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  1. #1
    The Unstoppable Force Trassk's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Having tea with Flowey

    So is this all we can expect from WOW from here on?

    Okay to start with, this is not a 'wow is dying' thread, I don't want people accusing this of being anything of the sort.

    I've been taking a long look at Wow in its current state, and something I've found myself thinking about a lot lately, and with the announcement of Titan and what new information there is coming from that, its really starting to hammer home the thought of how... is this all world of warcraft has to it now?

    Now don't get me wrong. I've been trying loads of other mmo's with a similar kind of theme that wow has to it, and no matter how many i try out, it always comes back tot wow as being the best of them. Even ones like guild wars 2 which has such promise, just ended up feeling one sided in terms of gameplay, being pvp focused.

    So when looking at all other mmo's today, wow still holds to itself as having the best mix of mechanics, boss fights, settings, utility, armor and gearing, player vs player and everything else inbetween.

    Its just that now, ever since wrath of the lich king, the game just feels like.. is this it? Is this all we can expect from wow now. Its basicly the same content redone over and over every expansion, the same setup, the same gimmicks, the same process, level to max level, gear your characters, raid, pvp, gear some more, wait for new tiers to come, gear some more, wait for next expansion, repeat.

    Now, I could just quit the game, but as I say, other games I have played I end up pretty much comparing to wow in terms of what it gives you and what you get out of it, and they just don't compare. And yet still i can't help but feel if this is all wow has left to it, if we can't expect anything new, can it even go anywhere from here it hasn't already been to?

    Sure they can make new story for it (though lets face it people haven't been that thrilled by recent story arches), but aside from that, I don't see anything else to come from it.

    I will though bring this up. From seeing the notes about Titan, I can't help but feel what blizzard are doing now, is regarding titan as the next major thing after warcraft, and putting all there attention into that. Now you could say here that stands to reason, focusing on something new like titan instead of something old like wow makes sense in terms of coming forward.
    But the issue I have with this, if blizzard are now focused to work purely on titan, can they even guarantee the vast playerbase of WOW will just go over to Titan, and so making it a worthwhile thing to focus on. Wow has a massive playerbase, and it just strikes me that if they are now focused purely on titan and wow will slowly get less and less focused development, isn't that kind of a negative thing against the loyal playerbase?

    I also just think they took some concept and ideas that wanted to put into wow but couldn't, and now decided to put it in titan. Player housing? Wow players have asked for that for several years now.

    Anyway, as I say this isn't a 'wow is dying' thread, its more an observation of what blizzard are currently doing, or what they seem to not be doing in other degrees.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-04-03 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Banned Orange Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    What more do you want from a mmo RPG?

  3. #3
    There is barely any information if none at all on Titan Trassk, not sure what your sources are but blizzard has been pretty tight lipped on what it is. I've enjoyed the current Wow patch, its pretty good. The phasing/gating and the scenarios tying in the story are great.

  4. #4
    Void Lord GennGreymane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Wokeville mah dood
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    What more do you want from a mmo RPG?
    yeah the whole

    level, do dungeons, get gear, raid... is standard for mmos

    hell runescape even has endgame stuff like that.... it just takes a lot longer

  5. #5
    Just because you don't take part in the new features doesn't mean there are no new features.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Having tea with Flowey
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Just because you don't take part in the new features doesn't mean there are no new features.
    I kind of have been, infact I've taken part in all new features.. they just don't feel new really.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Tempest Keep
    Pretty much yeah

  8. #8
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Oct 2010
    What else would you expect that isn't there now? I'm not being cynical here but lamenting the current state of the game with nothing in the way of any idea on what you would want to see added isn't very helpful to anyone.

    As for Titan, that's all rumor and while possibly true it's just as likely that it's going to be largely irrelevant when it releases years from now. And frankly from what I read I didn't see a lot in that post that looked overly new. Earth based? OK. Time travel? OK. That's not exactly earth-shattering creativity.

    Of course, Blizzard is going to roll out a major effort to sell a game that has been very expensive to develop. They want people to play it. That doesn't mean that they will abandon everything else.

    But why is it that people seem to think that Blizzard can only do one thing at a time? Where in the universe of gaming law does it say that a company can't run two MMO's and support them equally well?
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-04-03 at 05:24 PM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I kind of have been, infact I've taken part in all new features.. they just don't feel new really.
    You may just need a break. All hobbies getting boring after awhile with no break.

