[Resto] Disappointed

[Blackflag421]

Rdruids are good. The problem is like others have stated in this thread, disc priest and hpallies are also good and their absorbs > your hots. I OS resto, and the few fights in my 10m raid where I tried healing I had like 50%+ overhealing because our 2 main healers are... a disc priest and holy pally!

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Rdruids are fine. Pallies and priests are slightly better, but Druids perform equal to or better than monks and shamans. It's easier to play bad and put out higher hps as a pally or priest because of how absorbs work, which may be why bad players might think they're far and away OP.

It's almost like some people in this thread think raids should only run 5 pallies. No one needs to explain why that's a stupid sentiment nowadays.

Mushrooms are awesome, but do require some thinking and skill to use effectively. When you do, they contribute millions of healing for very little mana cost. It has a use on almost every fight.

[Deleted]

You kinda sound like 'because resto would be amazing if your fellow healers suck' they are still competitive.
1 sample, from 1 specific raid setup won't prove anything. Try healing with a disc and a pala, you will feel useless, especially because pala's don't only have amazing absorbs they are also build to top people. Wich will work bad for druids, overhealing wise.

I don't think anyone questions the potential strenght of resto druids, but if it doesn't show it is kinda pointless. The logs you show depends alot on what strat you use, if you kill blue on mageara that will automatically improve resto druids. How you are able to outheal a disc there is a riddle to me though, they can negate the damage from the rampage, i can only assume he lets you have some fun, or he is just really really bad.

Iron qon and especially 3? healing twins is not even a sample, those bosses barely need healing.

In the end we are in a better spot then t14, not sure why exactly since mushrooms are not that good on most fights. I can still keep up the once in a while i heal, although i lack alot of mastery because im MS dps.

like i said, druids healin is decent if its ALLOWED to be... i never said its better than a paladin tho, disc is very fight dependent. Most fights, like in them logs the priest is doin that kinda healing thro atonement alone.... if he played properly and timed his SS better etc... then ye, he prob would be way higher than me.. but hes playing the "support roll" of healin thro atonement and doin a lot of dmg at the same time.

as for the 3 healing comment... it was 1st time we done it, we didnt know if it was 2 or 3 healable... we 2 healed most the boss's this week. But again... 2 3 4 5 healing a boss.. who cares as the outcome is always the same = boss is dead and u got loot. for example, why struggle to 3 heal grand empress heroic when u can easily 4 heal it and not be stressed?

i also agree mushrooms are rather useless now, the 3x GCDs is a real bother sometimes, and it causes me to not use them cause i simply dont have time to spend the 3x gcds on them.

should be 1 gcd to place all 3.. or an option to place 1/2/3 at same time but gives it a bigger cd or something, eg 1=10secs, 2=20secs, 3=30secs

[Ankzu]

I am not seeing any major issues with resto druids at the moment. In my raid I heal with a disc priest and a resto shaman, the disc priest always has more hps than the shaman and myself, but if you look at healing done (takes absorbs into account) the disc priest and I are always roughly the same, while the shaman is lagging way far behind. I'm loving the changes they made to mushrooms and am utilizing them with most fights.

[doozer]

I play exclusively as a healer. I have one of every healing class except shaman, but I play mostly disc priest and resto druid. When MoP started, after I quickly determined Monk healing style wasn't for me, I decided to make my pally healer my main. I probably never mastered pally healing (and this isn't the thread to learn pally heals), but not only did I find it less interesting than disc or druid, I never felt powerful. I did fine on the meters, but I always felt mana, good aoe, and raid cooldowns were a struggle for me.

All that's to say that I've never understood how pallies come out so consistently strong in every expansion. I certainly don't feel efficient as a pally. I'd rather be on my druid any day.

[Arcanist]

I am not seeing any major issues with resto druids at the moment. In my raid I heal with a disc priest and a resto shaman, the disc priest always has more hps than the shaman and myself, but if you look at healing done (takes absorbs into account) the disc priest and I are always roughly the same, while the shaman is lagging way far behind. I'm loving the changes they made to mushrooms and am utilizing them with most fights.

Now tell us how much dps the disc priest does while at the same time matching your healing and providing good utility.

