Would you like Asian 10/25 model

[PrairieChicken]

Currently in Asia :

1. 25 man drops 8 ilvl higher loot (so 10man is 0/2 upgrade, 25man is 2/4 upgrade)

2. Thunderforged works the same (10man 10%, 25man 25%)

3. 1 and 2 can overlap (So 25 man thunderforged would have 8+6=14 higher ilvl compared to 10 ordinary)

4. Seperate lockouts (forgot to add)

5. 25 man has 8% higher damage and HP (again forgot to add)


Well I know the consequences that followed, but I ask non-Asian realm people would you take the model if its available?

[Akylios]

Right now 25m raids gear their groups up three times faster than 10m raids when it comes to Thunderforged gear. This already serves to nerf the long term difficulty of 25m raids quite considerably in comparison to their 10m counterparts. To randomly throw them an extra 8 ilvl boost on top of that, before we've even had time to evaluate the new thunderforged system, would be ridiculously premature. Seriously, there must be a limit to the benefits you get from raiding on the 25m format, or Blizzard will eventually just give 25m raids the 10m version of each fight and say 'there, kill that'.

Just wait and see how the TF system turns out?

[Arbs]

There are no shared lockouts, I'm Game.

[MrExcelion]

I liked the model in Wrath, I'm down for it.

[Spotnick]

You make it sound like gear is the only difference, not the different lockout and raid damage/health pools.

[Blood Fox]

oh god no, Internet doesn't like 25m's very much. This this tier fights are easier on 25m for a good amount of them, and they have a higher chance of thunder forged, do you need anymore?

I shouldn't be valued any less for my progression because I choose the 10m route.

[Deleted]

I would like it more than what we have, since it reinstates a sense of "order" and "reason" in the game.

Thats a completely theoritical question though.
A change like that would definately have a negative impact in the game and would do nothing to stop quarrels.

If i was to be asked i would go for option no3, the one that a Blizzard dev said that it would be "punishing for both 10 and 25 ppl raiders alike" (a good sign that they still have no idea, or that they talk like politicians using oversimplification and overgeneralizations all the time).
Do i have to mention option no3?
Delete 10, delete 25, one -single size- in between (15 or 20).

[Mersynd]

I don't mind the way it is now. I would prefer Heroic and Normal lockouts to be separated, but not 10 and 25. The separation between 10 and 25 was really nice for a lot of players and it would ruin a lot of guilds that have worked hard to establish a well formed group for years. I would also like to add that I like how WoWProgress separated the Asians from EU/US because of the new system over there, but I think WoL needs to do the same now because we simply can't compete with their damage and healing.

[Deleted]

What is wrong with you people saying no, and or asking for 10&25m removal and addition of 15mans, why cant we simply have 10,15,20,25m lockouts, NO shared lockouts, and you cant get achievements from 20m wearing 25m gear for example. I dont want to live in this world anymore.

[Definition]

haha, no way, if I was running raids that much, i'd burn the fuck out so quick.

[Sierra85]

No thanks. Why destroy all the 10man guilds?

[Deleted]

What is wrong with you people saying no, and or asking for 10&25m removal and addition of 15mans, why cant we simply have 10,15,20,25m lockouts, NO shared lockouts, and you cant get achievements from 20m wearing 25m gear for example. I dont want to live in this world anymore.

Because progresive raiding would have become so demanding that would simply stop existing should you placed 4 sizes in and without shared lockout.
I am prompting you to Premonition's announcemend over the reasons that drove them into stopping progresive raiding right after Dragon Soul. And imagine that with the proposed suggustion, that burdain would have been quadrabled.
Already another element is into play for the min maxers. Thunderforged items that will make them farm the raid non stop till the next one, depending on RnG. Combine that with the open sudject of item upgrading system, that again might make a return at patch 5.3.
Those guilds are trying to cover every aspect of preparation. Imagine to have to farm 10/15/20/25 content same week.

As for the reason that the removal of 10/25 is asked for, again it is tyed to where the game is right now and where it was, combined with the fact that a return to wrath model right now would cause huge problems to those that went with the flow and downsized already (and irrevocably).

As for the last suggestion of yours, that implies gear scaling from mode to mode (better loot for bigger raid size), id add that 4 different gear sets, each suitable for you to claim the achivement on the size you re running, would mean 4X16=64 items in your backpack.

I really fail to see why raiding should be so complicated.
Why dungeons are not 5 and 10 for examble?
Why to have two or more sizes for the same encounter if the one of the choices is not Viable to begin with for the majority of playerbase either for progression path (strict 10 man being trumbled by people with 25 gear in progress ranks), or as a size of choice when "all else are equal", since this way 10 keeps all the benefits without a single set back.

i really dont see a reason behind all of the above besides one, single, obvious reason. The old and still standing 25s.
But in the process, for those guilds not to feel bad, so many other people felt bad and quarelled for 1.000.000 reasons regarding, loot, which one is tougher, is it legit to have 1 world first and 1 realm first etc etc.

Does it worth it? Thats the question to be answered in the bottom line.

[Makarena]

yes, I'd be able to farm ultraxion/alysrazor 2 times per week instead of once on each char

[Dudemanguy]

If there are no shared lockouts, then yes i'd like it this way.

Very similar to the Wrath model, which I liked a lot.

[Nelle]

10 man is discount raiding and should get discount loot.

I'm game!

---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 12:37 PM ----------

No thanks. Why destroy all the 10man guilds?

Because it is discount raiding and not much MMO-like.

[Enosh]

and not much MMO-like.

meaningless term

[Nelle]

meaningless term

Remind me again what the first M in MMO stands for. Thank You! Personally I look at 10man raiders as lesser gamers, people who jumped the lower fence or picked "rookie" at the start menu of a game.

[Secrecy]

Remind me again what the first M in MMO stands for. Thank You! Personally I look at 10man raiders as lesser gamers, people who jumped the lower fence or picked "rookie" at the start menu of a game.

While I agree that 10-man is the easier difficulty, I think you're analogy is completely incorrect. We were a 2-3 day a week 25-man guild in T14, we went 10-man for this tier because we wanted to raid hardcore again. It was proving incredibly difficult to recruit a couple of people during T14 so we could just continue raiding with 25 people let alone replace the masses we would lose when we decided to increase our raiding days for T15.

25-man is real raiding, but for us and many people it's not a choice that we get to make. It was either continue struggling to field a raid on a casual schedule, or go 10-man and raid a lot more and actually get decent rankings. If we could get 15 additional people at all close to the skill level of our 10-man group we would do it in a heartbeat.

[SL1200]

I'd go for anything that would get the 10 and 25 man lockouts separated again. Sure would help take some of the bite out of there not being new 5 mans to do until next October.

[Seriss]

25-man is real raiding, but for us and many people it's not a choice that we get to make. It was either continue struggling to field a raid on a casual schedule, or go 10-man and raid a lot more and actually get decent rankings. If we could get 15 additional people at all close to the skill level of our 10-man group we would do it in a heartbeat.

Raiding with 10 people you know well and can rely on is way better than raiding with a bunch of strangers whose names and voices you can't even remember. So... enjoy it, even if you prefer the larger sized raid. They both have their advantages and disadvantages in regards to people. But yes, it IS hard to find people who fit in with the rest of the crowd in regards to skill and expectations. We've had the problem in 25-man and we still have it even today in our comfy little 10-man.

The only reason why I sometimes regret having made the switch from 25 to 10 man these days is that 25 man felt much easier to me because I had more specialised tasks as opposed to today where literally everything is my responsibility to take care of.