  10. #10
    I've loved the story arc for Mists of Pandaria. Cataclysm's story arc was actually really pretty good, but so spread out it was hard to follow the threads properly and the culmination didn't feel quite as grand as it should have. But I'm finding myself more eagerly anticipating the story patches than the raid patches right now (not that I dislike the raids, though I've only seen LFR this expansion. Stupid schedules and stupid real life.....being stupid).

    But first off, what notes about Titan? We've seen nothing about it.

    As for the model WoW uses, yeah, it's the same basic core with different glitter each time, but that's pretty much the same in every MMO since WoW came out. Therein lies the problem of a successful model; why deviate when it keeps proving successful?

    They have no intention of Titan replacing WoW. The guys at Blizzard, including business analysts, aren't idiots and they surely saw what happened when EQ2 was released expected to replace EQ1. It split their player base and both games were weakened and struggled afterwards as a result. Blizz will develop both games simultaneously as long as the market will play them, which is probably a very very long time for WoW still.

    Considering MMOs have proven successful with less than 1 million subscribers, you can expect WoW to keep along for a very long time.

    Player housing is something I agree with Blizzard on. You have to design that into the game from the ground up to truly be done well.

    You want a truly next gen MMO, look at Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Not the end result, not the response, not the success rate, but look at the ideas they were developing for that game. That's what the next big MMO should be doing and delivering with polish to trump WoW. Focus on making a living world first, then start to populate and make places to explore, etc.

    Worldwide moving weather patterns
    Small villages with player housing plots that, combined with other features, grow the village into towns, then into cities, and finally fortified walled cities with player economy affected based on the performance of other players (not adventuring, but crafters and diplomats playing their sphere of the game from within the city).
    A diplomacy system where players can negotiate and talk their way through problems instead of always resorting to "kill it for loot!" (the card game design Vanguard employed didn't feel right for this, but the concept is interesting)
    A more in depth mini game for crafting - Making crafting itself a pursuit one can spend time enjoying rather than a chore
    Conversation with NPCs that expands on the lore and the realm and world you're in rather than reading books or websites

    Vanguard had a ton of great ideas, but the implementation wasn't executed properly (personally, I felt they tried too much at launch; should have pulled back and held off on a continent and its associated races).

    I'm waiting to see what SOE does with the next EverQuest game. I feel like there's some promise if they made almost a year's worth of effort and scrapped it after feeling it was becoming another WoW clone and decided to start over and approach it with a new design model in mind. Fantasy world sandbox MMO could make me say "yes, please" if done correctly.

    I want less hand holding, less seed quests, less direction, and more "go out and explore and just....find stuff"

    The difficulty with that is websites like Allakazam and MMO Champion, yet somehow for a few years it seemed impossible to find story related information for FF XI. It was like Square had a stranglehold on any website that tried to detail the story and mission quests.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-04-03 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #11

    either you like it or you dont wows been wow since vanilla, small things change but overall its still the same game
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  12. #12
    Come up with ideas, and put them in the suggestions forum. Oh you have none? That's because there's nothing more to an mmorpg.
    Corsa | Denso | Pooting | Pootle | Stiks | Pootatos | Pootster | Corbs | Pootatoes

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sphexy View Post
    Come up with ideas, and put them in the suggestions forum. Oh you have none? That's because there's nothing more to an mmorpg.
    See above regarding Vanguard. I've not seen the diplomacy, player housing that actually creates the world's cities, weather patterns that persist through the world across zones and affect combat actually implemented in any MMOs.

    There's room to explore, but not while companies worry about success emulated from WoW. Someone will have to take the risk like Blizzard did with WoW.

  14. #14
    I'm kind of optimistic for heroic scenarios.

    I think moving away from the holy trinity and letting players work around challenges in a way that isn't tank/heal/dps is refreshing. having to bust out the void walker, dust off earthbiter weapon, etc. and step into roles not meant for your class is fun, the draw was that most scenarios were soloable so there was a distinct lack of challenge.

  15. #15
    What you describe is the way WoW has ALWAYS been. Not "just since Wrath". The grind, the bosses, the gear is the way it's always gone and the way it will always be. From a high level perspective, WoW is the same today as it was in Vanilla and BC -but with a different skin. You grind some levels, you kill some bosses, you get some loot. Rinse. Repeat.