[Dracodraco]

Rdruids are fine. Pallies and priests are slightly better, but Druids perform equal to or better than monks and shamans. It's easier to play bad and put out higher hps as a pally or priest because of how absorbs work, which may be why bad players might think they're far and away OP.

It's almost like some people in this thread think raids should only run 5 pallies. No one needs to explain why that's a stupid sentiment nowadays.

Mushrooms are awesome, but do require some thinking and skill to use effectively. When you do, they contribute millions of healing for very little mana cost. It has a use on almost every fight.

Just commenting here - check some of the many "high end" progress kills on hard bosses, like council, Tortos and Mag on the top guilds videos (Method, Blood legion, scrubbusters, wraith). Tell me how many discs/paladins you count. Usually, it'll actually be five <.<.

[Saharie]

The argument that resto druids are good healers when allowed to be seems invalid to me. Sure, if your group makeup has a RDruid competing with a Monk and Shaman healers then yea, the druid (if they play their class properly) will have a high output and probably top the chart because they're not battling aborbs.

However -- when raiding with disc priests and paladins our effectiveness is negated. My main 10 man runs with my RDruid a Disc Priest and a Holy Pally... I feel completely useless. Their absorbs are sniping my heals before they can even begin to roll and that's my main concern. I don't want to be a situationally efficient healer based on my raid makeup. I want to be valuable in whatever raid I walk into. I don't have to top the chart -- I just want what I contribute to my raid comp and level me with the other healers and provide me the proper tools to be HIGHLY competitive, I don't want to be 4-6k hps lower consistently.

I've beat really bad disc priests before -- that doesn't make me feel better about my class, it just makes me sad that they don't know how to play their (highly versatile) class properly. I stopped playing my priest in favor for my druid during WotLK, I've also played a Shaman healer. I really really enjoy my druid, I just wish we were more valuable than a once every 3 mins tranquility and a BR because our DKtank is busy tanking.

[Thalur]

However -- when raiding with disc priests and paladins our effectiveness is negated. My main 10 man runs with my RDruid a Disc Priest and a Holy Pally... I feel completely useless. Their absorbs are sniping my heals before they can even begin to roll and that's my main concern.

That's because you 3-heal encounters that are designed to be 2-healed. Try 2-healing bosses, and even beside a disc or pala, you will feel very powerful (both classes can't even begin to match our raw hps).
And for bosses where 2 healers is not enough (I call these 2.5 healer bosses), let your disc do dps and only help with healing when necessary. All bosses are much easier like this.

[Deleted]

I'm not a Pro r-druid, but have made some records in logs while ago. Currently progress only 1st boss down in ToT, stuck at 2nd. And I like my R-druid.
About mushrooms - it's all about habit to use this spell combo. I usually put mushrooms before fight starts and plank RJ for proc. While we are moving, I place them at new place. There is always some time when you can take a breath - use it for placing mushrooms. With average ilvl 500 or close to it, it will heal approx 400k and it will be smartheal not a overheal.
If there exist paladin in raid - restro druids can dispel all negative effects with symbiosis.
Druids also have a "shields" - like Cenario Ward - ofc CD and hps isnt comparable with palas and priests.
R-druids can inc movement speed - with roar - sometimes its very usefully.
R-druids can "heal without mana" - LB and Nourish costs are so low, same about RJ + SW, that they can be cast, when you are almost empty - depends on spirit on gear.
If palas or priests starts to run out of mana ... then we come on the stage.
R-druids have many good spells, which are instant - LB, RJ, SW, WG and RG, if incarnation used. Of course mushrooms. That allows r-druid cast heals during movement.
Many heals are smartheals - SW, Tranq, WG and mushrooms.

Those are positive things, which i found on R-druid. I think, if it's possible to master in your class, you always will have spot in raids.

[Blackflag421]

Any boss with damage modifiers (Horridon, Tortos for example) a disc priest will match or beat you in hps by dpsing with atonement.

The biggest issue (at least for 10m which I raid now) is that all those shields tend to make WG overheal more since it hits less targets for actual healing. More of an issue with lack of synergy between disc priest + rdruid than anything, as the times I healed with just hpally(s) it didn't seem nearly as bad unless they were burning thru mana to make sure everyone was topped off before my hots could tick twice.

