Survival Hunter Questions

[Lazerfeet]

1.What is the best opener for a single target fight? I know that SrS changes its damage every tick So i throw that out first normally then explosive shot which usually gets procs going then BA. I dont know if thats right or wrong any imput would be awesome.

2. The haste break point. should I try and get 1.66 cast time on CS? And what is the actually rating number to get 1.66

3.Is rapid fire really only used when you are CS ing? Does it not affect anything else for Survivial hunters

Thanks guys

any other tips that you guys know would also be much appreciated

[Tehstool]

1.What is the best opener for a single target fight? I know that SrS changes its damage every tick So i throw that out first normally then explosive shot which usually gets procs going then BA. I dont know if thats right or wrong any imput would be awesome.

2. The haste break point. should I try and get 1.66 cast time on CS? And what is the actually rating number to get 1.66

3.Is rapid fire really only used when you are CS ing? Does it not affect anything else for Survivial hunters

Thanks guys

any other tips that you guys know would also be much appreciated

1. SrS doesn't change damage each tick (in the sense that hit and crit damage will always be relatively the same if you cast SrS then look at the ticks). It's a snapshot of your stats the moment you cast it/cobra shot.

2. There is no haste plateau/breakpoint.

3. RF can be used whenever, it increases your focus regen allowing you to cast arcane shot more and if you have any real ppm oriented abilities/trinkets it increases their frequency.

[Lazerfeet]

thanks for the quick response.

So After hit/exp cap go for straight Crit?

[Tehstool]

thanks for the quick response.

So After hit/exp cap go for straight Crit?

Yes, if you have 0 Real PPM things (select trinkets, t15 set bonuses. If you are unsure you can always ask)
Crit > mastery > haste

If you have at least 1 Real PPM thing
Crit > haste > mastery

[aikanaro]

here this will help you out. www.femaledwarf.com

it is an online hunter spreadsheet calculator. it probably isnt 100% accurate but the site's owner does a great job of keeping it up to date and as accurate as possible.

[Deleted]

1.What is the best opener for a single target fight? I know that SrS changes its damage every tick So i throw that out first normally then explosive shot which usually gets procs going then BA. I dont know if thats right or wrong any imput would be awesome.

Concerning the opener i usually do something like this:

ES -> GT -> SS -> BA-> Stampede/Frevor/Rapid Fire -> AMoC -> ES

Usually from here on out you will get some LnL procs and just do your normal priority. I use Readiness right after ES and when GT is on a long CD, so somewhere around the 17 or 18 seconds mark after the start of the fight.

But i don't know if this is optimal. Maybe someone has some suggestions for a better opener?

[Deleted]

Concerning the opener i usually do something like this:

ES -> GT -> SS -> BA-> Stampede/Frevor/Rapid Fire -> AMoC -> ES

Usually from here on out you will get some LnL procs and just do your normal priority. I use Readiness right after ES and when GT is on a long CD, so somewhere around the 17 or 18 seconds mark after the start of the fight.

But i don't know if this is optimal. Maybe someone has some suggestions for a better opener?

I believe it's not optimal.
From what I know it should go something along this lines:
RF+BA -> SrS -> ES -> Stampede -> GT -> Fervor -> AMoC -> (if LnL proced spam ES until it goes on cd otherwise spam AS until you can use ES for the second time) -> Readiness -> ES -> GT -> reapply BA when it has <2sec duration left -> RF when the first one goes off -> continue pew pew
As for SrS I believe it should be reapllied manually when you have all the trinkets, CDs and pot active.
This is what I use but I'm also opened to suggestions.
EDIT: Forgot about Stampede LOL

[Tehstool]

I believe it's not optimal.
From what I know it should go something along this lines:
RF+BA -> SrS -> ES -> Stampede -> GT -> Fervor -> AMoC -> (if LnL proced spam ES until it goes on cd otherwise spam AS until you can use ES for the second time) -> Readiness -> ES -> GT -> reapply BA when it has <2sec duration left -> RF when the first one goes off -> continue pew pew
As for SrS I believe it should be reapllied manually when you have all the trinkets, CDs and pot active.
This is what I use but I'm also opened to suggestions.
EDIT: Forgot about Stampede LOL

I'd put stampede right after your first ability if you have any real ppm trinkets simply because with real ppm trinkets having bad luck protection you are guaranteed a proc at the start if you've been waiting for a decent amount of time, more uptime with procs on stampede. Other than that I don't think BA should come first.

