Why always the Horde?

[Zaelsino]

It's easier to make villains out of orcs and zombies than white knights and dwarves.

[Deleted]

soo much this, i repeat myself i don't honestly care if blizzard decide to focus 2 xpack on the alliance, on the contrary this will please me but no if the horde need to be put in distress to make the heros of the alliance shine. Blizzard can write the plots inside the alliance and let them have their own problems not something like illidan or arthas that have become more a threat to all living thing in the world, something more along the line of sylvanas and garrosh.

Agreed here.

It really seems to me that Blizz repeatedly makes the Horde fracture and corrupt over and over to make the alliance look good.

Why does the last raid of MOP have to be Orgrimmar much like Alliance raided Undercity before it to take out Putress? Why not Stormwind? (now that would be interesting)

It's easier to make villains out of orcs and zombies than white knights and dwarves.

True but with varian and Garrosh carbon copies of each other in Wrath they could have gone either way with the whole "bad faction leader" angle.

[Deleted]

How is that "its year 2001 and WC3 hasnt come out yet" mindset working out for you?
"always the villains" come on now? People still think like this? Lets not do this ok? :<




Way to miss the point. OP doesnt want horde to be used as like that. Some "provoking war mongering faction where evil guys spawn".

I guess the whole idea of this constant "well alliance spawned few baddies now its time for horde to spawn em. Internal conflicts always are fun in story right guys?!" is getting bit old.

I'm not only talking about WC3, it's the same for WoW. The Horde attacks Ashenvale, Southshore, Gilneas. In response to that the Alliance attacks one small outpost in the Barrens and even punishes the people who go in there to loot the place and then the Horde continues with Theramore. The Alliance always reacts to aggressions from the Horde.

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 03:19 PM ----------

It's easier to make villains out of orcs and zombies than white knights and dwarves.

That is largely due to the fact that orcs and zombies do more evil things than white knights and dwarves.

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 03:24 PM ----------

Lets see.

Your population consists of

Baby eating Orcs
Traveller killing trolls
Magic addicted blood elves
The undead

need I go on?

Add to that greedy goblins.

[bufferunderrun]

That is largely due to Blizzard writing plots about orcs and zombies do more evil things than white knights and dwarves.[COLOR="red"]

fixed it for ya, blizzard started cata with varian being only a bit less crazy than garrosh, then alliance players QQ and they have come back with garrosh going dumb crazy and varian becoming High King.

I think that after mop the horde will be put again in distress with the whole forsaken unsolved problem.

[Florena]

As I recall, there was no indication that experiments on captured civilians helped cure the plague. Didn't that come from horde players taking zombie brains or something like that to their faction leaders, which were used to develop it rather than experiments on living?

[Mawnix]

fixed it for ya, blizzard started cata with varian being only a bit less crazy than garrosh, then alliance players QQ and they have come back with garrosh going dumb crazy and varian becoming High King.

I think that after mop the horde will be put again in distress with the whole forsaken unsolved problem.

As I said, the Horde is disorganized but they're bound together by feeling outcasted. That itself is more interesting character development than that of a completely sane person, as most of the Alliance are easily bound together and "normal".

But that doesn't mean the development is imbalanced. Blizzard is doing the best they can with the characters of the Alliance to make them compelling for the players who exist on that side.

[Sevyvia]

Rant

I'm a bit sick of seeing my faction always used to build villains, from cataclysm to mop the horde has been systematically dismantled till the point that is nearly destroyed, thrall left, caime got killed, voljin nearly killed, the trolls/taurens and belf wanna leave and the forsaken are acting like the scourge, your capital will be used for the raid and Garrosh has become a psyco and will most likely be killed in 5.4.
Can blizzard gtfo and put some burdens on the alliance? Some internal conflict? A leader going crazy? Something that need the help off the Horde and show that we are not a bunch of crazy monsters?