[Deleted]

Did LFR on my HPala, outhealed everyone by a long way just by Holy Radiance & Holy Shock + Eternal Flame blanketing, will only get better with the tier 15 bonuses too. It's pretty ridiculous really, I've not touched my Resto spec since 5.0.

[Druover]

Resto druids seems fine to me after the 5.2 buffs (10 m speaking). I dont get the argument about shields vs hots. Yes, if you only care about meters, then shields are alot better. But if people aren't at full health, then your hot will still heal even if they have a shield on them. If people are at full health, who cares, except the meters? So when it matters, which is when people are getting hit and losing HP, our hots are effective. The one argument against this is that a shield can save a one shot, but we have a new CD as of 5.0 to help with that, and how often does that happen?

Lets look at it this way. If someone is at 10% health, isn't our 100k heal just as effective as a 100k shield? When the whole raid is at 75%, isn't our wild growth just as effective as shields? When the whole raid is at 95%, our WG isn't as effective as it will go to overheal. But we shouldn't be casting WG and the raid wont wipe if everyone is that high and no more damage is coming. The only time its not as effective is when part of our heal will go to overhealing, whereas a shield wont. But again, those scenarios are not when people are going to die, so who cares? Our job is to stablize damage in the raid, which we do really well.

You are never going to be in a group that wipes and the reason was because our heals aren't shields. Again, when the damage is coming, which is when people wipe, our heals are just as effective. If you aren't wiping, then who cares, unless you just care about the meter.

And yes, the top guilds might not be taking rdruids as much, but the vast majority of people dont care about the level of "evenness" as top guilds do.

[Arcanist]

I see people saying things like "If you aren't wiping, then who cares?", "Meters don't matter", "As long as the boss dies" and I don't think these people grasp the big picture. If the content is significantly easier with absorb classes (WHICH IT IS!), you'll soon find yourselves out of a raid spot. Who is going to willingly make raiding harder on themselves? There is already some grumbling from my guild about my wish to main my resto druid when I have both a priest and a shaman (awesome cooldowns) at my disposal.

[Saharie]

That's because you 3-heal encounters that are designed to be 2-healed. Try 2-healing bosses, and even beside a disc or pala, you will feel very powerful (both classes can't even begin to match our raw hps).
And for bosses where 2 healers is not enough (I call these 2.5 healer bosses), let your disc do dps and only help with healing when necessary. All bosses are much easier like this.

But what would the reasoning be for the disc/pally to go dps instead of the resto druid slipping into boomkin? The priest/pally are mitigating incoming damage, and if there needs to be after healing done the disc has enough cool downs and the pally can holy shock it clean. Druids can still use their Tranquility as boomkin too. I just feel like I'm being forced out of a healing spot in that composition.

[Thexx]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but... I heal 10's with a disc and a holy pally (or on two-heal fights, the priest goes shadow) and I don't feel overpowered by their absorbs at all. When our disc does pull ahead, it's usually because of her getting good use from atonement, (think Horridon/Tortos, where there's bonus damage) not OMG OP shields. I can only think of one mechanic on one fight so far this tier that made me feel like shields gave the other healers a real edge - Static Shock on Lei Shen during the transition phases, where you only have two/three people to split the damage - but no one died, and at the end of the fight I was top heals with the other two very close behind. Even before the 5.2, our raid's overall healing has always exhibited a decent parity.

I think resto is fine in 10's - if you're constantly getting outhealed by shields, maybe drop to two heals? I just don't buy that we can't compete with shielding classes. Our toolbox is different, but we can cope with damage just as well.

[Tricksterjim]

Druids are better off now than 5.1.

I raid 25 mans with a 10 man end of week clean up group. Our raid has 1 disc, 2 pallies, 1 monk and me (druid), & a shadow priest with Holy OS for 6 heal fights. All with about the same ilvl. Our 10M elite grp has a disc, pally and me. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses. If you are trying to rejuv someone with with 10%HP missing you are doing it wrong. I have hots on tanks, prehot before aoe (and there is a lot of aoe dmg in this tier) and pop CDs at right time. I overheal ALOT but if the raid is alive and the boss is dead, I don't care.

Our healing is fine. Our utility is lacking. Don't believe me? Try doing Horridon with 1 Monk and with 0 Monks. Their raid wide dispel is freaking AMAZING, especially in 25 man. Our monk was late last night so I had to Symbiosis a pally and spam dispells on high stack of poison, disease etc and end up oom.

