Frustrating LFR - How do we fix this mentality?

[Firebert]

Which means being ok with de facto griefing. I categorically deny that this is acceptable.

I missed that memo: when did being AFK equate to being a griefer?

If I go and turn the oven off because I had food on, does that mean I should be suspended?

[clevin]

Which means being ok with de facto griefing. I categorically deny that this is acceptable.

ooh a CATEGORICAL denial. I'm so impress... oh wait, no I'm not. It's your opinion. If it bothers you that much don't run LFR.

Any restriction on how loot drops will introduce its own issues. AS it is, what other people do doesn't affect your drop chances at all, so... why do you care if some AFKer or baddie gets an upgrade? They're not taking it from you.

[Sarevokcz]

ooh a CATEGORICAL denial. I'm so impress... oh wait, no I'm not. It's your opinion. If it bothers you that much don't run LFR.

Any restriction on how loot drops will introduce its own issues. AS it is, what other people do doesn't affect your drop chances at all, so... why do you care if some AFKer or baddie gets an upgrade? They're not taking it from you.

because you are wasting their time. If it bothers you so much that people prefer to kick afkers, dont do LFR and then get pissy when you get kicked for inactivity.

[Deleted]

All you need on that fight is a Tank, they will do 4-700K dps and also top healing meters, Dont waste time on CC, or an OT just go in one tank and all heals focus them, and aoe the boss dead. Pally tanks are especially epic on that fight.

You mean all that matters on that fight is 1 priest using mass dispell on cd? Cause that would be correct. Your strat without dispells will usually end up in tank getting wrecked 1 minute in.

[clevin]

because you are wasting their time. If it bothers you so much that people prefer to kick afkers, dont do LFR and then get pissy when you get kicked for inactivity.

Um... i don't AFK. I'm in the top 3-5 for DPS usually. It's not about me. And more of you should remember that it's not just about you and that most of you aren't God's gift to WoW.


Most of you need to grow the fuck up and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and isn't going to cater to what you like. If an activity annoys you, don't do it... but if you continue to do the thing that pisses you off, that's on you. Not the world.

[Sarevokcz]

Um... i don't AFK. I'm in the top 3-5 for DPS usually. It's not about me. And more of you should remember that it's not just about you and that most of you aren't God's gift to WoW.


Most of you need to grow the fuck up and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and isn't going to cater to what you like. If an activity annoys you, don't do it... but if you continue to do the thing that pisses you off, that's on you. Not the world.

Neither does it revolve around you. Yo know what means when you got kicked? that most people in LFR didnt want you to waste their time. Tough luck, stop slacking next time.

[clevin]

Neither does it revolve around you. Yo know what means when you got kicked? that most people in LFR didnt want you to waste their time. Tough luck, stop slacking next time.

I'll say this slowly since you're obviously reading challenged....

I

Did not

Get

Kicked.

Never have been.

I don't AFK.

As I said IN THE POST YOU QUOTED, I'm usually in the top few in DPS (I LFR on my hunter).

If you're too dense to understand what I'm saying please go take remedial reading... I've said a couple of times now that this isn't about me. Now go do your English homework... it's obvious you've been skipping that.

[stellvia]

So if people may forget what they read in the Dungeon Journal, they just shouldn't bother reading it in the first place, right? Knowing absolutely nothing is better...

And actually, Blizzard COULD add an "effort" system to the game without too much trouble. Each raid boss is designed for a certain ilvl and avg DPS. So you could set the "effort" bar at say, 50% of expected to be generous. I still would say it's not worth it though, since people would still find a way to game the system. By just "dying" partway through the fight, or doing whatever bare minimum was required.

As far as AFKs -- I've seen numerous people kicked for being AFK. Generally speaking, it's because they ninja AFK'd with no warning and were gone for 5+ minutes. Even in LFR where people are trigger-happy as heck to kick people, if you say "Hey guys, I gotta go AFK 3mins, my roommate needs help with something quick." They're likely to give you that. At least unless you do that right at the next boss -- they tend to get more antsy if the entire raid is just sitting there waiting. Better to do that kinda stuff just after a boss kill when there is trash to kill to the next boss.

[Sarevokcz]

I'll say this slowly since you're obviously reading challenged....

I

Did not

Get

Kicked.

Never have been.

I don't AFK.

If you're too stupid to understand what I'm saying please go take remedial reading... I've said a couple of times now that this isn't about me. Now go do your English homework... it's obvious you've been skipping that.

its general "you"

too hard for you to understand? guess so. but what can I expect from an angry kid on these boards...

