Can we expect Orc Paladins/Priests in the future?

[Venziir]

Right. I was just stating they were dead (Undead) Paladins. A lot of people didn't know that island even existed in the game.

Fair point. And true, a lot of people never even went to the Isle, as it's only purpose pre-cata was part of the ds1 upgrade quest line.

[-Superman-]

I can't argue with you, since you aren't using arguments. At this point you might as well be wearing a "The End is Nigh!" sign strapped to your neck.

That's just it. I am not looking for an argument. I am simply expressing my opinion. It is not my fault you insist on arguing with EVERY opinion that differs from yours. There's no argument to be had. I am allow to say "We should not have them" as much as you are allowed to say "We should have them". Not sure why we are not allowed to have differing opinions. Are you somehow threatened by the fact that some of us do not agree with you? It's ok if you are, but I will not sit here and fight about personal opinions and their validity. You have your point of view and I have mine. I will not defend my opinion since it is only a personal opinion and not really a matter for debate.

[Venziir]

That's just it. I am not looking for an argument. I am simply expressing my opinion. It is not my fault you insist on arguing with EVERY opinion that differs from yours. There's no argument to be had. I am allow to say "We should not have them" as much as you are allowed to say "We should have them". Not sure why we are not allowed to have differing opinions. Are you somehow threatened by the fact that some of us do not agree with you? It's ok if you are, but I will not sit here and fight about personal opinions and their validity. You have your point of view and I have mine. I will not defend my opinion since it is only a personal opinion and not really a matter for debate.

... Then pardon, but why are you in a debate thread? Entering a debate with nothing but opinions is like going to war unarmed, you wouldn't do that would you? Then why enter a debate without arguments?

[Repefe]

Or Orcs since they can be completely bald :P

Well, or wait for the new player models... Or wear a helmet that covers the hair. Or learn to deal with the longhaired elves I guess.

Well there are valid reasons why orcs shouldn't be paladins. Undeads already are warriors and priests ... paladin is just a combination of those two. New models for belves is the way to satisfy ppl who are not happy with current race selection without making the class available to other races. Instead of adding paladins to more races Blizz can just make belves look a bit more like a race that can wield a 5kg hammer without breaking its arms when they hit something hard with it.

Anyway shouldn't every race with access to priest class and warrior class have access to paladin class as well ... I always though paladins are just priests who can use melee weapons.

[-Superman-]

... Then pardon, but why are you in a debate thread?

It doesn't say "Debate" anywhere in this thread, or even at the front door. It says "Can we expect Orc Paladins/Priests in the future?". This means someone posed a question, and I gave an answer. If it were a "debate", I never would have stepped foot into a debate about a subject with such minor significance. The entire thread is found under General Discussions, not General Debates.

[Venziir]

Well there are valid reasons why orcs shouldn't be paladins. Undeads already are warriors and priests ... paladin is just a combination of those two. New models for belves is the way to satisfy ppl who are not happy with current race selection without making the class available to other races. Instead of adding paladins to more races Blizz can just make belves look a bit more like a race that can wield a 5kg hammer without breaking its arms when they hit something hard with it.

Anyway shouldn't every race with access to priest class and warrior class have access to paladin class as well ... I always though paladins are just priests who can use melee weapons.

A warrior + priest doesn't equal a Paladin though, that would equal a Cleric. A Paladin is much more than that (as I posted earlier, just because you have a race that can be priests doesn't mean they can be paladins, however any race that can be a Paladin must also have the priest class, as the two are intertwined under the same "Holy" Order, however if there is no Paladin class, that means that there isn't such an Order), as they have a code as well, a code that differs from race to race, order to order. So no, a paladin isn't just a priest who uses a melee weapon. Something tells me you've never played D&D :P

... Oh and before anyone says "WoW isn't D&D!" then obviously they are right, however *any* fantasy franchise bar Tolkien is influenced by D&D.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:28 PM ----------

It doesn't say "Debate" anywhere in this thread, or even at the front door. It says "Can we expect Orc Paladins/Priests in the future?". This means someone posed a question, and I gave an answer. If it were a "debate", I never would have stepped foot into a debate about a subject with such minor significance. The entire thread is found under General Discussions, not General Debates.

