WoW has a generation problem

[Razorice]

As much as I'd like WoW to be less casual-friendly, It won't be. Blizzard is a company and they want to appeal to the majority for profit.

[BHD]

I don't think the majority of players are young............ But I don't have any numbers, so I can't be certain.

In my experience, most people I've encountered are teens. Although, that's certainly a very small % of the wow playerbase. I wouldn't necessarily say that WoW is in decline, but the game has lost a lot of players over the years, which is certainly natural for any game. But, since there still around 10m players, there has to be new ones coming in. I just think it's much more likely that a 15 year old who just got his/her own PC picks up WoW rather than someone with a fulltime job that might also have to take care of a family. But overall, with WoW being a very lighthearted game, I do believe they target teens more so than adults. Even if the best of the best players probably are above 20.

[Razorice]

In my experience, most people I've encountered are teens.

For me it's the contrary, most people I know/encounter are over 20 years old. I see a few teens here and there though...

[Flaks]

The problem with WoW is that it focuses too heavily on items. People have been gradually shifting from the experience and challenge and entertainment and social interaction towards, "I just want that item".

This. The game's gone the direction of Diablo. I don't know if it's because that's what players wanted or because Blizzard kept nudging the player base that way but it is what it is now.

[Strakha]

This is a bunch of crap, I guarantee the OP was born past 1990 and he just feels old for the first time.

Guess what? Old is not old in the land of gaming. Most of the best players I've played with were older than me, I was born in the early 80s and anytime we have a younger player in our league team for TF2 or our arena team for WoW it is them that needs to learn.

They make bad choices in the game, rash choices, immediate responses to things that can take 5-10 seconds to respond to. They commit errors when thought can be more prudent and I think that is the lash of the OP, they made a wrong mistake on the rash attitude of their youth, saw it happen again in a more egregious fashion and now chooses to condemn those that are as weak or weaker than them.

Think more, react more slowly. This game is not speed chess.

[Rotted]

I agree pretty much with what most people are saying in replies,

but for the record, your branding cod (not sure about halo) a pick up and put down game, I don't personally see how wow is any different to that, also if you put the time into playing cod, you'd see there is a lot of friken grinding to "level" (promote), ignoring the achievement list to unlock, you've also got to grind to upgrade anything you use, (not throw gold at it) and if you want it to be "shiny" you've got to do a stupid amount of head shots, then a insane amount of other achievements on top of that,

sound familiar?

[Strakha]

Nice that you follow in the footsteps of the great philosophers ""The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers."

Attributed to Socrates or Plato...

It was probably some low level person that nobody ever bothered to investigate because it was too boring or too expensive. Nobody cares about a school that talks about someone who isn't already famous.

[spectrefax]

I as actually talking about this same subject last night.

What WoW is today and what the MMORPG genre was 8 years ago are two completely different things. Honestly, if you took the WoW of today back 8 years and showed it to people, aside from the graphics and character references, they would have no idea it was the same game. When game companies see the success of Facebook game companies like Zynga, it's no wonder they're trying to get a piece of that pie. Blizzard has actively been pursing more "social network-ish" style gaming and will likely continue to do so.

The original MMORPG genre is dead in western civilization and I really don't see it ever coming back.

[Deleted]

OP never said the game has become easier.

But that was he was meaning like all thoses fakely nostalgic peoples.
Also i was only saying that skill replaced investment.

[Strakha]

I as actually talking about this same subject last night.

What WoW is today and what the MMORPG genre was 8 years ago are two completely different things. Honestly, if you took the WoW of today back 8 years and showed it to people, aside from the graphics and character references, they would have no idea it was the same game. When game companies see the success of Facebook game companies like Zynga, it's no wonder they're trying to get a piece of that pie. Blizzard has actively been pursing more "social network-ish" style gaming and will likely continue to do so.

The original MMORPG genre is dead in western civilization and I really don't see it ever coming back.

The problem with 8 years ago is that it was a broken game. I struggle to read comments about how WoW used to be better. I remember doing heroic TBC dungeons and it would take sometimes 1-2 hours to do a dungeon (Alcatraz wtf.) and you'd just be happy to get an item in a week, between 25s and just hoping people would show up, cause 10m loot was garbage and nobody wanted to even strive for it, unless it was karazhan, which included the bonus in t4 of trying to turn 2 groups of 10 into 25, wtf, etc.

Now there is that set queue of valor points, you know you can't get a big item in a week, but maybe that glove or trinket if you had a bit left over. But there is also the realization you will get the item, it's not some hit or miss scenario like it was in TBC, which everyone thinks was awesome. I will take the ability to rely on getting an item over the ability to try to get an item.

I want character progression and in the system in MoP I am more likely to be able to control the progression of my characters, and that is a good thing. Dedication should not be rewarded by RNG, it should be awarded by showing up.

[Prokne]

This. The game's gone the direction of Diablo. I don't know if it's because that's what players wanted or because Blizzard kept nudging the player base that way but it is what it is now.

IMO Blizzard has a problem with blending its games together. Its happening because the same people work on all 3 games. So what you get is Diablo-like talent system in WoW, WoW crafting and farming in Diablo, and Diablo hero characters in WC3 and SC2. Several of the SC2 campaign missions feel like you are playing Diablo except your barbarian is Kerrigan and you are fighting a big zerg instead of a demon. One of the fights was almost exactly like Belial. Im sure they do this for budget reasons since why hire more people when you can have everyone do everything. But what is happening is that you get games that are very similar that shouldnt be and longer development times than there should be(1.5 years for a SC2 exp, 5 years for D3 after they announced it, longer than promised time between WoW expansions).