    You're just feeling the effect of time played. A lot of people quit WoW for this very reason. There's little Blizzard can do about it. If they made the major playstyle changes required to keep waning players interested, they'd be pretty much pissing off their core of curent players who still love the "grind, boss, loot" model.

    I quit WoW in great part for this very reason. But I don't blame Blizzard for that. What do I expect them to do? Make WoW have a FPS style targeting system for abilities just to shake things up? I mean, c'mon...

    You say WoW is stale. If you've been at it awhile, this is a true statement. However, here's the question I'd like to see you answer: What, specifically, do you think is a realistic course of action for them to correct this problem?

    I don't think there is one. And Blizzard seems to agree with me as there's still the grind, still the bosses and still the loot.
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I kind of have been, infact I've taken part in all new features.. they just don't feel new really.
    Which I think goes back to :

    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    What more do you want from a mmo RPG?
    Every mmo ever conceived is essentially some mix of leveling, getting to max level and getting adequate gear, then fighting the boss to get better than adequate gear. They throw in things like pet battles, scenarios, etc. because a lot of people like you are getting bored of the same old formula and want something different on the side, but the basic formula can never really change. I mean, take that question seriously for a moment...what would you add/change? 99% of the people who think about that question either come up with some crazy answer that essentially turns it from an mmo into a FPS or something - in which case they should quit the game and get battlefield or CoD - or realize that there isn't a whole lot to do to change the formula.

    They really are trying to keep it fresh as much as possible, and as much as ToT is just another raid tier, it is a very good raid tier, but in the end veteran players and devs are all in the same boat: we've been with WoW for 10 years and anything done on a weekly, hell almost on a daily basis, be it a job or a sport or a video game, is gonna get stale. My advice to people like you, and to people like myself, is to take a few months off. Either you'll find that you've truly grown away from WoW and prefer Fifa or CoD or SimCity or heck RL things like gardening or reading instead, or you'll find that a few months off made you crave WoW again for what it is.

    But yes, at the most basic level, expansion > raid 1 > raid 2 > raid 3 w/ main boss > expansion, with various 'extra' content sprinkled, in is essentially what we can expect from now until the day the last WoW server goes offline. There could possibly (5% chance? 3%?) be some game changing revelation, but I wouldn't hold my breath, if for no other reason than placating people like you/us with whatever that revolutionary update is would probably be just as effective at alienating veteran players content with the WoW formula.

  17. #17
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    The frozen north... of England.
    Sounds like you might be more at home in a sandbox MMO like EVE (Or hopefully the Cyrodiil portion of TES:O) as opposed to a theme park one, where the main attraction isn't the content the developers create for the players to experience, but rather what the players create for themselves by interacting with and butting heads against one another.
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer dacoolist's Avatar
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    Sep 2010
    In front of the computer - Naked
    Has it's ups and downs Trassk - but all in all - still my FAV mmo ever.


  19. #19
    Over 9000! Shampro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    The Crucible
    Where do people get this notion that Blizzard only cares and only works on one of their projects? Do I need to link one of the recent interviews with Game director Tom chilton where he says the Warcraft team is basicly largest than it has been? Just because you think the game isnt fun anymore doesnt give you a reason to think anything they do is completely meaningless to the whole playerbase, If you think its stale and cant find any other MMORPG, Quit mmo's because this may be my opinion but I dont think anything comes close to WoW really, but yeah. You eaither like the game or you dont period.

    Also where do you get this ''it started in Wrath?'' Is that when you started? This game has and will always be grind/obtain > big bad boss > obtain loot. ALWAYS.Which is also how basicly all mmorpgs that have a solid PVE structure work. If you dont enjoy it, like I said, you eaither quit or you quit, theres nothing more to say.

    interview :
    Last edited by Shampro; 2013-04-03 at 05:43 PM.

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Washington, USA
    I'll never understand why people expect WoW to suddenly be different every expansion.

    When I picked up Twilight Princess, I expected it to follow the same formula as its predecessor, Wind Waker, and it did.
    When I picked up Metroid Prime 2, I expected it to play the same as Metroid Prime 1, and it did.
    When I picked up Pokemon White, I expected it to be an upgraded version of Pokemon Platinum, and it was.
    When I picked up Mists of Pandaria, I expected it to be like Cataclysm, and Wrath of the Lich King, and The Burning Crusade, and it was.

    Why do people expect something that's not WoW when they play WoW?

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