/rant

Presumably you haven't been around for the 6 million times Blizzard has taken away any noticeable character from Alliance to go neutral because, well, SOMEONE has to and TEH HOERD R TEH HARDCOERZ THEMZ DUN DO PEAZ. This is -far- from a Horde only problem, if anything, Horde has gotten FAR more positive attention since Cata launch than Alliance.

[babo7000]

As I recall, there was no indication that experiments on captured civilians helped cure the plague. Didn't that come from horde players taking zombie brains or something like that to their faction leaders, which were used to develop it rather than experiments on living?

Well, if anything those 'experiments' (i.e sadistic torture), are only called so to ease the PR with the rest of the Horde. What sounds better for Sylvy to tell Thrall, that there turning people to goo to find a new plague, or there turning people to goo to find a cure for the Scourge Plague.

As for the Horde having more villians, its very simple, look at which race is the backbone of the Horde. The Orcs.

Orcish culture is all based on strength, 'honour', and glory fighting your enemies to the death. A society like that is one that is very easily going to become corrupt or dangerous. I said before, if the Orcs dont change their culture, another Garrosh/Gul'Dan is going to pop out in no time.

[Koreche]

-All of the Alliance left in Lordaeron are liquidized.
-Our leader in Arathi is turned Forsaken.
-Every single Horde vs Alliance battle in Cataclysm outside of the absolutely pointless Swamp of Sorrows storyline (And even then Stonard still stands), the Alliance loses.
-Gilneas is basically totally destroyed.
-Wildhammer Dwarves are slaughtered up and down Twilight Highlands.
-One of our most prominent Humans in WoW, Bolvar Fordragon, is killed by the incompetence of Thrall/Sylvanas by allowing a coup to occur, and becomes nonexistent.
-Theramore is destroyed.
-Jaina is going progressively off the deep end.
-Ashenvale swung heavily toward the Horde. Darkshore is essentially destroyed.
-For all of Vanilla and BC, our leadership in Stormwind was manipulated by Onyxia.
-Our Dwarven leader is petrified and the Dwarves undergo an, admittedly short, civil war within Ironforge. There is now a power struggle between the three representatives that has not ended.
-The Draenei just don't appear anywhere significant
-Arguably the third most powerful Night Elf who was formerly of the Alliance went batshit insane and joined Twilight's Hammer.
-The Prince of Stormwind is crushed and nearly killed by the Horde Warchief
-The Gnomes still can't reconquer Gnomeregan.
-We spent time and resources rebuilding Westfall only for the daughter of the former Defias kingpin to destroy most of it again.
-Tyrande became an absolute twit with apparently no combat experience.

But, no, you're right. Alliance have no burdens. I find it utterly, absolutely and completely, hilarious that somebody is trying to argue that the Horde have had the short end of the stick storyline-wise. As an Alliance player, allow me to respond:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Your response makes you look stupid.

[Florena]

Well, if anything those 'experiments' (i.e sadistic torture), are only called so to ease the PR with the rest of the Horde. What sounds better for Sylvy to tell Thrall, that there turning people to goo to find a new plague, or there turning people to goo to find a cure for the Scourge Plague.

As for the Horde having more villians, its very simple, look at which race is the backbone of the Horde. The Orcs.

Orcish culture is all based on strength, 'honour', and glory fighting your enemies to the death. A society like that is one that is very easily going to become corrupt or dangerous. I said before, if the Orcs dont change their culture, another Garrosh/Gul'Dan is going to pop out in no time.

Eh not really. In wc 1 and 2 orcs were villains, but in WoW itself, they really weren't going into villain territory until Cataclysm. The Forsaken I would argue are far worse. The horde has failed to keep them in check, they experiment on civilian captives, plagued a peaceful town until even THEY couldn't inhabit it, raise the dead to bolster their numbers, etc. But sadly it all gets swept under the rug and there's no indication that they or Sylvannas will ever face any comeuppance.

Once Garrosh is gone, it's likely the Forsaken will be the only real 'villainous' race left in the Horde.