Mushrooms are mean to be a niche spell good for stacking. You could ignore them all together and still be competative, but if you use them occasionally for burst heals, you are going to be that much better. My only issue is on fights like Tortos where I dont have many GCDs to cast 3 shrooms, but they are strong when cast near mellee/tank so I find the time while not letting ppl die.

What I would like to see:
1) make shroom an absorb not a heal. Imagine if we could blow them when people stack right before an explosion. It would make them so much more effective than after that it would offset the cons of the spell, like the need to recharge if moved etc.
2)Make our dispel a little less mana intensive (if a monk can dispell the whole raid in 1 GCD at least let us not be oom after 1min of spam dispelling) (not gonna happen due to pvp repercussions)
3) Reduce the CD on ironbark since it is our only damage reducing ability for teammates.

[Arcanist]

Druids are better off now than 5.1.

I raid 25 mans with a 10 man end of week clean up group. Our raid has 1 disc, 2 pallies, 1 monk and me (druid), & a shadow priest with Holy OS for 6 heal fights. All with about the same ilvl. Our 10M elite grp has a disc, pally and me. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses. If you are trying to rejuv someone with with 10%HP missing you are doing it wrong. I have hots on tanks, prehot before aoe (and there is a lot of aoe dmg in this tier) and pop CDs at right time. I overheal ALOT but if the raid is alive and the boss is dead, I don't care.

Our healing is fine. Our utility is lacking. Don't believe me? Try doing Horridon with 1 Monk and with 0 Monks. Their raid wide dispel is freaking AMAZING, especially in 25 man. Our monk was late last night so I had to Symbiosis a pally and spam dispells on high stack of poison, disease etc and end up oom.

Mushrooms are mean to be a niche spell good for stacking. You could ignore them all together and still be competative, but if you use them occasionally for burst heals, you are going to be that much better. My only issue is on fights like Tortos where I dont have many GCDs to cast 3 shrooms, but they are strong when cast near mellee/tank so I find the time while not letting ppl die.

What I would like to see:
1) make shroom an absorb not a heal. Imagine if we could blow them when people stack right before an explosion. It would make them so much more effective than after that it would offset the cons of the spell, like the need to recharge if moved etc.
2)Make our dispel a little less mana intensive (if a monk can dispell the whole raid in 1 GCD at least let us not be oom after 1min of spam dispelling) (not gonna happen due to pvp repercussions)
3) Reduce the CD on ironbark since it is our only damage reducing ability for teammates.

They can just drop you from you from your 10 man group and replace you with a disc priest and let him DPS. They're worth 1.5 (full healer, half a dps) whereas a resto druid isn't even worth 1 (holy paladins/disc priests being the gold standard). Hell, they can even grab a holy priest and let him sit in the dps chakra and dps. Divine Hymn>Tranquility anyway.

And what strengths? Our heals are slow as fuck, nourish and healing touch aren't worth casting, mushrooms are irritating as hell and damage is absorbed and healed after a rejuv tick or two.

Fuck playing what I like. I've done that and always end up disappointed. I want to be effective.

[zcrooked]

25 man druids are still kinda weak... but they are strong in 10 man imo

check some of my logs vs a priest + shaman...

2 man healing iron qon (disc priest)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...591#Deathruler

3 healin twin (disc shaman druid)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...764#Deathruler

3 healing magaera (disc shaman druid) - doin 10mil more healin than them here
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...533#Deathruler


This just shows that druids healing is strong.... If i was healin with say 2x disc priests, or 2x paladin, my healing would obviously be a lot lower meter wise... but the strength of my healin is still there

healing isnt always about meters... u should base it more on certain phases of the fight that require good healin.

bro go play with a disc priest and a holy paladin... when your a resto druid ... they snipe heals.

[Blackflag421]

I think resto is fine in 10's - if you're constantly getting outhealed by shields, maybe drop to two heals?

That is exactly what happens. Now out of a disc priest (into spriest), hpally (into ret), and rdruid (into feral/boomkin) which one do you think will be asked to respec? The druid who brings just as much utility in feral/boomkin as resto (aside from ironbark's 2min cd).