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  1. #241
    Deleted
    I think there shouldn't be a limit per say. But there should be a limit according to wealth. If you're poor as dirt and can't even take care of yourself, you won't be able to take care of a child, period.

    Maybe there should be a limit actually. I don't know, 3 per person? That sounds ok. Not 3 per couple, 3 per person in their lifetime. Don't know what's to be done in case someone makes twins or more at one birth though... 3 successful births per person? Meh, this is complicated, then people would start getting special fertility tretments since they give higher chance of more children...

    Ok, 3 successful children per person (this means a woman can have 3 children, but the man also 3, they can be shared, as in the 3 belong to both the woman and the man, or the woman can have one with another man and 2 with her husband and the husband have 1 with another woman, hope you understand the principle).
    In case of twins, triplets etc... ummm... I don't know, I honestly have no clue. They could be counted as 1 I guess.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    There should be. The earth has a finite amount of resources that can be harvested, and every time some couple decides they want 5 kids they hog resources from others. Ultimately, this causes resources prices such as food, gas, and housing to rise for everyone. Lastly, many do not plan children, they simply refuse to think about the consequences of their actions.

    Why should we all be forced to pay more for our standard of living because Jose Ramirez cannot put on a condom?

    Because I am in a rather vindictive mood this evening. My solution is that their should be a 3 child limit imposed globally, and if a person knowingly has another child, then abortion is forced. And the remains get processed for use in the agricultural industry as fertilizer. This would help crop efficiency, and turn others bad decisions into a net gain for a society.

    Check the birthrates in developed countries. You're actually shrinking. There is no need to impose a limit in Europe or the United States for example.

    (Less developed or more conservative countries are still going strong though.)

  3. #243
    Legendary! The One Percent's Avatar
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    Of course there should be. The question is, who is qualified to make the hard decisions and do they have what it takes to enforce the law.
    You're getting exactly what you deserve.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Let me take a stab at this. Less "simple maths" and more sociological and geopolitical change bringing more ethnicities into conflict and the right wing brigade spreading propaganda perhaps? I'm old enough that I remember people saying EXACTLY this (along with other things like 1 in 3 people will have AIDS, various apocalypse dates and the fact that we were both going to be living in a winter wonderland and a tropical climate at the same time due to global warming)twenty years ago and guess what, muslims are still not anywhere near those population figures and the UK is yet to adopt Shiara law for all it's citizens. But, tell you what, show me this "simple math" and I might discount all my education and experience and agree with you.
    Wouldn't really say it's propaganda.. Immigrants get child support retroactive(lol, most stupid thing ever) in Sweden when they come here..

  5. #245
    Of course there should be, but when you say something like that its like "OMG PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, YOU CANT SUPPRESS HUMAN RIGHTS" or "OMG KIDS ARE A BLESSING FROM THE GOD".

    Yeah, have 10 kids, watch all of them grow up jealous of every other kid because their parents werent complete whack jobs and wore condoms after 1-2 kids and can actually support them while you were dressing your kids in smelly ruined clothes and never gave them any materialistic fulfillment so when they grow up they have psychological issues.because they never had anything to call their own while you kept pressuring them into religion 24/7.

    I have a few families of those nearby, considering my country is the center of orthodox religion (Greece) and generally Christians tend to say shit like "OMG KIDS ARE A BLESSING FROM GOD".

    I dont know even 1 single family with more than 4 kids thats lived and is living properly especially how Greece is nowadays that their kids dont have/went through some major issue like rioting, turning anarchist, and stealing stuff, or drugs.

  6. #246
    The only "resource" that is limited at this time is money. The earth has enough natural resources to last for an extremely long time. If no one cared how much money it would cost to feed and shelter people and if the world really wanted to help everyone things would be fine. Infact they would probably be better than ever.

    Most people only care about how much something is going to cost them. It doesn't matter how good of an idea something is, if it cost too much money than its a no go.

    Greed runs this world, not "limited" natural resources. So to answer your question, No. There should not be an enforced limit on the amount of children people can have.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    I would never support a government who'd implement regulations like these! This feels like violation of the most basic human rights
    How is birthing a child, a fundamental human right? What exactly is a fundamental right? Is it just because you can HAVE a child that makes it ok? I can do a lot of things with my body that would be considered immoral(rape, aggressive action), so your justification for why child birth is a RIGHT somehow has to exist, otherwise there doesn't seem to be any reason why it's any different, because you aren't acting on yourself, you are acting on an entity that has no choice in the matter.

