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  1. #1

    Unholy haste breakthrough? Be a part of theory-crafting!

    Unholy Gargoyle mechanics:

    30 second duration, 3 minute cooldown, casts gargoyle strike with a base cast time of 2.000 seconds. This scales with the players spell haste linearly, eg. if you have 20% spell haste, the cast time becomes (2/1.2) or 1.666 cast time. However, despite the expected 15 shots with a cast time of 2 and a 30 second duration, gary only manages to get off 11 casts with 0 haste.

    Testing at first indicated that, no matter his cast time, he would always get off 11 casts. But then...
    Spell haste | Cast Time | Casts
    00.00% | 2.000 | 11/10/9
    19.08% | 1.679 | 11/11/11
    19.18% | 1.678 | 11
    21.03% | 1.652 | 11/11
    21.41% | 1.647 | 11
    21.43% | 1.647 | 11/12
    23.31% | 1.622 | 11
    23.60% | 1.618 | 11/11/12
    24.18% | 1.611 | 12
    24.29% | 1.609 | (11) * 8/(12)*4
    24.48% | 1.607 | 12
    24.88% | 1.602 | 13/14
    25.01% | 1.600 | 15/16
    25.04% | 1.599 | 12/12/13/14
    25.26% | 1.597 | 16
    25.39% | 1.595 | 16
    27.27% | 1.571 | 11
    27.34% | 1.570 | 15
    27.36% | 1.570 | 16
    27.67% | 1.567 | 14
    28.71% | 1.553 | 16/16/16/17
    29.64% | 1.543 | (16)*5/15
    30.51% | 1.532 | 15/15/16
    31.28% | 1.523 | (16)*6
    37.16% | 1.458 | (16)*4/15
    42.77% | 1.401 | 13 (using zerking)
    52.00% | 1.315 | 17
    62.95% | 1.227 | 16
    65.57% | 1.208 | 16
    69.66% | 1.179 | 17/17
    111.83% | 0.944 | 16 (lv 80)

    Unholy seems to have a haste breakthrough! At this value of spell haste, which SEEMS to be between 27.27 and 27.34, which is 9015 and 9044 haste rating raid buffed, gary starts to scale with haste. This is a major breakthrough, because all of that haste starts to apply to gary at once, and napkin math puts it at as much as a 2-4k dps. This needs more research to find the exact point and confirm the findings. I'll be compiling data, but in-game it's difficult to test every single level of haste.

    So here is what we are going to do. Spend 5 minutes to respec to unholy (unless you already are), go to a training dummy, and cast Gargoyle with recount up. Please reply with the following:
    Haste rating.
    Spell haste in spellbook.
    Cast time of gary, (less digits are ok, easy for me to confirm this by looking at spell haste)
    The number of casts gary gets off.

    The most important numbers are between 9k and 9.1k haste.
    Much much higher numbers are also important, to see if there are multiple breakthroughs.
    5% spell haste does effect gary.
    If you want to test a higher number, try getting a shaman to cast bloodlust on you.
    DO NOT use darkmist vortex, it will only be up for part of gary's duration, and screw with the number of casts.
    Bloodlust only works if it's up for the entire duration of gary.
    The more numbers we have, the better.

    Credit for discovery of this little quirk goes to Devodante.

    Thanks for the numbers from:

    Still collecting more numbers, but this set of data indicates there is a haste breakpoint, and it's after 27.34%, but I'm still not sure where it starts. Gary's AI works in "ticks", every X ms, he decides what to do. If he finishes a cast, and there isn't a tick for another 300 ms, he'll just derp around and do nothing for that 300 ms. The "breakpoint" appears to be where he finishes a cast right before a tick happens.

    Also seeing evidence from multiple places that his first cast always has a time of 2 seconds, regardless of haste. I'm not sure what this indicates, perhaps that it takes him a certain amount of time to scale to his master's stats.

    The breakpoint seems to be a little lower than we first thought, but also varies with server lag.
    Last edited by Mendenbarr; 2013-03-28 at 09:06 PM.

  2. #2
    10,324 haste or 24.29% spell haste.

    12 casts, then 11 next test.

    Invited a shaman so I got 5% spell haste and bloodlust for a total of 69.66% spell haste. 17 casts twice in a row.

    Without bloodlust but with 5% spell haste (30.51%) he got off 15 casts twice in a row, then 16 casts the third test.