.... However it's listed in the "General Discussions" forum.... So yeah, it's a debate. And really? You even know what a debate is? "Debate is contention in argument; dispute, controversy; discussion; esp. the discussion of questions of public interest in Parliament or in any assembly.[1]"

[-Superman-]

I always though paladins are just priests who can use melee weapons.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin

Paladins are the virtuous defenders of the weak and tireless, unfaltering enemies of the undead. Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

[Repefe]

A warrior + priest doesn't equal a Paladin though, that would equal a Cleric. A Paladin is much more than that, as they have a code as well, a code that differs from race to race, order to order. So no, a paladin isn't just a priest who uses a melee weapon. Something tells me you've never played D&D :P

I actually read a book not long ago where priest was given title paladin as a kind of 00 status, all sins forgiven, use of deadly force allowed ... guess the term can be used more vaguely.

[Venziir]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin

Paladins are the virtuous defenders of the weak and tireless, unfaltering enemies of the undead. Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

Hah yup, that's basically the good ol' Vanilla Paladin/D&D Paladin description right there

[Drfireburns]

Fair point. And true, a lot of people never even went to the Isle, as it's only purpose pre-cata was part of the ds1 upgrade quest line.

I went there, but wasn't for that reason. I was just exploring one day trying to find hidden places in the game, and came across it. Couldn't believe I found Undead Paladins in the game. I couldn't decide if it was a bug, or something that should of been removed like Kara Crypts, etc.

[Venziir]

I actually read a book not long ago where priest was given title paladin as a kind of 00 status, all sins forgiven, use of deadly force allowed ... guess the term can be used more vaguely.

Not really, as you kinda just proved my point. This priest is given a title, thus a new role, thus he is no longer a priest. The first Knights of the Silver Hand in Warcraft were Clerics and Priests too, who were taught how to wield the Light in a new manner, as well as wearing plate armor, riding on horseback and fighting with material weapons, while also learning the codex and doctrine of the Silver Hand.

[Repefe]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin

Paladins are the virtuous defenders of the weak and tireless, unfaltering enemies of the undead. Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

\

So mix of warrior and priest is cleric and mix of cleric and warrior is wow paladin ... still on track between warrior and priest for me.

[Venziir]

I went there, but wasn't for that reason. I was just exploring one day trying to find hidden places in the game, and came across it. Couldn't believe I found Undead Paladins in the game. I couldn't decide if it was a bug, or something that should of been removed like Kara Crypts, etc.

Fair point heh, I think the first time I even discovered the Isle was in Wotlk, trying to get all the "Explore" achievements, and I noticed the name "Purgation Isle" on the Hillsbrad one and though "Huh, that's odd...".

[Repefe]

Not really, as you kinda just proved my point. This priest is given a title, thus a new role, thus he is no longer a priest. The first Knights of the Silver Hand in Warcraft were Clerics and Priests too, who were taught how to wield the Light in a new manner, as well as wearing plate armor, riding on horseback and fighting with material weapons, while also learning the codex and doctrine of the Silver Hand.

I am not sure you understand my point ... paladin combines melee combat with holy magic. Priest does holy magic. Warrior does melee combat. If a race has access to both warrior and priest, what stops them from having access to their hybrid.

[Venziir]

Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

\

So mix of warrior and priest is cleric and mix of cleric and warrior is wow paladin ... still on track between warrior and priest for me.

Obvioulsy it's a mix, since it involves elements from both a Priest and a Warrior, but it's still more than just a mix as there are other things involved, such as the codex, fighting style and so forth.

[-Superman-]

.... However it's listed in the "General Discussions" forum.... So yeah, it's a debate. And really? You even know what a debate is? "Debate is contention in argument; dispute, controversy; discussion; esp. the discussion of questions of public interest in Parliament or in any assembly.[1]"

Well, I would absolutely understand the definition of debate. As you were kind enough to edit your post again to add it. You are correct. Contention in argument, dispute, or controversy. Since my opinion is a personal opinion, I am not arguing or disputing my stance, or yours. As I said, we are both entitled to our opinions. The next part "the discussion of questions of public interest[/B] in Parliament or in any assembly. Since this is neither a government, nor an official assembly of the Blizzard community intent on serious discussion about this topic as a reality as it pertains to future race/class combinations recommended by Activision and Blizzard Entertainment, and merely just a thread on a fan site, made by a fan, posing a basic question about something that is not currently even on Blizzard's plate to be made a part of this game, then no... your definition of debate is not applicable here.