    "Forced" abortion is a completely separate issue, and could be dealt with in a number of ways, none of them having to be "tyrannical", you people seriously get hysterical anytime anyone mentions these types of things.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmoth12 View Post
    Solar is a very inefficient way of producing electricity, and would require vast land spaces to be covered which could potentially harm the environment. The wind does not always blow. Lastly, nuclear waste is dangerous and requires thousands of years to burn off it's radioactivity.
    Nuclear power is way more environmentally friendly than burning trees, gas or coal. As long as the radioactive waste from it is handled safely(shot into space, buried in secret bunkers deep in the ground) there is no problem with it. Or would you rather we cut down all the trees and burn them to make electricity?

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Yes, this, because having governments stick their noses in with licensing and regulations works out for the mundane things never mind our human right to bear children. Yes, let's have a bunch of politicians (POLITICIANS!!!) decide on the circumstances when I may be allowed to have children. Kids aren't a bloody TV so why the hell should I require a permit for having one. And , god forbid, I break regulations, what happens then? A surreptitious hankie laden with chloroform in a government representative's hand snaking it way to my illegal babies nose and mouth?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 04:59 PM ----------


    Are you deliberately being obtuse? I gave you the word to look up. Irrigation. Do yourself a favour and educate yourself. You know those oranges which grow in California?
    Where does the human RIGHT to have children come from?

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelime View Post
    Where does the human RIGHT to have children come from?
    Where does the government's RIGHT to take away people's babies come from?
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelime View Post
    How is birthing a child, a fundamental human right? What exactly is a fundamental right? Is it just because you can HAVE a child that makes it ok? I can do a lot of things with my body that would be considered immoral(rape, aggressive action), so your justification for why child birth is a RIGHT somehow has to exist, otherwise there doesn't seem to be any reason why it's any different, because you aren't acting on yourself, you are acting on an entity that has no choice in the matter.

    "Forced" abortion is a completely separate issue, and could be dealt with in a number of ways, none of them having to be "tyrannical", you people seriously get hysterical anytime anyone mentions these types of things.
    "You're not supposed to be in control of your own body just because you're a woman".

    Get out.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Of course there should be, but when you say something like that its like "OMG PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS, YOU CANT SUPPRESS HUMAN RIGHTS" or "OMG KIDS ARE A BLESSING FROM THE GOD".

    Yeah, have 10 kids, watch all of them grow up jealous of every other kid because their parents werent complete whack jobs and wore condoms after 1-2 kids and can actually support them while you were dressing your kids in smelly ruined clothes and never gave them any materialistic fulfillment so when they grow up they have psychological issues.because they never had anything to call their own while you kept pressuring them into religion 24/7.

    I have a few families of those nearby, considering my country is the center of orthodox religion (Greece) and generally Christians tend to say shit like "OMG KIDS ARE A BLESSING FROM GOD".

    I dont know even 1 single family with more than 4 kids thats lived and is living properly especially how Greece is nowadays that their kids dont have/went through some major issue like rioting, turning anarchist, and stealing stuff, or drugs.
    And you really think our Greek government is in ANY position to tell anyone what to do with how they ruined Greece? Both PASOK and Nea Demokratia should be chased out of power and imprisoned for what they did to our country.

    If you really, honestly believe such scum are in any situation to tell me what to do with my life, then malaka, you deserve to be screwed over in every way the state can.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Where does the government's RIGHT to take away people's babies come from?
    Anything that Government does would be based on the Social Contract, I never stated that i thought "forced" abortion was a good idea to begin with. There are far more benign ways to deal with that type of issue, without having to resort to abortion. If this type of system were to be implemented it would be through a democratic process in the U.S and many other nations, I don't think we are going to suddenly have a dictator that decides these issues.

    You also evaded the question, there is still no explanation of where the RIGHT to have those children comes from. As i stated before, i can harm other people with my self, but that doesn't give me the RIGHT to do it. Just because you can have the children, doesn't mean you have the right to do it, you are playing Dice with that child's future.

  14. #254
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    Yes, you should have as many children as you can sustain... What's that u have too low income and can barely sustain yourself? Tough luck... work harder, better, get a better job make more money and then think about having kids...