    I then reforged down to 9051 haste (with shaman buff still) for 27.36% spell haste. 16 casts.

    9051 haste with 5% spell haste and Bloodlust = 65.57% spell haste. 16 casts still.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the numbers, I'm surprised it's varying on a trial by trial basis, I'd expect the same number of casts with the same amount of haste. It's possible it was some sort of recording fault, when I was testing and watching Gary cast, I would on occasion drop combat and screw up recount, but it's also possible he has a chance to cast somewhere inbetween two numbers. The 12 doesn't fit with the current model though, it should always be 11, or 15 or higher with unchanging haste. Did you use beserking at all? Or have darkmist vortex, or herb haste buff?

  4. #4
    12202 Haste
    28.71% Spell Haste

    Test 1:
    16 casts

    Test 2:
    17 casts

    Test 3:
    16 casts

    Test 4:
    16 casts

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Thanks for the numbers, I'm surprised it's varying on a trial by trial basis, I'd expect the same number of casts with the same amount of haste. It's possible it was some sort of recording fault, when I was testing and watching Gary cast, I would on occasion drop combat and screw up recount, but it's also possible he has a chance to cast somewhere inbetween two numbers. The 12 doesn't fit with the current model though, it should always be 11, or 15 or higher with unchanging haste. Did you use beserking at all? Or have darkmist vortex, or herb haste buff?
    I wouldn't be surprised if Gary suffers from a similar issue that boomkin treants do in that they'll just randomly not get the appropriate amount of casts in per their haste level.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Saybel's Avatar
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    Going to add in my post now and update it with more tests as I test it, so

    I am a goblin, so my base spell haste is 19.08% haste, 57.19% melee haste, 7609 rating (+17.90% Haste)

    Using no haste procs, Spark of Zandalar 502 and Relic of Xuen.

    Gargoyle /w NO UF, 19.08% spell haste, 57.19% melee haste -

    1st test - 11 Strikes
    2nd test - 11 Strikes
    3rd test - 11 Strikes

    Gargoyle /w 4set UF (30%), 19.08% spell haste

    11 Strikes, again

    Gargoyle /w spell haste buff, 25.04% spell haste
    1st test - 13 strikes
    2nd test - 12 strikes (wut?)
    3rd test - 14 strikes
    4th test - 12 strike
    Last edited by Saybel; 2013-03-27 at 12:27 AM.
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  7. #7
    I don't expect UF to effect gary, as it's melee haste, and he scales with spell haste.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Did you use beserking at all? Or have darkmist vortex, or herb haste buff?
    Worgen, did not have vortex equipped and I'm BS/Eng. I'll do a few more tests at that specific level of haste in a second and record the results.

  9. #9
    9,974 haste + 5% spell haste from shaman.

    1. 16 hit
    2. 16 hit
    3. 16 hit

    ps. just curious, that are there result saying, that there is no reason to gear haste after that 9044 haste? I am dummy...
    Last edited by markkali; 2013-03-26 at 10:59 PM.

  10. #10
    If this turns out to be reliable, the value of haste will remain the same until you hit 9044ish, then it gets a pretty huge dps increase from hitting that point. Then it goes back to being the same.

  11. #11
    Another 10 tests at 10,324 haste (24.29%): 7x 11 casts, 3x 12.

  12. #12
    from tonights logs
    8255 haste +5% from haste buff (no BL no lei shi trinket)-> always 16 strikes, except on 1 pull were i got 17

  13. #13

    10637~ Haste (24.99%) + 5%
    16 Casts, even with full duration heroism.

    Lei Shen 16 - 16 - 16 copypasted out of our logs, ran a query for it.
    (it seems like wol didnt record one cast, atleast it looks like it, thought it'd be 16-15-16, but
    there is a line missing which i can't get behind @ world of logs, it seems a bit odd, garg probably casted but log browser didnt show the number, so I think it'd be okay to say 16-16-16, as there are 16 casts, just 15 dmgnumbers)
    Twin Consorts 16 - 16 - 16. Last one with heroism [20:38:02.646] casted

    /e: tested with 80 DK with 62.95% Spell Haste, couldn't get more than 16 casts. First cast seemed a bit odd, even with time warp (had the buff presummon), 2 seconds, afterwards 0.9 seconds, only 16 anyway. Can't test again as I don't have any buffbots left and my recount seems to mess up the try (mage went offline, wanted to lookup the amount of casts, couldnt lookup anything like its been reseted), will add some more later doubt that this is a reliable source anyway, so just an addition without any relevance probably
    Last edited by Discodelya; 2013-03-27 at 01:49 AM.

