Swizzle's Crazy Mage Discussiorama!!

[Methusula]

How would that fit into a movement tier? If the Water Elemental was a talent in that tier, you'd be stupid not to take it. It would be a straight up dps increase. It just wouldn't work. I would be pretty pissed personally if I was FORCED to have a Water Elemental, even if I was Fire or Arcane.

Also, inb4 changing it to Arcane Familiar or Phoenix for the other specs.

[Boxedwaffle]

I really enjoy having the water ele. I just wish it could still proc FoF off of freeze (even if the target doesn't get frozen).

[Swizzle]

How would that fit into a movement tier? If the Water Elemental was a talent in that tier, you'd be stupid not to take it. It would be a straight up dps increase. It just wouldn't work. I would be pretty pissed personally if I was FORCED to have a Water Elemental, even if I was Fire or Arcane.

Also, inb4 changing it to Arcane Familiar or Phoenix for the other specs.

Thou must never speakest these words again!!!

[Methusula]

Thou must never speakest these words again!!!

Yeah, the whole reason I threw that last part in was to preemptively cut off that argument for the Water Elemental as a talent.

[zomgDPS]

I was wondering...considering that some Frost mages would prefer not having to use the Water Elemental and that it is a signature spell from Warcraft 3, what if it became a talent ( slightly reworked) in the grid that replaced Ice Floes?

I actually prefer the WC3 version, where you could have up to 3 up at a time, but they were temporary.


I would much prefer a version of Frost that has the elemental being something like that ^. I.e. a powerful summon, where you can have up to three if you keep casting, but not always up all the time getting all up in your junk.


I think the elemental is a crutch for the frost spec right now. It is quickly turning into the 'goto thing', the scapegoat that is used to either 'solve' or become the cause of all frost's problems, which is a bad sign imho.


Mages should cut the umbilical with this permanent pet of theirs.
If you want to play with permanent pets, come play a Warlock. I promise you, you will have a gooooood time.

[Alexand3r]

Woah hold your horses, it was only an idea D:
@Methusula Well I think it would still be possible if its damage was adjusted properly but oh well, nevermind.

@ZomgDPS I prefer the WC3 version too and I agree with you about the elemental being a crutch for the frost spec.
I personally do not want mages to have pets, I was only suggesting to make it a talent so that Frost mages aren't forced to use it.

By the way, I saw your post in the other thread regarding some of our old spells.
I really like your Mana Barrier idea and I miss Blast Wave.

Some time ago I came up with some ideas to improve arcane mages on Longwriter's talent grid tool here: http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...&gridId=372001

Maybe Arcane Mages could get a shield that absorbs damage based on the number of Arcane Charges they have?
I also came up with what Telekinesis could look like (inspired by the spell in DotA)

Telekinesis:

3.0% of base mana. 30 yd range.

Instant. 30 sec. cooldown.

You lift the enemy into the air for 5 seconds. During that time, you are able to hurl the target to anywhere on the ground (or in any direction) within 20 yards. If no action is performed, the target will fall to the ground below him.

They could just give us a Force Push spell too if they do not want to bring the old Blast Wave back.


I just wish Arcane had more spells :/ Especially ones that interact with Arcane Charges and mana (mana bolt, mana bomb like Anzu in Sethekk halls, etc.)
I also wish they made Frostfire bolt worth casting for Arcane and maybe add something Arcanefire/Arcanefrost

Oh and I saw in the other post that Invisibility was like stealth in vanilla beta. Maybe they could add it back as a glyph, talent or as a passive ability for only Arcane Mages? (Could give birth to the concept of an Arcane Assassin. The sound of it makes me feel all fuzzy inside)

[Eschatonin]

I actually prefer the WC3 version, where you could have up to 3 up at a time, but they were temporary.

What if Frost's mastery involved being able to proc additional temporary Water Elementals? (No Freeze, just copied the actions of the original Water Ele and it's use of Water Bolt)
Could even make it more interesting and give them a buff when a maximum number is reached and an extra water ele summon would usually proc.

Thinking again, I don't know what that would do for PvP.

[Deleted]

I could be better as a CD or a 4-p bonus ...

On raid 25 full mage,
"Garroch began to drown under all the water elemental ..."

[Deleted]

People cried as it was a cd.
Now people cry as it is permanent.
The way it works now is the best and easiest to balance in both PVE and PVP. So i dont think that they will revert that anytime soon.
I think we will see some interaction between mage and elemental in 6.0 (as we get our revamp *crossed fingers*).
But i dont think something like "Cast more elementals or a cd or something".

