Raiding guilds.

[Deleted]

Logistics, and personally, I like that things are tighter in that 1 person's mistakes stand out more in a 10 man raid.

This was the case pre MoP, but in MoP enrage timers are so tight that if 1-2 dps dies in 25m (on progression content) you often have to call a wipe just like in 10.

A mistake in 10 is just as damaging as in 25 in the current state of raiding...the only situation where I'd agree with you if you only have 1 CR in 10 and that person happens to die, but I'd imagen that that situation doesn't happen often unless your guild doesn't know how to make a decent setup.

[Deleted]

This was the case pre MoP, but in MoP enrage timers are so tight that if 1-2 dps dies in 25m (on progression content) you often have to call a wipe just like in 10.

A mistake in 10 is just as damaging as in 25 in the current state of raiding...the only situation where I'd agree with you if you only have 1 CR in 10 and that person happens to die, but I'd imagen that that situation doesn't happen often unless your guild doesn't know how to make a decent setup.

I will have to take your word for it. I'm currently considering a transfer to a different server as the state of raiding is so poor on mine - no 25 man raid team even exists here.

[Viggers]

What? You need to spend a week gearing up to get a char up to the standard a guild raiding normal ToT should require, and if it isn't during progression you can easily join a more hardcore guild without any particularly harsh (gear)requirements, as long as you look like a promising player.

not even close. we will accept trials into our guild with any gear, even below level 90, but we dont take them to raids unless they are 490, and ask 494 before coming to progress raids. i would like to see anyone get 494 within a week(even if that week is 2 resets) without raiding normal modes

[Deleted]

not even close. we will accept trials into our guild with any gear, even below level 90, but we dont take them to raids unless they are 490, and ask 494 before coming to progress raids. i would like to see anyone get 494 within a week(even if that week is 2 resets) without raiding normal modes

And exactly what is stopping said player from pugging normal modes? Not to mention that 494 req. is your choice, it's evidently (since we've managed with less) not required that every player has it for normal modes.

[pld]

As an officer/founding member of a 10m team, it's incredibly difficult to recruit a 25m team. Once you get 8 solid members, it's easy to pug 2 more people to form a 10 man raid (until you can get a solid 10), but if you only have 15 people, that leaves 1 full 10m team and 5 people who get left out.

Unless you're on an extremely active server or have a large circle of raiders to start with, it's just easier to have 10m raids.

[Osmeric]

The grey represents the amount of 10 man guild kills of a certain boss and the brown is the 25 man kills.

I have never managed a guild myself but is it really that hard? Are people lazy? Is 25 man harder?

Raids were made harder in Cataclysm and MoP. compared to Wrath. As a result, most guilds struggled.

If a guild is struggling, there's a strong incentive to downsize from 25 to 10 man, if that means you don't have to carry your team's lesser performers.

And that's what happened -- teams with problems downsized, or they broke up when the better players went elsewhere to more functional 10 man teams.

---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 05:20 PM ----------

Guildhopping not possible due to guild levels and rep.

That's BS. Any guild with a pulse has lvl 25 now. And your rep is unimportant once you've gotten the vanity items/heirlooms, and is easy to grind back up anyway.

[Keoren]

Many of the more casual guilds have shifted over to the 10-man environment. There aren't too many 25-man equivalents left. This also somewhat explains the graph where you can see the amount of 10-man kills dwindle drastically. A big percentage of the 25-man guilds that have killed the first heroic boss of the tier have also defeated the rest of them.

There are also arguments regarding the difference in difficulty but those are better left alone. It is for the best to treat the two as separate forms of content. The only notion that I might add that relates to this is that many guilds also decided to simply pick their best players and form a strong 10-man guilds over struggling with having to make up for the mistakes of others in the 25-man format.