[Deleted]

Yes, if you have 0 Real PPM things (select trinkets, t15 set bonuses. If you are unsure you can always ask)
Crit > mastery > haste

If you have at least 1 Real PPM thing
Crit > haste > mastery

I was going to wait untill I get the voodoo doll trinket and 2 set before going with haste but since I read your post, how much haste are we talking here? ballz out haste or are we aiming for a certain breakpoint?

[Tehstool]

I was going to wait untill I get the voodoo doll trinket and 2 set before going with haste but since I read your post, how much haste are we talking here? ballz out haste or are we aiming for a certain breakpoint?

just do as you'd normally do with mastery, but for haste.

[Lazerfeet]

great info everyone hopefully this helps

[Varick99]

My opener looks like this:
ES->BA->SrS->Stampede->Rapid Fire->GT->DB->either ES or most of the time I have a LnL proc->AMoC->Readiness->ES->GT->DB->wait for the first Rapid Fire to finish->Rapid Fire->reapply BA->wait for first AMoC to finish->AMoC

I like this because everything lines up nicely. Sometimes I may have to squeeze in a CS for some extra focus or a AS to bleed off some, but otherwise this seems to give me the highest burst at the start.

[Tehterokkar]

My opener looks like this:
ES->BA->SrS->Stampede->Rapid Fire->GT->DB->either ES or most of the time I have a LnL proc->AMoC->Readiness->ES->GT->DB->wait for the first Rapid Fire to finish->Rapid Fire->reapply BA->wait for first AMoC to finish->AMoC

I like this because everything lines up nicely. Sometimes I may have to squeeze in a CS for some extra focus or a AS to bleed off some, but otherwise this seems to give me the highest burst at the start.

If you want to min-max, don't use DB. Fervor is superior at single target stand still even. In any case, Fervor offers much more fluid starting rotation because aMoC sucks up 60 Focus.

I do:
ES > SrS > BA > Fervor+aMoC > GT > RF+Stamp > ES(Or LnL procs if it has happened) > Readiness+ES > GT

And then just use RF, Fervor, BA and aMoC whenever needed.

[Stridur]

I'm using this for my opener on surv ( I did not write this rotation just use it)

-02: Misdirect
-01: Hunter's Mark
+00: Potion + Black Arrow
+01: Serpent Sting
+02: Explosive Shot
+03: Stampede
+04: Rapid Fire + Blood Fury (+ engineering gloves if you have) + Barrage
+05: Fervor + AMoC
+06: Explosive Shot (x3 if LnL has proced)
+07: Explosive Shot
+08: Explosive Shot
+09: Readiness + Barrage
+10: Cobra Shot
+11: Explosive Shot
...
+18-19: Black Arrow (you can send it when your previous BA has 2-0 sec duration left on the target, since with the new dot system you new BA will have a ~21sec duration and you won't lose any ticks)
+20: Rapid Fire

[Saoron]

If you want to min-max, don't use DB. Fervor is superior at single target stand still even. In any case, Fervor offers much more fluid starting rotation because aMoC sucks up 60 Focus.

I do:
ES > SrS > BA > Fervor+aMoC > GT > RF+Stamp > ES(Or LnL procs if it has happened) > Readiness+ES > GT

And then just use RF, Fervor, BA and aMoC whenever needed.

Please quote a source when claiming one ability is better than the other. Any and all sims disagree with you.

[eschatological]

Another reason why sims are often not better than practice: Dire Beast needs to hit to gain its focus/do its damage, and has the same crappy AI your pet does, except you cannot control it. There's a reason most of the top hunters use SV, and its because the crappy method in which DB does its damage/regens its focus cannot compare to the on-demand steady influx of focus that Fervor gives, unless the DB is buffed by beiing affected by BM's mastery.