As far as the gear part I think it was always there but more people have access to items now. When it required a lot of work to raid and time investment a lot of people probably didnt think they would ever get the stuff so they didnt try but now the items are available so they go out to get them.

[spectrefax]

The problem with 8 years ago is that it was a broken game. I struggle to read comments about how WoW used to be better. I remember doing heroic TBC dungeons and it would take sometimes 1-2 hours to do a dungeon (Alcatraz wtf.) and you'd just be happy to get an item in a week, between 25s and just hoping people would show up, cause 10m loot was garbage and nobody wanted to even strive for it, unless it was karazhan, which included the bonus in t4 of trying to turn 2 groups of 10 into 25, wtf, etc.

Now there is that set queue of valor points, you know you can't get a big item in a week, but maybe that glove or trinket if you had a bit left over. But there is also the realization you will get the item, it's not some hit or miss scenario like it was in TBC, which everyone thinks was awesome. I will take the ability to rely on getting an item over the ability to try to get an item.

I want character progression and in the system in MoP I am more likely to be able to control the progression of my characters, and that is a good thing. Dedication should not be rewarded by RNG, it should be awarded by showing up.

Which is exactly my point. This type of thinking and the gameplay surrounding it is a completely different genre than what original MMORPGs were. If you think taking 1-2 hours to do a dungeon or get 1 upgrade a week was "bad" or "hardcore" then you must not have ever played the older games that created this genre. And, it's not a matter of it being "broken," "harcore," or whatever. WoW is simply a part of a different genre now that is not an MMORPG.

I don't classify WoW as a true MMORPG anymore, it's simply a MMO game. Comparing WoW to a true MMORPG is like comparing an apple to a socket wrench.

[Deleted]

IMO Blizzard has a problem with blending its games together. Its happening because the same people work on all 3 games. So what you get is Diablo-like talent system in WoW, WoW crafting and farming in Diablo, and Diablo hero characters in WC3 and SC2. Several of the SC2 campaign missions feel like you are playing Diablo except your barbarian is Kerrigan and you are fighting a big zerg instead of a demon. One of the fights was almost exactly like Belial. Im sure they do this for budget reasons since why hire more people when you can have everyone do everything. But what is happening is that you get games that are very similar that shouldnt be and longer development times than there should be(1.5 years for a SC2 exp, 5 years for D3 after they announced it, longer than promised time between WoW expansions).

As far as the gear part I think it was always there but more people have access to items now. When it required a lot of work to raid and time investment a lot of people probably didnt think they would ever get the stuff so they didnt try but now the items are available so they go out to get them.

The real problem is players who thinks that everything which is new must be bad and that older means better, so they are finding fake reasons about why new games sucks cause they want to be seen by other peoples as ancients.
For exemple, I've seen peoples saying that the first Diablo is better than Diablo III.
I played it on the first PlayStation and it's IMPOSSIBLE to HONESTLY think that it's better than Diablo III. Diablo II may be better than Diablo III, but not Diablo (the first one)

[Deleted]

There are so many different games out there, even in the same genre. Games have to compete for players' attention. If players have to go through a grind they find boring, they'll just go play something else. Extra Credits just came out with a video about intrinsic and extrinsic rewards.

Hmm... when was it that I last played a game just for the gameplay, and not for the rewards that await me at the end?

I no longer do because I enjoy spending time, trying to get those items from the hardest bosses, and train my character to the max. You can't really do that in an first person shooter or a puzzle game. For me, a good game is always about(or at least heavily leaned towards) character progression.

[Magpai]

Funny, my biggest gripe with the WoW community is that they're TOO willing to put time into WoW. Then anytime new stuff to do comes out they whine and bitch about "BEING FORCED TO DO IT! STOP MAKING ME HAVE FUN!"

[Deleted]

Yeah WoW's kind of trying too hard to please everyone out there. Fair enough I mean they're trying to run a business or whatever and want to make money.

Doesn't Everquest 1 still have people playing? I'm pretty sure there's still room for MMO's, just not 14 million people playing one.

[zshikara]

No matter how things go, there will always be a specific crowd that love RPGs. I will always be in that crowd. I love grinding and the feeling that I truely earned what I have gotten.

[sidenorna]

There are so many different games out there, even in the same genre. Games have to compete for players' attention. If players have to go through a grind they find boring, they'll just go play something else. Extra Credits just came out with a video about intrinsic and extrinsic rewards.

I could go off on how this video sounds so good but how it misses the point but I will simple put to you this way. I as a player enjoy getting a reward more because it came after something hard or punishing. It is the contrast that makes the game as a whole more fun.

[BHD]

But that was he was meaning like all thoses fakely nostalgic peoples.
Also i was only saying that skill replaced investment.

Yeah, let's make up things about everyone. That certainly leads to a good discussion. OP think this game has been losing players due to how much the game has changed. It changed because we're now 8 years past launch and gamers have a different mindset. OP knows this, as he said himself, but he doesn't approve of the new mindset. Nowhere did he say or imply that the game has become easier. It's not about grinding/farming anymore, something that used to define WoW, and other games of its genre. Did you even read his/her posts?

[Beat5beat]

People don't have the time nor the need to be part of a virtual community; so we see a decline in community. People just aren't investing in that anymore.
People don't need grinds, they want to see the rewards quickly.
People don't want to hang in the middle of the content, they want to clear it all before the next patch hits.

These changes, I find logical, seeing the changes happening to our lives now.

Except these changes ignore human psychology. While I could go on for pages and pages about the psychology behind requiring effort to receive reward, I'll explain it with 1 very very simple example. Ask yourself this question, once you have activated the cheat codes on a game, for how much longer does the game hold your interest?