  14. #14
    I'll post here to come back with some numbers if I manage to replace my Darkmist tonight.

  15. #15
    Some more results with 27.5% spellhaste.

    1. 16 cast
    2. 15 cast
    3. 16 cast

  16. #16
    OP is up to date as of this point.

  17. #17
    minor update for 10497 (24.70% Spell Haste)
    unbuffed. 11-12, doesn't matter how much I try, there are still 11 and 12 ones, don't get exactly behind the mechanic. Seems also to have a bit downtime in between the casts, maybe some kind of GCD lock (as it had in the past?). Cast Time 11 12
    switched to 10619 (24.99% Spell Haste)
    it makes me kinda curious, had two casts (wat?) which were 2 seconds, afterwards 1.6x seconds 11 again 2 seconds casttime amount of casts (11)
    afterwards he (it?) stopped casting two casts in a row for 2 seconds, but kept casting one 12 casts

    Kind of curious why there are sometimes two 2s casts, even one is kinda sad. maybe the scaling just gets calculated while casting the first (uncalculated) cast. Tempted to say it could be some kind of secondary stat calculation while the first cast is going off. Still not getting behind the second 2s cast which rarely occurs, but there arent any other circumstances I noticed, everytime the same, rightclick to get recount 'started', gargoyle, autohit. Would be nice to get some more informations regarding this.
    Thought at first procs could be a reason, dps 2piece summoning while the cast goes off (you never know, heard of even more curious bugs, so its a possibility), but it seems to be kind of rng, atleast what I've been able to watch.

    /e: amount of 2 seconds cast doesn't seem to affect the total amount of casts the gargoyle does, had my first experience without a 2 seconds cast and even tho I only had 11 casts in total.
    Would try with raidbuffs, but I don't have friends, so I can't. Or atleast not usable ones at this time. another 11 casts (without 2 seconds casts). So, the secondary-stat calculation theory is probably out of the window (I already doubted it in the first instance, as the occurence of critical hits with the first cast were higher than expected without proper scaling), anyways interested what the possibilites are.
    I will take the possibility into account that it still is the range where it has been casted, it will proper position itself, maybe this could be the reason for the first 2 seconds cast to 'normalize' the amount of all casts done, just a theory, nothing serious.

    now with 5% spellhaste buff
    17 casts instead of 11-12 1.5x seconds cast
    and then again, another try
    15 casts
    16 casts
    28 world ms, low populated realm
    changed boot enchant 10794 Haste Rating (25.40%) + Spell Haste 5% seems to be always 16, couldn't reproduce 17 casts, tested more than 10 times.
    seems to be 13 without spellhaste

    still dont get it, same circumstances, different amount of casts with 24.99%
    Last edited by Discodelya; 2013-03-28 at 03:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Alright tried it and with a base 9183 (21.61%) haste I got these numbers:

    No buffs (21,61%) I got 12 ticks on first try, 11 on second, 11 on third and 11 on fourth (flew away when the cast had 0.5sec left to complete)
    With spell haste (27,69%) I got 15 the first try, 13 (?!) the second one (though it did look like he got stuck in the mountain), and 15 again the third try
    With lust (65,9%) I got 16 on the first try, 17 on second(MIGHT have counted wrong, didn't get it any other tries and my Shaman kept spamming CL on the dummies so skada didn't reset), 16 on third and 16 fourth try.

    I'll post new numbers if I manage to get my hand on the Horridon trinket next reset!
    Last edited by Kapaya; 2013-03-29 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Megaera logs from last night. 3 casts, 48 strikes total, so 16 per. 9681 haste rating.

  20. #20
    Base Stats
    Haste: 8990
    Spell Haste: 21.15%
    Cast time: 1.650
    Latency: 220/230 (avg)

    Tests / Casts
    Test 1: 11
    Test 2: 11
    Test 3: 11
    Test 4: 11
    Test 5: 12
    Test 6: 11
    Test 7: (SP Haste) 16
    Test 8: (SP Haste) 16
    Test 9: (SP Haste + Lust) 16
    Test 10: (SP Haste + Lust) 16

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