I'm beginning to think my original assessment of your constant need to argue with people was spot on.

[Celista]

Having class limitations on any race seems pretty outdated.

I agree considering the Forsaken holy priests we've had in game since forever and some other convoluted race/class combos. Should just be done away with at this point.

A race can "learn" the ways of the monk or death knight in the space of an expansion but it takes 3+ expansions for a gnome to learn to become a hunter...?

[-Superman-]

Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter.

\

So mix of warrior and priest is cleric and mix of cleric and warrior is wow paladin ... still on track between warrior and priest for me.

It's cool. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. It is just a discussion after all. Not all of us love to argue and are taking this so seriously.

[Venziir]

I am not sure you understand my point ... paladin combines melee combat with holy magic. Priest does holy magic. Warrior does melee combat. If a race has access to both warrior and priest, what stops them from having access to their hybrid.

... The code, and doctrine and ways of the individual Paladin Order, that's what stops them. Take the Darkspear trolls for example, they have warriors and priests. The warriors fight, and the priests revere the Loa - however they do not have an order of "Loa-Knights" (yes I just invented that term for lack of a better), so therefore no Paladin.

However, the Humans/Dwarves have Priests that revere the Holy Light, and there's also the (reformed) Knights of the Silver Hand who also revere the Holy Light, this order has both Dwarf and Human members, therefor the Human and Dwarves have Paladins.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:41 PM ----------

Well, I would absolutely understand the definition of debate. As you were kind enough to edit your post again to add it. You are correct. Contention in argument, dispute, or controversy. Since my opinion is a personal opinion, I am not arguing or disputing my stance, or yours. As I said, we are both entitled to our opinions. The next part "the discussion of questions of public interest[/B] in Parliament or in any assembly. Since this is neither a government, nor an official assembly of the Blizzard community intent on serious discussion about this topic as a reality as it pertains to future race/class combinations recommended by Activision and Blizzard Entertainment, and merely just a thread on a fan site, made by a fan, posing a basic question about something that is not currently even on Blizzard's plate to be made a part of this game, then no... your definition of debate is not applicable here.

I'm beginning to think my original assessment of your constant need to argue with people was spot on.

"Any assembly" - this forum is an assembly of people on the internet. And whether or not you deem it a serious discussion, it is still a discussion.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:43 PM ----------

I agree considering the Forsaken holy priests we've had in game since forever and some other convoluted race/class combos. Should just be done away with at this point.

A race can "learn" the ways of the monk or death knight in the space of an expansion but it takes 3+ expansions for a gnome to learn to become a hunter...?

They've explained how Holy Priests work for the Forsaken - they can be healed and use holy magic, it just hurts - a lot. And as for the Gnome Hunters, it's got nothing to do with the time, it's got to do with the interests and mindset of the race. Gnomes aren't really the woodsmen type of race. Though one could argue that they could be at least Marksmanship hunters, with really fancy rifles and what not.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:44 PM ----------

It's cool. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. It is just a discussion after all. Not all of us love to argue and are taking this so seriously.

Adorable attempt to be snide. It's got nothing to do with taking it too seriously, it's got to do with producing sound arguments and knowledge of the lore.

[Repefe]

... The code, and doctrine and ways of the individual Paladin Order, that's what stops them. Take the Darkspear trolls for example, they have warriors and priests. The warriors fight, and the priests revere the Loa - however they do not have an order of "Loa-Knights" (yes I just invented that term for lack of a better), so therefore no Paladin.

However, the Humans/Dwarves have Priests that revere the Holy Light, and there's also the (reformed) Knights of the Silver Hand who also revere the Holy Light, this order has both Dwarf and Human members, therefor the Human and Dwarves have Paladins.

Tl;dr Lore wise nothing stops undeads or trolls from being paladins ... Blizz just has to come up with order for them and ready to go.