Raid Finder and its ridiculous drop rate

[Attackrabbit]

I think you're missing the big one; the ability (or desire) to raid on-schedule. Having to play a certain game at a certain time on a certain day can be a turnoff for some people, y'know. In some cases, it's outright impossible. I had to stop raiding with my guild because something more important came up which occupied me from 6-9pm every Wednesday. Not much I can do about that.

I'm sure there are some guilds out there who don't only raid between 6 and 9 pm on a Wednesday.....

[Darsithis]

I'm sure there are some guilds out there who don't only raid between 6 and 9 pm on a Wednesday.....

That doesn't mean there are any that are convenient for him/her that accept the role he desires (that he can play), class, spec, or progress/skill level. I had to quit raiding when my partner and I moved to out to the burbs because I was getting up at 5:30 in the morning and could no longer stay up till midnight to raid 3 nights a week.

[Eats Compost]

I'm sure there are some guilds out there who don't only raid between 6 and 9 pm on a Wednesday.....

Jumping ship from a guild containing plenty of good friends of mine is problematic in itself. That's just the beginning, too; even ignoring that, it can be difficult to find a guild with a fitting raiding schedule that actually has open positions, is decent and isn't full of wankers.

[Otimus]

Tired of being able to stand there, face roll your keyboard, and get a small chance at 500+ ilvl equipment? Well then get a real guild that can clear normals, and preferably heroics. Put some effort into raiding and you will get gear much faster AND it will be much higher ilvl.

LFR is only there for people that can't raid normally due to skill level and/or time. There's plenty of guilds out there that raid at different times and different amounts, I really don't see time as an excuse as long as you are willing to server transfer.

It usually comes down to skill level or the person just being too lazy to find a decent guild. If it's skill level, then research and practice. Stop expecting free stuff and play better. If it's just sheer laziness then nothing can be done and I have no pity for these people that want free stuff handed to them.

I hate this attitude. I'm very much capable of doing normal or better raiding, but I just don't want to deal with the social aspects of it, and I really hate this whole "LFR is you just standing there and doing nothing" attitude. That is painfully not true, and a gross exaggeration, and only serves to make one seem a bit elitist.

I also don't want "free loot". I don't think ANYONE really wants "free loot" here. Hell, I think things are fine the way they are!

But I will say, there has to be a reason why LFR is immensely more popular than normal raiding, and why raiding has never really been all that popular in the history of the game. You can't entirely chalk it up to skill or "laziness" or whatever.

[laplacedemon]

Jumping ship from a guild containing plenty of good friends of mine is problematic in itself. That's just the beginning, too; even ignoring that, it can be difficult to find a guild with a fitting raiding schedule that actually has open positions, is decent and isn't full of wankers.

Isn't that one of the reasons why normal raiding has more/guaranteed drops though?

10+/25+ people opening a few hours on their schedules, get prepared, get flasks/food, reforges, gems, enchants and w/e else they need to raid get drops (if they can kill the boss), which they can use on harder challenges, while someone who doesn't (or can't) bother with all that gets to see content and has a chance to get some gear, which is useful on getting the necessary ilvl for the next LFR. From my point of view, it has to have some drawbacks so it doesn't obliterate the casual/normal mode raiding guilds. I don't think ilvl is good enough for that, I mean; I do LFR on my alts, but I don't cap VP even if VP gear (which is even more "free loot" than LFR actually, I don't understand why people act like it doesn't exist) is same as normal mode loot.

But I will say, there has to be a reason why LFR is immensely more popular than normal raiding, and why raiding has never really been all that popular in the history of the game. You can't entirely chalk it up to skill or "laziness" or whatever.

I would say accessibility + skill + laziness + willpower among other things.

For LFR, all you have to do is queue. For raiding, even with a casual guild, you still have to spend time (at a pre-determined time even), you still have to find a guild with members on your wavelength, you still have to be playing somewhat well and you still have to be having fun. Not many people are interested in all that and as someone who's done heroic raiding and casual raiding, I can perfectly understand that. Even one person in your guild might put you off raiding and you might not want to deal with finding another guild, which isn't an easy thing; not in hardcore brackets, nor in casual ones.

I have some friends who have absolutely no interest in raiding (even LFR). WoW has countless other things they find fun...

