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  1. #1

    Sacrificing iLvl for 4set + 2set

    I was just curious on how much iLvl it is alright to sacrifice in order to get the 4set and the 2set bonuses (MM) In this specific case it would be sacrificing iLvl to keep the T20 4set. Do you guys think that 8% speed and focus reduction is important enough over decent 15 or 20ilvl upgrades?

    inb4 go sim, this is just for opinions

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral ReVnX's Avatar
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    Opinions matter little.

    Numbers are what matter

  3. #3
    Life isn't one big patchwerk fight

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brostro View Post
    Life isn't one big patchwerk fight
    that's a beautiful quote.

  5. #5
    Life isn't some unfounded subjective opinions by random people on the Internet. If Life is anything, it's educated decisions, and sims are a big part of making an objectively founded, educated decision, even if sims aren't everything. Naive "quote".

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Life isn't some unfounded subjective opinions by random people on the Internet. If Life is anything, it's educated decisions, and sims are a big part of making an objectively founded, educated decision, even if sims aren't everything. Naive "quote".
    I mean yeah, data is good, but the point of this thread is to get opinions. Additional useful information you don't get through the sim.

  7. #7
    In my honest opinion: You gotta sim it
    (I mean seriously, it's easy these days with raidbots.com)

    I know it's not the answer you want, but there are no valid "opinions" that can help you out here.

    I mean really, what are you going to do? Use higher ilvl because 3 random strangers on the web tell you to do so?
    If clearly you don't care about doing it right, why care at all? Either just sim it, or play whatever you feel like.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    I mean yeah, data is good, but the point of this thread is to get opinions. Additional useful information you don't get through the sim.
    There are cases where I agree this could be relevant.
    In this case however it isn't.

    Set bonus and ilvl are perfectly simable and there really is no "additional useful information" in this case.
    Last edited by Nythiz; 2017-12-13 at 06:47 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post
    In my honest opinion: You gotta sim it
    (I mean seriously, it's easy these days with raidbots.com)

    I know it's not the answer you want, but there are no valid "opinions" that can help you out here.

    I mean really, what are you going to do? Use higher ilvl because 3 random strangers on the web tell you to do so?
    If clearly you don't care about doing it right, why care at all? Either just sim it, or play whatever you feel like.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There are cases where I agree this could be relevant.
    In this case however it isn't.

    Set bonus and ilvl are perfectly simable and there really is no "additional useful information" in this case.
    Doesn't Speed tend to be one of those stats that throws things off a bit? It's a boost to utility and survivability that becomes less useful the more skilled a player is.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Life isn't some unfounded subjective opinions by random people on the Internet. If Life is anything, it's educated decisions, and sims are a big part of making an objectively founded, educated decision, even if sims aren't everything. Naive "quote".
    I guess poetry, paintings, cinema, writing, hobbies, sexuality, emotions aren't part of life then.

    On topic: It's true opinions here won't help much. Because you are asking at what point is it okay to ditch your bonuses for ilvl. And Azor's point is: Sims will tell you that, and it will be better than any opinions. The thing you should ask yourself, after simming yourself both with or without your bonus, how okay you are to live with X amount of DPS drop to retain the bonus' QoL. Azor's treshold is probably around -0.01% dps. Mine might be 5%, what's yours?

    Another example here would be things like on use trinkets, or the eradication orb collecting. I'm okay using a slightly lower simming option so I don't have to use those trinkets perfectly every time.
    Last edited by Bisso; 2017-12-13 at 07:02 PM.

  10. #10
    I mean, my opinion would be whatever sims highest.

  11. #11
    Thank you to the people atleast trying to be constructive while saying "sim it."

  12. #12
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    I mean, couldn't player experience help this dude out?
    Like, maybe a 4p/2p combo plays differently or alters rotation/priority/etc?
    Player experience is also valuable because not everyone is a robot with 0ms input lag and perfect ability usage.

    Probably not in this particular case (I personally don't know because I haven't played my hunter much in Legion because RIP SV), but maybe saying something like "the set bonuses won't offer any gameplay-altering effects or change your rotation/priority in any meaningful way, so simming your prospective gear vs the tier is the best way to see the numbers output" because at least that fills in the blank.

    Or maybe I overthought this.
    Very possible too.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Doesn't Speed tend to be one of those stats that throws things off a bit? It's a boost to utility and survivability that becomes less useful the more skilled a player is.
    I mostly find speed irrelevant. It's such a minor factor when generally you want bursts of speed.
    Generally disengage with posthaste is plenty for 99% of occasions; so I value speed very low.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    I mean, couldn't player experience help this dude out?
    Like, maybe a 4p/2p combo plays differently or alters rotation/priority/etc?
    Player experience is also valuable because not everyone is a robot with 0ms input lag and perfect ability usage.