[Deleted]

People cried as it was a cd.
Now people cry as it is permanent.
The way it works now is the best and easiest to balance in both PVE and PVP. So i dont think that they will revert that anytime soon.
I think we will see some interaction between mage and elemental in 6.0 (as we get our revamp *crossed fingers*).
But i dont think something like "Cast more elementals or a cd or something".

more temporary water elem won't be a CD, it's just a copy of hunter's one. As a 4p bonus, it could be fun

[Hasufer]

@Boxed

I really enjoy having the water ele. I just wish it could still proc FoF off of freeze (even if the target doesn't get frozen).

Still possible on several fights at least, due to adds

@ Alexander

what if it became a talent ( slightly reworked) in the grid that replaced Ice Floes?

Why would u ever replace Ice Floes, it's freaking epic for frost, aloving like 100% dps to continue up to 5 sec of movement (nt/lb refresh) 2x fb 2-3 secs, up to 3 procs to fire + possibility for ekstra procs off the fb's used in ice floes.
Remove something else if anything at all ;p

[Deleted]

more temporary water elem won't be a CD, it's just a copy of hunter's one. As a 4p bonus, it could be fun

Hunter have 2 ways to summon extra pets:
One is a talent on a 30 sec cd which u have to activate.
The other is a 5min cd which u have to activate.
I dont think more actions really help the class.
If u make it passive aka something like "If u cast FB u have a x% chance to summon a small waterelemental for y sec which cast Tiny Waterbilt for z Dmg" u could also write "Your FB hits for z*x% more dmg".
The result is the same. The mechanic is lame.
IMO the problem is not the dmg or the number of our companions, nor their "duration". The biggest problem imo is that its static. He is like a shadow. He allways follows you but never interacts.
If the Welly for example has a 3min CD and a duration of 30 sec, all i would do is bind it to the IcyVeinsmacro. But instead for looking and adapting my play and rotation like i do when icy veins is up i just would forget about the welly.
Its like the mirror images are today. Yes they are cool. But on the other side they are lame mechanicwise.
I want some interaction with the welly. Atleast give Frostnova-FoF back. Or waterjet. Or whatever.

[Deleted]

@tomathan: I'm more ironic than any things.
the only way I found to make something cool with a temporary Water Elem is as a 4-pieces bonus.

But yes, they really need to add some interactivity with it.

[Kenbud]

I don't understand why Waterjet never made it in. It would just be a small 1 min or 45 second CD for a couple of FoF procs that wouldn't even need balancing for pvp because it would require hard casting Frostbolts, which isnt that what GC has been saying "Mages casting in pvp is a good thing" and "there are too many instants". Give us incentives to cast in pvp (new mastery isn't helping) and give us more interaction in pve with this thing that just mindlessly follows us.

[Deleted]

It's difficult to tell why it never made it to live. Blizzard never told an explanation, only stating that they don't like it actually and they will rework on something.

Possible reason (I only list):
too difficult to time correctly on raid fight
add another short CD on a spec that already have many
cast-time + channel wasn't good
in contradiction with the 4p-T15 design
...

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I only make the list ...

[Zatetic]

I like the mastery change that is in the latest build.

x% of your damaging abilities is converted into an ice crystal. every time you cast ice lance all ice crystals are launched at target. maximum 5 crystals.

without simming or anything it looks like if you dont get an FoF proc within 5 spells, casting a normal Ice Lance is mandatory. This makes frost slightly more complex to play as you have to real time track your casting. It shouldnt change stat priorities or anything. It'll be good.

also ice lance got a base damage buff of 100+10% sp approx. which is considerable.

[Zavri]

Ice lance didn't really get "buffed" though, the removal of the current mastery + the "buff" is still a net dps loss vs live.

[Saegno]

I don't give a damn how buggy it was, I want flame orb back .

[Pyromelter]

I don't give a damn how buggy it was, I want flame orb back .

Seeing as how Frost Orb is in the game, it seems really odd and out of place that they didn't keep flame orb. Orbs are cool. Plus they are only buggy with bosses that have ledges.

I wouldn't mind the L75 tier replaced with an Orb tier. Or with something like what the priest L90 talents have (cascade v. halo v. divine star).

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What's the deal with phoenix pet anyway?

What phoenix pet are you referring to?

[Imnick]

Frost Orb has an effect on Frost's rotation besides "does some damage when cast"
Flame Orb didn't, and in fact before it was fixed to not proc ignite actually actively lowered the damage your ignite did