[clevin]

So if people may forget what they read in the Dungeon Journal, they just shouldn't bother reading it in the first place, right? Knowing absolutely nothing is better...

And actually, Blizzard COULD add an "effort" system to the game without too much trouble. Each raid boss is designed for a certain ilvl and avg DPS. So you could set the "effort" bar at say, 50% of expected to be generous. I still would say it's not worth it though, since people would still find a way to game the system. By just "dying" partway through the fight, or doing whatever bare minimum was required.

As far as AFKs -- I've seen numerous people kicked for being AFK. Generally speaking, it's because they ninja AFK'd with no warning and were gone for 5+ minutes. Even in LFR where people are trigger-happy as heck to kick people, if you say "Hey guys, I gotta go AFK 3mins, my roommate needs help with something quick." They're likely to give you that. At least unless you do that right at the next boss -- they tend to get more antsy if the entire raid is just sitting there waiting. Better to do that kinda stuff just after a boss kill when there is trash to kill to the next boss.

They could do an effort system but, really, why? In DS, you could lose loot to someone who slacked but with the current loot system that can't happen. Plus, any system is able to be gamed, abused, etc. It will likely have unforeseen consequences and given that no one is denied tangible things like loot, eh. Plus, as people mentioned above, it's not just raw effort that counts on a lot of fights. For example, Horridon... I can DPS the boss all the time and kick ass on the meters. Effortwise I'd look great. But Im doing it wrong since I should be on the adds. Sure, you could tune the criteria for each fight but that's way more effort and more prone to bugs and again, why? I'm not hurt lootwise here and unless someone's lack of effort is really the difference between a kill and a wipe then it means at most a slightly longer fight (if DPS) or perhaps a death or two that could have been avoided (if substandard heals). Eh

AFKs? I think it's fine to ask a couple of times if they're there and if they don't respond and hadn't said anything about a quick AFK then boot them. No issue with booting AFK people.

[HardCoder]

While an "effort reward" might sound like a good idea, it's almost certainly a terrible idea that could be gamed, could be buggy, could create drama, et cetera.

The only thing that I think could make some kind of sense and help encourage people to participate enthusiastically is if there was a fairly easy to meet kill timer for a bonus reward, set based on the average ilevel of the group, displayed once the boss is engaged.

I don't think individual rewards can ever work, because it's too hard to figure out what someone should get them for. Interrupts? Heals? Damage avoided? Et cetera. If you reward DPS then you get people padding meters instead of doing other things, which people already do to the group's detriment.

Achievements like "interrupted a boss ability 5 times in one encounter" or something, maybe.

[Akraen]

Imagine if you had a higher chance to win an item based off your performance as a team. Perfect fight execution could result in a 75% to roll for loot instead of gold, or something.

Could have a series of mechanic checks (or like, less than 3 people die to eye sore). Downside is people could turn viciously negative. Upside is there would be clear incentive to learn to play and prepare even at an LFR level.

[stellvia]

Imagine if you had a higher chance to win an item based off your performance as a team. Perfect fight execution could result in a 75% to roll for loot instead of gold, or something.

Could have a series of mechanic checks (or like, less than 3 people die to eye sore). Downside is people could turn viciously negative. Upside is there would be clear incentive to learn to play and prepare even at an LFR level.

I like this idea best. Lead with a carrot, rather than prod with a stick. Incentivize learning the encounters. Although I could forsee issues with kicking bc ppl feel someone is going to cost the raid a "Gold Rating" or something. Might be better to somehow tie them to personal performance, than the entire raid. Although that would have to be on a per-boss per-class-role basis, so that might get messy. IE: Bonuses for X number of dispels of important debuffs, interrupts, under a certain threshhold of dmg taken, etc.

Would add to their development budget a decent amount though. Coming up with those metrics would take quite awhile.

[Rucati]

LFR seems to get better over time.

However, I'm one of the people that just wants to get it done and get out of there ASAP. There's nothing fun about doing a raid with 24 other people you'll never see again. Raiding is fun because of the social aspect. LFR is just a chore that needs to be done for a chance at gear to help progress your main raid. I wouldn't do LFR if the gear was a lower ilvl, and I wouldn't do LFR if I were in a guild that was already doing ToT heroics, because there wouldn't be much need. There's simply nothing fun about it, just boring and repetitive, so the faster the better.

I usually queue as a healer but focus more on DPS just to get the bosses dead faster. Most of the time I beat some of the DPS while I'm healing, just because of how terrible they usually are.