[Spichora]

Rant

I'm a bit sick of seeing my faction always used to build villains, from cataclysm to mop the horde has been systematically dismantled till the point that is nearly destroyed, thrall left, caime got killed, voljin nearly killed, the trolls/taurens and belf wanna leave and the forsaken are acting like the scourge, your capital will be used for the raid and Garrosh has become a psyco and will most likely be killed in 5.4.
Can blizzard gtfo and put some burdens on the alliance? Some internal conflict? A leader going crazy? Something that need the help off the Horde and show that we are not a bunch of crazy monsters?


/rant

I dont understand why you complain about Horde, everything you marked out refers to Garroshs leadership! and it will end when he is overthrown! BTW Thrall became better character, Leader of Earthen ring, not war-afraid-child. And forsakens have always been like Scourge, they were part of the scourge. I understand that they didnt agree with scourge plans about this world but still they use their technique/methods to achieve their goals! Have you forgot what did they do in Northrend? Or Wrathgate ? Forsakens don't truly belong to Horde, Sylvanas has her own goals and doesn't share most of Hordes ideas. Blood elf, Troll and Tauren issue will be fixed when garrosh is Dead/overthrown.

And Do you really think that Alliance haven't faced any of the difficulties ? Come on! first of all Alliance didn't have Leader until WOLK. Council of Three Hammers is just a joke unification. No one knows when war will break between them. In cata Stormwind was destroyed by Deathwing when Orgrimmar was rebuilt anew. No one complained! WTF is happening to Night elves I dont know, When they should be Leader race of Alliance (because they are strongest and most experienced), they appear puppets to human race! Or at least give them independence! Its Horde's Time to face challenges!

[Spichora]

-All of the Alliance left in Lordaeron are liquidized.
-Our leader in Arathi is turned Forsaken.
-Every single Horde vs Alliance battle in Cataclysm outside of the absolutely pointless Swamp of Sorrows storyline (And even then Stonard still stands), the Alliance loses.
-Gilneas is basically totally destroyed.
-Wildhammer Dwarves are slaughtered up and down Twilight Highlands.
-One of our most prominent Humans in WoW, Bolvar Fordragon, is killed by the incompetence of Thrall/Sylvanas by allowing a coup to occur, and becomes nonexistent.
-Theramore is destroyed.
-Jaina is going progressively off the deep end.
-Ashenvale swung heavily toward the Horde. Darkshore is essentially destroyed.
-For all of Vanilla and BC, our leadership in Stormwind was manipulated by Onyxia.
-Our Dwarven leader is petrified and the Dwarves undergo an, admittedly short, civil war within Ironforge. There is now a power struggle between the three representatives that has not ended.
-The Draenei just don't appear anywhere significant
-Arguably the third most powerful Night Elf who was formerly of the Alliance went batshit insane and joined Twilight's Hammer.
-The Prince of Stormwind is crushed and nearly killed by the Horde Warchief
-The Gnomes still can't reconquer Gnomeregan.
-We spent time and resources rebuilding Westfall only for the daughter of the former Defias kingpin to destroy most of it again.
-Tyrande became an absolute twit with apparently no combat experience.

But, no, you're right. Alliance have no burdens. I find it utterly, absolutely and completely, hilarious that somebody is trying to argue that the Horde have had the short end of the stick storyline-wise. As an Alliance player, allow me to respond:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

So true, So much true and he said Alliance doesn't have Burdens.

[Sansnom]

Rant
Can blizzard gtfo and put some burdens on the alliance? Some internal conflict? A leader going crazy? Something that need the help off the Horde and show that we are not a bunch of crazy monsters?
/rant

Hm. Arthas was a human paladin. Wasn't he the bad dude in WoTLK?

And what race was that bad dude during Outland? Illidan? Was he not a NE?