    Probably not in this particular case (I personally don't know because I haven't played my hunter much in Legion because RIP SV), but maybe saying something like "the set bonuses won't offer any gameplay-altering effects or change your rotation/priority in any meaningful way, so simming your prospective gear vs the tier is the best way to see the numbers output" because at least that fills in the blank.

    Or maybe I overthought this.
    Very possible too.
    In some cases player experience can help, but in these kind of situations it's really hard.

    How many ilvl are we talking exactly?
    What pieces are you replacing? 20ilvls on gloves has a smaller impact than 20ilvls on chest.
    What kind of stats are we talking? Are we talking mastery/crit or are we talking vers/haste?
    What kind of fights do you have in mind for this? Are we talking single target only, are we talking cleave fights, are we talking mythic plus?

    There are SOOOO many factors that there is little player experience that can help in this aspect.

    In some cases it's easy to help, if for example his question was: is my 920 Arcanocrystal better than my 930 crit statstick; then we can probably say: Yes.
    In this case it's a bit harder.

    Sure player experience is also valuable. But if you're messing up the rotation than both the tier set as well as higher ilvl would be reduced value.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisso View Post
    I'm okay using a slightly lower simming option so I don't have to use those trinkets perfectly every time.
    Completely reasonable. But OP isn't willing to sim at all, so he's not allowing himself all the information available to make an educated decision like this.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brostro View Post
    I was just curious on how much iLvl it is alright to sacrifice in order to get the 4set and the 2set bonuses (MM) In this specific case it would be sacrificing iLvl to keep the T20 4set. Do you guys think that 8% speed and focus reduction is important enough over decent 15 or 20ilvl upgrades?

    inb4 go sim, this is just for opinions
    To help you out with some guidance.

    I've run T21 4 set sims against T20 4 set and my highest sim is still T20 4 set. My ilvl gear for my T20 pieces are between 915-925 only.

    Ideally I have found T21 2 set and T20 4 set to be the stronger combination for BM Dire Beast build.

    If I was to use my T21 4 set and my offpieces in my bag I would boost myself to +5 ilvl to 950 equipped. My ilvl T20 4set is only 945 equipped and still out sims and DPS T21 / 950 ilvl.

    Long story short - use T20 4 set until blizzard wakes up and nerfs it or fixed the T21 4 set.

  16. #16
    It is best to sim it for the most accurate numbers based options. However, from personal experience, I only had T20 2pc while using higher ilvl(940-950) with best stats in the other slots. I was not a fan of the T20 4pc.

    For a short time I then had the same 2pc T20 while also acquiring 2pc T21. This worked out well. Eventually, I went the same route and now only use T21 2pc with higher ilvl(950) replacing the former T20 2pc.

    Using the best trinkets you have in the right situation is key as well. Sadly, still don't have Unstable Arcanocrystal. Using a 945 mastery stat stick and either Tarnished Sentinel Medallion(920) for single target or Terminus Signaling Beacon(930) for AoE. Convergence of Fate(910) has been shelved since the reduction to 3s, causing it to sim about 10k behind the trinkets mentioned.
    Last edited by danko215; 2017-12-14 at 11:08 PM. Reason: spacing
    "Hunters view nature as a force with which to ally. They spend much of their time with an animal companion. The bond that forms between the two is rather strong. To attack either is to bring down the wrath of both. With powerful attacks in melee and at range, and a friend willing to put its life on the line at your command, the Hunter makes a potent addition to any group."

  17. #17
    Comparing sims on a game with what we'd define as life... what was the point?

    I am hoping to get the set piece from Eonar next reset(at least heroic, but mythic would be awesome to have) and then I still need to farm mythic Maiden in order to get the T20 cloak. I'll have a really strong 4 + 2 setup going then, but I'm pretty sure it'll take a while untill I'm done getting what I need.

  18. #18
    Here's my opinion

    Run Normal, Heroic, Mythic ToS each week. Hope for good War/Titan forging.

    Do this every week until you realize that Antorus is the last raid and you don't do Mythic raiding and question why you're even bothering doing this shit.

    I'm going to sleep now

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    Doesn't Speed tend to be one of those stats that throws things off a bit? It's a boost to utility and survivability that becomes less useful the more skilled a player is.
    In general it is not particularly valuable for MM because we already have disengage (+posthaste), cheetah, even windburst, and you're generally timing your movement for when you'd be casting arcane shot anyway
    start9

  20. #20
    Slightly off tangent question. Does the 4-set bonus (for MM) on t-21 do anything for single target. It just seems so bad that I feel I must be thinking about it wrong.

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