[clevin]

LFR seems to get better over time.

However, I'm one of the people that just wants to get it done and get out of there ASAP.

well who doesn't? I mean, no one wants to wipe (griefers aside).

There's nothing fun about doing a raid with 24 other people you'll never see again. Raiding is fun because of the social aspect. LFR is just a chore that needs to be done...

You don't NEED to do it. You choose to. Own the choice. If it's really bringing you down, wait a few more weeks (I agree with you that it gets better over time).

[HardCoder]

well who doesn't? I mean, no one wants to wipe (griefers aside).


You don't NEED to do it. You choose to. Own the choice. If it's really bringing you down, wait a few more weeks (I agree with you that it gets better over time).

It's actually pretty interesting to run LFR ToT when people are confused about what to do.

That confusion includes normal mode raiders who know "the way to do it" without knowing it's not the LFR way to do it.

ToT LFR has been fun for me so far. Usually takes a couple of attempts per non-Jinrokh boss, and World of Trashcraft is annoying, but whatever.

[Deleted]

To the original question, I'll just represent my answer as a metaphor from a favorite web comic and I strongly suggest people change their behavior.

In short: Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time.

Translates into: Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know how to do this LFR Boss' is so much more boring than telling someone about the LFR Boss for the first time.


(source)

[Otimus]

Imagine if you had a higher chance to win an item based off your performance as a team. Perfect fight execution could result in a 75% to roll for loot instead of gold, or something.

Could have a series of mechanic checks (or like, less than 3 people die to eye sore). Downside is people could turn viciously negative. Upside is there would be clear incentive to learn to play and prepare even at an LFR level.

I'd like this, but the negativity it'd cause wouldn't be worth it at all. The shaming and blaming would be epic. It'd be a lot more realistic to make it let you win a few Mogu Runes of Fate once per week if said thing is performed, so people can't be locked out of earning it in a bad run, and the reward won't be so important that people won't go nuts over not getting it.

[Gilian]

In GW2 you get rewarded by how much effort you put into Events. I don't understand why this would be a problem in WoW.

LFR probably isn't good for the game's long term health. It creates a layer of shit at max level that's likely to turn people away from raiding. Once a player has seen the raid/gotten the loot/dealt with raging jackasses in LFR, they're less likely to go for actual raiding. Especially if they're new and don't understand that the LFR experience isn't really comparable to the experience of doing a raid on normal/heroic. This isn't good for the game, because LFR isn't engaging enough to keep people playing long term. So while LFR provides engaging short term content, I doubt it does much to turn people in to long term subscribers, and actually probably makes people less likely to get in to raiding.

Also, LFR doesn't exist in a vacuum. Tier fourteen was time-wise extremely short, which impacted the normal/heroic content, and I think this was mostly because LFR content doesn't stay fresh anywhere near as long as normal/hard modes.

As far as fixing LFR, that's really never going to happen. LFR wouldn't work if it didn't involve groups of strangers and super easy content, and there are no penalties to prevent people from acting poorly in that situation. People behave at the level they need to.

I know. Plenty of threads here for the last couple of years about how awefull the LFD/LFR experience is. They won't change it obviously.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 09:38 AM ----------

How about this? Accept that LFR is always going to be a mix of good players who are doing it for VP or the odd chance at an upgrade outside of their normal raid, good players who can't do a regular raid schedule, average players who aren't going to light up the meters but are doing fine for what LFR is, new people who are learning to do their role in a raid setting and poor players/AFKers, etc.

Just deal with that. Accept that it's not going to be as fast or as clean as most good raid guilds and that there will likely be wipes or silly things, especially as people see the fights for the first few times. Sure, people SHOULD watch videos, but they don't. Again, accept that.

Or, if all of that really bothers you STAY THE HELL OUT OF LFR.

I'm not excusing the AFKers and really bad people but frankly the people who annoy me are the whining little epeen strokers who, after a wipe, rant about how easy it is and how everyone else sucks. Take some personal responsibility - if it hurts you, stop doing it.

I can say and do whatever I want in LFR. You should accept that. If you don't like it then you should STAY THE HELL OUT OF LFR.

[blackpink]

All you need on that fight is a Tank, they will do 4-700K dps and also top healing meters, Dont waste time on CC, or an OT just go in one tank and all heals focus them, and aoe the boss dead. Pally tanks are especially epic on that fight.

This could be translated to: all you need is non-retarded people. Sadly, that rarely happens in lfr. Anyways, as a dps you can only do so much in lfr really.