[Frost PVP] Death Siphon

[ro9ue]

Has anyone tried this in PVP recently? I'm trying so hard to like it because I hate not having a go-to heal like the cata-era Death Strike. It was almost always up and was a nice reliable heal (granted a little OP).

Death Pact is a nice 50% hp heal (~200k with my gear) but it bothers me I can only use that once every 2min. With Death Siphon I see myself healing ~30-40k per Death Rune. Lately in PVP it seems the fights have been taking longer and Death Siphon over a long period of time doesn't seem too bad except you are spending runes.

I admit I PVE a lot more so I'm interested to hear dedicated PVPer opinions.

[KennyBoi3]

It doesn't hurt to experiment with it in regular BGs. However, in an ideal RBG group, your healers will be pro enough to keep you alive granted to provide the right pressure. It's there as a panic button in case you get focused. In that event, you should switch to Blood Presence as well. Just remember that you are trading off consistent high burst for healing. That and Blood Presence is your friend.

[Wrien]

Death Pact > Death Simphon > Conversion

for DW frost

[Senathor]

Death Pact > Death Simphon > Conversion

for DW frost

I would say Conversion > Death Pact > Death Siphon

[Baphomette]

I am definitely liking Conversion more than Death Pact. Without a healer, DP is a very short additional lease on life.

[Terahertz]

Frost doesn't synergize with Conversion as much as Unholy does. Death Siphon is also quite a waste of runes, which is your primary resource for damage. If you use Death Siphon to stay alive, you'll be missing out on a lot of damage/pressure. Death Siphon also seems to heal the same as Death Strike does tbh.

[Wrien]

Frost doesn't synergize with Conversion as much as Unholy does. Death Siphon is also quite a waste of runes, which is your primary resource for damage. If you use Death Siphon to stay alive, you'll be missing out on a lot of damage/pressure. Death Siphon also seems to heal the same as Death Strike does tbh.

No, runic power is by far the most vital dps-resource. There's no way i'm ever gonna use Conversion.

Death Simphon would be good if it healed a little more. Runes aren't that important for dps. Mostly to build RP.

(DW frost)

[Ebonheart]

Has anyone tried this in PVP recently? I'm trying so hard to like it because I hate not having a go-to heal like the cata-era Death Strike. It was almost always up and was a nice reliable heal (granted a little OP).

Death Pact is a nice 50% hp heal (~200k with my gear) but it bothers me I can only use that once every 2min. With Death Siphon I see myself healing ~30-40k per Death Rune. Lately in PVP it seems the fights have been taking longer and Death Siphon over a long period of time doesn't seem too bad except you are spending runes.

I admit I PVE a lot more so I'm interested to hear dedicated PVPer opinions.

Most probably my point isn't going to be valid here. But I noticed while levelling a new DK currently, till around level 80, Death Siphon is really really strong. That is what most Death Knights are doing in Random BGs. Spamming that one ability. The down side, it requires Death Runes.

It does the most damage among all our abilities and especially if it crits, you benefit from a good heal. Which is as good as a Paladin's Lay on Hands during these levels. I find Conversion to be a bit underwhelming at the lower levels. Death Pact, I've not bothered too much with it. I don't like the CD to it, and its too long for it to be much worth in BGs. It may be useful in Arenas.

What happens after level 80 or rather 83 as Frost and Unholy, you usually spend your Death Runes on Necrotic Strike which makes it harder to weave in Death Siphons. I can't compare this ability with any other one at level 90, but I am having a hard time using Death Siphon now.

As frost, I often find myself generating Runic Power faster than I can spend them at times, and during these moments, I find Conversion to be a bit better. If you have a healer with you, stick to Conversion and if not then stick to Death Siphon. The bonus thing about Death Siphon is that it doesn't impact your damage much. You are still dishing out damage while healing yourself.

[Nyanmaru]

[snip] What happens after level 80 or rather 83 as Frost and Unholy... [snip]

While the input about lower levels is appreciated (and interesting to read) it's like you guessed, it doesn't really apply to higher levels. Low level PvP (read as "levels beyond old level cap") was kinda broken since patch 2.0 was introduced. During TBC it wasn't as bad as it was starting with WotLK and onwards, all the talent overhauls mainly targeted endgame and made lower levels stupidly borked.

But your last point still holds true: Death Siphon may not provide as much burst healing or healing over time as the other 2, but it's the only talent that offers a (mild) DpS aspect. Biggest downside to this is that you are reliant on it's ability to deal damage to the enemy, if your enemy has defensive cooldowns up or is out of line of sight, your healing possibilities are severely lacking. And makes it unreliable from a survivability point of view.

[ro9ue]

Well after a lot of random BGing, I decided I like Death Siphon a lot. (With a healer friend with me, I do use Death Pact just as a quick oh-crap heal if he's getting CC'd until he can get back on me.) But lots of play with Death Siphon and it's pretty nice. I started noticing some 70k heals and it's hitting for around 40kish. Not bad for a Death Rune. I also tried a lot of Conversion BGs, and as DW with Frost Strike being my primary hit, I had a lot of trouble trying to figure out constantly should I spend my RP to heal a little or do some more burst dmg. If you're a 2h Obliterator, I can see Conversion being a lot better for you, but for DW, Death Siphon was a clear winner over Conv. An empower runic weapon can also be a decent healing CD, I was very low and popped it, got off two Siphons at 70k a piece and 2 death strikes at I think 30k for a total of 200k hp over 5 seconds.

Granted these are in unrated BGs, but it was very easy to keep myself topped off during long battles as long as I wasn't getting focused (but you usually never do in randoms). I would suggest anyone to at least give it a shot, I'll be using Siphon in all of my randoms that I run solo in.

[Ebonheart]

While the input about lower levels is appreciated (and interesting to read) it's like you guessed, it doesn't really apply to higher levels. Low level PvP (read as "levels beyond old level cap") was kinda broken since patch 2.0 was introduced. During TBC it wasn't as bad as it was starting with WotLK and onwards, all the talent overhauls mainly targeted endgame and made lower levels stupidly borked.

But your last point still holds true: Death Siphon may not provide as much burst healing or healing over time as the other 2, but it's the only talent that offers a (mild) DpS aspect. Biggest downside to this is that you are reliant on it's ability to deal damage to the enemy, if your enemy has defensive cooldowns up or is out of line of sight, your healing possibilities are severely lacking. And makes it unreliable from a survivability point of view.

Well true, but my main reasoning was trying to show the difference pre 83 and 83 onwards, cause at level 83 we learn Necrotic Strike and that becomes our primary ability at least in PVP and since Necrotic Strike uses a Death Rune, its harder to weave in Death Siphons.

[Nyanmaru]

Well true, but my main reasoning was trying to show the difference pre 83 and 83 onwards, cause at level 83 we learn Necrotic Strike and that becomes our primary ability at least in PVP and since Necrotic Strike uses a Death Rune, its harder to weave in Death Siphons.

Yep, it's nice for a damage oriented play without support but not quite as good from an overall competitive perspective.