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelime View Post
    Where does the human RIGHT to have children come from?
    Oh I don't know, let them me think about that one. I got it, biology. The fact that it's the natural consequence of one of the most natural human acts. You are in fact, as a human being , born with inalienable rights of which having a child is one of. In fact, since you believe otherwise, you tell me how we don't have that right, other than you don't think we have. We have as much as a right to bearing children as we do breathing, and until you show me the law (feel free to use the laws of your own country) I'm going to say anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually know what rights are (other than those things being impugned when a forum mod bans you for some comment)

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLampard View Post
    I don't understand how this can be put to debate. It's a fact.

    Have a kid. It gets paid for. The woman is a stay at home mum. Granted, many may live on a council estate in the shitty parts of London, but that child is being paid for by taxpayers. If said Woman then gives birth to another 3 or 4 kids (having grown up in South London, I have seen it thousands of times) they are moved out and given a bigger flat/house, and one usually more luxurious. Guess who pays for it? You and I.

    I'm not denying welfare helps a majority of people, but a good portion of those on financial help abuse it, and don't give a flying toss and while there is nothing done about it, it will be encouraged by the abusers and passed on to their children.

    I have no idea what it's like in America, and quite frankly I don't care. I live in England, and I'm just expressing my own opinion on the news I hear all day. Oh wait, I guess every news station in the UK is a poor source now as well?
    There's a reason why honest people who are on welfare aren't on the news; because they're not news worthy. Instead it's the extreme examples, moochers in this case, that get's all the media attention. You're committing a grave mistake if you think that is an accurate representation, unless they are blatantly saying something like "90% of people on welfare are moochers", in which case you'd wonder why the government haven't cracked down on those people.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    "You're not supposed to be in control of your own body just because you're a woman".

    Get out.
    When i saw your posts earlier, i kind of thought this would be your response, but it's just a strawman.

    I actually 100% agree that woman are able to have abortions, but i don't see it as a woman's right issue, i just don't see a fetus as being a human yet, so it's termination doesn't seem to be wrong.

    The reason that there is no RIGHT to children is that you are enacting a desinty upon an entity that has no choice in the matter, essentially you are playing Dice with that child's future, where does your right come from to gamble somebody elses fate? This has nothing to do with your "rights as a woman", just being able to have a child gives you no right to do so, just as having the ability to murder, gives me no right to do so.

  18. #258
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Wouldn't really say it's propaganda.. Immigrants get child support retroactive(lol, most stupid thing ever) in Sweden when they come here..
    What does retroactive child support have to do with Islamic populations forcing out indigenous populations within twenty years due to higher birth rates as was claimed?

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Oh I don't know, let them me think about that one. I got it, biology. The fact that it's the natural consequence of one of the most natural human acts. You are in fact, as a human being , born with inalienable rights of which having a child is one of. In fact, since you believe otherwise, you tell me how we don't have that right, other than you don't think we have. We have as much as a right to bearing children as we do breathing, and until you show me the law (feel free to use the laws of your own country) I'm going to say anyone who says otherwise doesn't actually know what rights are (other than those things being impugned when a forum mod bans you for some comment)
    My biology gives me the ability to do many things we consider immoral. Sex LEADS to sex, it does NOT lead to procreation, we have vast numbers of ways to have sex without having a child now, to the point it can nearly be a guarantee, you are conflating the two things, sex and procreation are two different things.

    This still doesn't explain why having a child is a right, if it's based purely on biology, i should have the right to murder anyone i see fit, simply because i can do so. Saying it's based on biology is not an explanation.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrelime View Post
    When i saw your posts earlier, i kind of thought this would be your response, but it's just a strawman.

    I actually 100% agree that woman are able to have abortions, but i don't see it as a woman's right issue, i just don't see a fetus as being a human yet, so it's termination doesn't seem to be wrong.

    The reason that there is no RIGHT to children is that you are enacting a desinty upon an entity that has no choice in the matter, essentially you are playing Dice with that child's future, where does your right come from to gamble somebody elses fate? This has nothing to do with your "rights as a woman", just being able to have a child gives you no right to do so, just as having the ability to murder, gives me no right to do so.
    You do know how an abortion is done, right? To say it's not to do with woman's right is just stupid. It's a medical procedure that has the potential to be fatal if unlucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    What does retroactive child support have to do with Islamic populations forcing out indigenous populations within twenty years due to higher birth rates as was claimed?
    They come here with large amounts of kids and get money for it, not gonna happen within 20 years but with the current pace in Sweden it's gonna happen around 2050-2060.

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