10man raiders who are against TF dropping more for 25man say, if they create a 2man or (3man) raid rewarding the same gear? Could 10man raid survive? or 2man raid would be very popular if rewards are the same? What is your stance on this?

[kenshinag]

I say no to the 10 year old however yes, I would like an asian 25 year old model.

[Nevor]

Right now 25m raids gear their groups up three times faster than 10m raids when it comes to Thunderforged gear.

how do you come to this conclusion?
10man (10% chance) = 1% per person
25man (25% chance) = 1% per person
seems to me that every person has the same chance to get a thunderforged item no matter if 10 or 25 man raid...

[Drayarr]

how do you come to this conclusion?
10man (10% chance) = 1% per person
25man (25% chance) = 1% per person
seems to me that every person has the same chance to get a thunderforged item no matter if 10 or 25 man raid...

10man = 10% chance per item to be TF
25man = 25% chance per item to be TF
more likely?

[Avengerx]

You'd also need to adjust number of debuffs going out, numbers of adds, amount of people needed to perform special tasks etc. Or else bringing more people will make the encounter exceedingly easier.

You are totally right about this, the developers + beta testers would have to finetune stuff a bit more than usual and there would have to be breakpoints for the above mentioned stuff.
I'm not saying this is perfect or anything but I think it would make that few lone people much happier who got left out of a raid cause of bad roll etc...

[Vokal]

No thank you.

It's fine the way it is.

[Tyraena]

how do you come to this conclusion?
10man (10% chance) = 1% per person
25man (25% chance) = 1% per person
seems to me that every person has the same chance to get a thunderforged item no matter if 10 or 25 man raid...

No, the 10% chance for TF is per drop, not person.

10% on 2 items (10 man) is a 5% chance of a item being TF, with a roughly 19% chance of any person winning it (based on failbag drop rates published today, and not including bonus rolls).

25% on 4 items (25 man) is a 6.25% chance, with the same 19% chance of any person winning.

And to clarify, those 19% don't have to add to 100%. The game just rolls out for each person, top 4 wins.

This means that, yes, 25 has a base chance of gearing TF gear faster. But not significantly so.

[Deleted]

25 man drops 6 items...
So it is 1,5 thunderforged per boss vs 0,20.

To be equal, 25s should be normalized at 0,50 per boss (2,5 times more than 10 man for 2,5 times more people).

It is 7,5 times more instead, leading to a triple thunderforged item ratio in 25s in combarison to 10s (2,5X3=7,5).

[Sianl]

Its better then the current system, so yes.

[Deleted]

Been there, done that. And nope. Or the 2 25-mans that I've been in since BC up until MoP (when I went 10-man with some lovely and good people) were all just not really social and such.

Well, every guild is different. The last 25 guild I was in had RL meetings twice a year which often had about 80-90% attendancy. It was great fun.

[Gruck]

No thanks. This would only force people to do both each week in order to compete in terms of gear. I had to run both 10 and 25 in WotLK and didn't like it. Furthermore, there is enough to do anyways without the separate lockout.