[Saoron]

That is irrelevant when it comes to an 'objective' debate between which ability nets more dps.. Quite obviously DB is dependant on whether it hits the target or not.. If I say a similar comment about Fervor I'd say 'Well sims aren't better than practice because they will always use Fervor optimally.. Whereas in practice if you pop it at 55 focus, you lose 5 focus.." etc etc.. Using the abilities 'properly' is up to the player.. If you know there is a lot of target switching, obviously DB will lose it's value.. no one is arguing that point.. If you pop fervor right before a phase transition or something, and you can't dps.. it loses it's value..

The main point was Single Target. And there is no question that DB is better in that case. But just like last tier, BM > SV on ST.. so it's kinda moot. Unless there are severe pet issues, in which case SV with fervor would be best.

[Tehterokkar]

That is irrelevant when it comes to an 'objective' debate between which ability nets more dps.. Quite obviously DB is dependant on whether it hits the target or not.. If I say a similar comment about Fervor I'd say 'Well sims aren't better than practice because they will always use Fervor optimally.. Whereas in practice if you pop it at 55 focus, you lose 5 focus.." etc etc.. Using the abilities 'properly' is up to the player.. If you know there is a lot of target switching, obviously DB will lose it's value.. no one is arguing that point.. If you pop fervor right before a phase transition or something, and you can't dps.. it loses it's value..

The main point was Single Target. And there is no question that DB is better in that case. But just like last tier, BM > SV on ST.. so it's kinda moot. Unless there are severe pet issues, in which case SV with fervor would be best.

SV with Fervor/aMoC/GT: 122185.32 DPS
SV with DB/aMoC/GT: 121739.72 DPS (-445.6)

Also the pet issues really bother DB. Most of the time when I summon it, it comes to me and then after I have spammed a macro with "/petattack" in it for a few times it goes to boss therefore losing potency. That is not reflected in Sims in any way, Sims are perfect scenarios so it doesn't count in pet Derps.

[Saoron]

can I have a link to your armory so I can test to confirm ?

SV with Fervor: 124877.98 DPS
SV with DB: 126940.62 DPS (+2062.64 DPS) which is quite significant.

I have actually never had that issue unless I'm going long periods of not attacking anything, which doesn't happen.. Almost every time I summon the DB, it drops down ON the target and immediately starts attacking it.. I dunnu what's causing it to come to you. But one again though, that doesn't change the theoretical output of the two abilities.. I already said this but obviously DB depends on whether it gets full uptime or not.. I didn't use DB on protectors for instance, since back then they kept dying to kaolan's corruptions.. But I haven't had issues with it thus far this tier.. So DB > Fervor, except if there are situations where it can't get 100% uptime.. Which is different on a fight-fight basis.. Which is why I run through almost a stack of tomes every week lol.

[Jeremypwnz]

All have 75 ms which is what I seem to run. My adjusted settings include 2 Stormlashes and 1 Banner, also set "<20% range" to 20% of the fight instead of 15%, lacking the stacking of cooldowns and lust like at the start.

Basic settings + 5 minute fight

SV /w Fervor: 129527.93
SV /w DB: 130300.02 (+772.09)

Adjusted settings + 3 minute fight

SV /w Fervor: 142834.47
SV /w DB: 144386.90 (+1552.43)

Adjusted settings + 5 minute fight

SV /w Fervor: 133398.21
SV /w DB: 133102.49 (-295.72)

Adjusted settings + 8.5 minute fight

SV /w Fervor: 128231.94
SV /w DB: 127905.17 (-326.77)

We also can't forget that FD does "Fervor and focus fire will be used on cooldown unless disabled." So it's possible that Fervor has a chance of being partially wasted. Unless there is some kind of safeguard to prevent overcapping focus or something on this ability. I don't think the focus gain from DB would be wasted since you don't get so much at once, I could be wrong though.

Seems like DB wins on shorter fights while Fervor seems to even it out as the fight progresses on longer, based on my findings at least.