[Crashdummy]

Rant

I'm a bit sick of seeing my faction always used to build villains, from cataclysm to mop the horde has been systematically dismantled till the point that is nearly destroyed, thrall left, caime got killed, voljin nearly killed, the trolls/taurens and belf wanna leave and the forsaken are acting like the scourge, your capital will be used for the raid and Garrosh has become a psyco and will most likely be killed in 5.4.
Can blizzard gtfo and put some burdens on the alliance? Some internal conflict? A leader going crazy? Something that need the help off the Horde and show that we are not a bunch of crazy monsters?


/rant

Dont worry my friend, Thrall is coming back to lead the horde, and we will recover our honor, pride and strenght after this stupid warmongering bloothister grunt almost destroyed it.

[theredviola]

Yeah, I know. I hate how the great Horde Hero Arthas was turned into a villain. Even worse, that traitorous half-elf half-demon Illidan.

Disgusting, I'm sick of it.

[Zonas]

Well, look at the factions in WoW. Horde seem to have gotten the short end of the stick in terms of big changes.

Through the four expansions the Alliance have really gained more than they ever lost. They got the Dreanei, a retconned to hell race and the added leader of Velen, who is "Supposedly" one of the strongest dudes ever. Varian has come back out of nowhere, having literature try and retconn him into some sort of bad ass. (I don't care what anyone says, Varian did NOT kill Onyxia) Malfurion has come back, another one of the "supposedly" strongest dudes ever. Really, all they've lost is their dwarven leader, and it's not like he's done much of jack as of late anyway. And I guess they've lost a lot of Jaina's sanity too...

The horde have lost so much more. The Blood Elves were given hardly anything as Kael'Thas was turned into a villain and the regent lord (name escapes me) has done fuck all for most of the game, even in the patch that had the most to do with his people. Carine has died and has been replaced by a character that had almost zero light put on him until cata. Sylvanas has been turned into a hateful bitch who is soon to go the way of Garrosh. And Thrall's left the horde, leaving Garrosh in charge who is quite literally one of the most poorly written characters in the entire franchise.

At least the Alliance villains, Arthas and Illidan, have had interesting story placed into them to make them likeable characters even in their evil ways.

[bufferunderrun]

Hm. Arthas was a human paladin. Wasn't he the bad dude in WoTLK?

And what race was that bad dude during Outland? Illidan? Was he not a NE?

You mean like: taking their most important prince and let him kill his father, his people and his friends/order, just so he can become one of the greatest tools the Burning Legion has while he commands an army of Scourge?

After Illidan and Arthas, it's about time the Horde provides a great villain.

How many year passed since they where part of the alliance till fought and killed them? What role they have inside the Alliance at the time we fought them? Any alliance player has ever done a single quest for them? Have we fought them in stormwind or darnassus?
You are trying to compare apples and oranges illidan and arthas where turned evil and left the alliance long before we fought them , today we are gonna fight the current warchief of the horde (and probably in a not distant future the leader of the forsaken) we are gonna fight inside your main capital city, we have been involved since cataclysm, no even before, with those guys.

[Spichora]

Yeah, I know. I hate how the great Alliance Hero Arthas was turned into a villain. Even worse, that traitorous half-elf half-demon Illidan.

Disgusting, I'm sick of it.

Fixed.

At least the Alliance villains, Arthas and Illidan, have had interesting story placed into them to make them likeable characters even in their evil ways.

Benedictus was Villain too and quite loved character for Alliance players

[Crym]

The Alliance has had plenty of problems (and still does). Most races distance themselves from the splinter factions that get a little too hell-bent on destruction (Dark Iron, Grimtotem, Gurubashi, etc...) However, those groups are largely individual tribes, and when they go crazy they just lose their connections with the other tribes.

The orcs used to be individual tribes that only came together once a year. The demons organized them all under a leader they knew they could control. Since then the orcs have really only had one leader. It's not like Garrosh is the leader of the Hellscreams, but the Frostwolves can just stay under Thrall and do their own thing. Hence, the need to kill their leader and get a more respectable orc in there! :P

[Felarion]

Well tbh i would love return od dark ruthless horde from warcraft 2. So little game offer to be evil sadly