[Gnarles Malarkey]

Not much but air must've come out if your mind can't comprehend that people are upset when a perfectly fine and convenient and superior method of catching up to current content was replaced with a terrible one.

Cause, from where I sit it's 1+1=2. You take away something good, replace it with something shitty, and people will complain.

We're not talking about catching up or how much you love end-of-expansion free-epic-dungeons. We're talking about current-content LFR droprates, which are more than fine inside the scope of a six-month tier.

OP is just mad that he didn't swap out every piece of 489 Valor gear in the first three weeks of LFR raiding.

[Booniehat]

One thing I hate (and its saddening to see a Moderator doing) is people who keep jumping from one extreme to another, strawmanning the argument for god knows what reason.

Player A: The drop rates are too low.

Hardcore raiders: WAHH YOU BABY, YOU WANT GUARANTEED EPICS??? BACK IN MY DAY etc etc etc.

When did anyone say, "yo I want epics every Boss."

When people like you immediately strawman the OP (or anyone else who disagrees with you)'s point, you just come off looking like snobs who think they're somehow entitled to make comments while everyone else isn't. Kinda like how in the PVPtrollforums apparently anyone under 2200 is a scrub and has no worthy thing to say. Why do you guys perpetuate such behaviour and wonder why the community has gone to shit?

Looked through 11 pages of this thread and I don't see any "entitled casual" asking for full 502 gear in one run. His point is that it's too low. Not that he wants epics immediately. You can disagree, you can agree, but don't misrepresent his statement.

And again - these guys are AT WORST, asking for gear twenty to forty levels below yours. That's what, 50K DPS? 100K DPS lower? But... that's somehow intolerable, apparently.

[MoanaLisa]

In normal raids, it's more controlled. A set amount of items will drop, and the raid decides precisely who gets which one. The only chance involved regards getting certain items from the item pool to drop, but because you've got guaranteed drops (and several of them, at that) for every kill, you're much more likely to come across at least one instance of any given item, and the raid can distribute that where needed.

All well in good and correct as far as it goes. But after a while, most of the drops are duplicates of things that are no longer needed.

The community--such as it is--had their chance to do the roll thing with DS and it was pretty much a catastrophe. The new system is much better and there's a decent argument to be made that due to LFR being easier with generally fewer wipes all around, things balance out. I'm not sure I even want LFR to gear you up faster than normal raiding does anyway but that's an arguable proposition about which reasonable people can have different points of view. Unfortunately, most of the complaining about LFR drop rates seems to come down to something like "I want my LFR gear now and it's ridiculous that it takes weeks to get it". That's a point of view for which I have no sympathy whatsoever. It's supposed to take time and RNG is inherent in all raiding loot systems to one degree or another.

I don't really see what the hurry is to get gear out of LFR in any case. If you were to use it for normal raiding, you should be just doing normal raiding instead. If you're not planning on doing normal raiding there's no reason to rush. In any case, it's all pretty subjective and simply complaining about it isn't really very useful.

[Vaelorian]

You know why? Because we were going to be there next week, upgrades or no upgrades, because we were there for the raid and the absolute joy of raiding. Truly something I wish more players would get a chance to experience.

Well that is true... FOR A GUILD. Now I am really far removed from agreeing with the OP. But you cannot deny that LFR isn't a place where you "raid" in the same "fun" way that you did with your guild. It is a game of "everyone for himself" and as such people want loot. They (most) are not there to have fun raiding. They are there to upgrade themselves in the most efficient manner in the game = LFR.

I mean I agree that you "should" play this game for other ideals, but this is a BIG reason for people to do LFR. That and it is a good reason to do LFR. I would guess that if people who normally only play LFR for loot, would quit, the queue times would be horrendous = you cannot raid LFR anymore.

[Coldhearth]

The amount of crying over loot since LFR came out is absolutely hilarious.

Real raiders know you spend weeks, maybe even months, before you get the drop you want. And that isn't fighting loot pinata bosses. You spend time learning fights, and then maybe you get lucky with a drop.

Real raiders also know the game isn't about loot. It's about having fun. The gear is just a means to an end.

I was fine w/ LFD but I honestly think LFR was a huge mistake.

[aggs]

Well this thread isn't about "real raiding" it is about LFR so I don't get why you find it funny. I am pretty sure lfr was put in place for people to experience the content that normally wouldn't have the chance, and that is why I am a little surprised to see any real gripe when it comes to drops. If things drop they drop if not, at least you still got to see some content you otherwise might not have got to.

[synaeris]

Try playing a holy paladin for a change. You won't get any loot. Nowhere. Ever.

Well, in DF/LFR, that is.

[Deleted]

The amount of crying over loot since LFR came out is absolutely hilarious.

Real raiders know you spend weeks, maybe even months, before you get the drop you want. And that isn't fighting loot pinata bosses. You spend time learning fights, and then maybe you get lucky with a drop.

Real raiders also know the game isn't about loot. It's about having fun. The gear is just a means to an end.

I was fine w/ LFD but I honestly think LFR was a huge mistake.

I disagree.

In "real raids" as you put it gear does not come slowly. I have been in many runs in the past where certain items always seem to drop often because of the disparity of individual item drop rates.

My DK upon joining a 10 man raid got showered with epics to save them from shardage. The point is raids get loot every time.

Real raiders also know the game is all about gear, they rarely take anyone undergeared as they know that between dps timers and healing throughput it makes the difference between a kill and a wipe.

Personally my schedule doesn't allow me to raid as I do martial arts clases most evenings so LFR and PvP are my way of enjoying the game because I can do it around them without having to clear an entire evening.

The drop rates suck and while personal loot is a good idea it was so much faster to gear up in DS where loot always dropped.

[ripponesan]

Even if we are beating a dead horse, it cant get any more dead, so lets do it.

I really dont know with which side i sympathise more.
Seeing that it is easier than ever to gear yourself i dont really have a feeling of company for those who whine about getting no loot.
On the other hand it is the whole system that stinks.
And saying that you need to expierience a stinking system because we did as well isnt a very modern way of thinking as well.

It´s not that i can come up with a solution, but still why do we blindly and willingly accept this artificial prolonging of content through gear gating?

[Pua]

Tired of being able to stand there, face roll your keyboard, and get a small chance at 500+ ilvl equipment? Well then get a real guild that can clear normals, and preferably heroics. Put some effort into raiding and you will get gear much faster AND it will be much higher ilvl.

LFR is only there for people that can't raid normally due to skill level and/or time. There's plenty of guilds out there that raid at different times and different amounts, I really don't see time as an excuse as long as you are willing to server transfer.

It usually comes down to skill level or the person just being too lazy to find a decent guild. If it's skill level, then research and practice. Stop expecting free stuff and play better. If it's just sheer laziness then nothing can be done and I have no pity for these people that want free stuff handed to them.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, you want to play in a decent guild. Undoubtedly, they'll have a gear requirement of some sort that you don't yet meet; how are you supposed to meet it?

Previously in WotLK, there were five-man dungeons and PuG-friendly raids that could help you get over a gearing hump.

Now, you're stuck with LFR and a terrible drop rate.

This example is potentially more common than we realise (or less common, of course) and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with skill and/or laziness. Painting the issue solely into those two camps is grossly misrepresenting the topic.

[Tekkommo]

To be fair, people have always complained about loot drops, especially raiders. It usually stayed in party chat or class/role channel.

With LFR, it just brings the whining to the majority of the player base and creates these pointless threads.

[Luko]

Try playing a holy paladin for a change. You won't get any loot. Nowhere. Ever.

Well, in DF/LFR, that is.

I don't see how it's effected? My girlfriend's holy paladin hit 90 3 weeks ago and is healing through ToT LFR's now. The drops rates are insane for the first 3 raids, now and the rarity of item type (Healing plate) has nothing to do with whether or not you get a drop, now.

[timtim89]

do you think the 10 and 25 man versions are any better than the LFR right now?

[HardCoder]

Now, you're stuck with LFR and a terrible drop rate.

15% chance of an item you can use is pretty close to what you would get from a 25M normal or heroic. Maybe a little lower, and definitely lower if you're with a group that has farmed the content a while and is willing to pass items to you. But 15% is about what a "fresh" tier is like for normal and heroic raiders.

[tawney]

1 thing I hate is not the drop rate but seeing the same dame item drop if loot actually does drop. I've so far seen 6 sha axes, 3 belts off another boss, 2 rings and nothing hardly else. It really sucks when you do actually get a drop and it's the exact same thing you've seen so many times. I know QQ but it sucks.