So with the PTR 5.3 PvP Power changes humans become even more OP for PVP.

[ducklino]

Blood furry + pvp use trinket while casting deepfreeze = GG
Aoe silence on a priest to prevent life swap = GG
wotf a fear to cast a big fat heal on your parther that is about to die = GG
Vanish as a feral or if you're a healer Shadowmeld to drink = GG
1~2% more dps on a pvp fight with CC's and peeels = LoL

Pvp is all about Big Fat Burts in a small window, but noobs think when they pvp, the enemy is raid boss that stand still doing nothing so they gotta roll human to get some 1~2% extra dps so they can top meters.

Hmmm I wonder why this is?

Orc racial is just as if not more OP, underlooked by the noobs, and well-noticed by the pros.

You said everything, thats what we are seeing here.

[Torais]

Blood furry + pvp use trinket while casting deepfreeze = GG
Aoe silence on a priest to prevent life swap = GG
wotf a fear to cast a big fat heal on your parther that is about to die = GG
Vanish as a feral or if you're a healer Shadowmeld to drink = GG
1~2% more dps on a pvp fight with CC's and peeels = LoL


You said everything, thats what we are seeing here.

While each of the skills you listed are useful in the highly situational scenario you listed, they are just that. Highly situational.

While I have no problem with them being that, I do take issue with one particular racial giving people a free trinket slot all the time. With how valuable PvP stats will be next patch and with that free slot even getting more valuable (which to be fair was pretty damn OP even before), there seems to be little reason why it continues to go unchecked.

[ducklino]

While each of the skills you listed are useful in the highly situational scenario you listed, they are just that. Highly situational.[/I].

Theres a reason top players pick then instead some tiny dps boost. Because they know pvp isn't a raid fight that you stand still doing a pve dps rotation while not cc'ing the enemy healer before landing a kill or or peeling your healer so he doesn't die.

free trinket slot all the time..

Free trinket? Are you serious? are we talking about rated pvp? because medallion of the horde has stats on it last time i check.
maybe you're talking about low lvl pvp?

[Nicola]

Theres a reason top players pick then stead some tiny dps boost. Because they know pvp isn't a raid fight that you stand still doing a pve dps rotation while not cc'ing or peeling the enemy healer.

Really, they don't roll a different class because the racial offers a minor dmg increase, it's all about the utility. They roll orc for the 15% stun reduction, blood fury is just a small bonus to that.

[Baracuda]

Blood furry + pvp use trinket while casting deepfreeze = GG
Aoe silence on a priest to prevent life swap = GG
wotf a fear to cast a big fat heal on your parther that is about to die = GG
Vanish as a feral or if you're a healer Shadowmeld to drink = GG
1~2% more dps on a pvp fight with CC's and peeels = LoL

Pvp is all about Big Fat Burts in a small window, but noobs think when they pvp, the enemy is raid boss that stand still doing nothing so they gotta roll human to get some 1~2% extra dps so they can top meters.


You said everything, thats what we are seeing here.

You forgot that humans instead get a trinket with half the CD of blood fury and double the damage.

[Deleted]

They're also increasing battle fatigue from 30% to 50% healing/absorb reduction.

Lets take a 100k heal before battle fatigue and pvp power, with the person having 50% pvp power (hybrid)

Currently that 100k heal (with 30% battle fatigue)would be calculated as: (100*0.7)*(50*0.25)=78.75

In 5.3 (with 50% battle fatigue) that 100k would be calculated as: (100*0.5)*(50*0.75)=68.75
Even with 60% pvp power, you'll end up healing more in 5.2 than in 5.3.

So in 5.3 hybrid healing would be less than it is now.

This is of course if my calculations are right. My math skills aren't that great

Pretty sure both PvP power for dmg and healing are calculated first and then reduced by defense/fatigue.

[Deleted]

just remove them and have some random vanity stuff as racials.

[Nicola]

Pretty sure both PvP power for dmg and healing are calculated first and then reduced by defense/fatigue.

All those numbers are multiplicative so it doesn't matter which one you calculate. (A * B) * C is the same as A * (B * C)

[Deleted]

All those numbers are multiplicative so it doesn't matter which one you calculate. (A * B) * C is the same as A * (B * C)

Actually it does. 50% of 50.000 is less than 50% of 100.0000.

[George Costanza]

25%stun duration reduction <3

[Nicola]

Actually it does. 50% of 50.000 is less than 50% of 100.0000.

Yes, that is obvious, but you are missing the point.
100k heal with 50% battle fatigue, 60% power and 75% PvP power benefit...

If calculating battle fatigue first:
100k * 50% = 50k
Increase from PvP power:
60% * 75% = 45%
50k * 145% = 72.5k

If calculating increase from PvP power first
60% * 75% = 45%
100k * 145% = 145k
Decrease from battle fatigue:
145k * 50% = 72.5k

Taadaa, same result.

[Mican17]

Hmm let me see, mages could solo pretty much anyone from 80-0 in a single deep with a shatter + bomb combo. The stun reduction allowed you to get out of the deep before the bomb landed.
In cases you didn't get out of the deep in time and the bomb landed, stuff like this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZknKn0nJd4Q&t=26m0s

It's ludicrous to think that deep freeze is the reason for orcs' popularity in high-rated pvp (even today) given the amount of stuns in this game. You have provided no evidence for this claim.

[Faroth]

One of the things I miss about EverQuest was the feeling that you weren't playing an arcade game, you were stepping into the role of a character in another world. Part of that was built around the developers embracing the fact that LIFE AIN'T FAIR and players just had to find ways to suck it up and work around it rather than whining about every character needing to be perfectly identical.

I've always said if you want a race in a fantasy world to be the most populated, as lore states, give them kick ass racials. Otherwise you get the "nearly decimated, almost wiped out blood elves" consisting of 80% of the world's population.

That said, "every man for himself" is kind of a meh racial from a lore standpoint and I do actually support PvP being adjusted so things are fairly equal. For example, if you spread out resists as racials, I'm okay with the variation yet similarity. NEs have nature resist, dwarves cold resist, humans could have an arcane resist, and so on with equal set up in the Horde.

More realistically, though, I expect Blizzard to remove all racials from the game and replace them with cosmetic based or optional racial abilities. And the blood elf population, or its new equivalent, can be another "barely clinging to survival" race comprising 80% of the world population.

[Nicola]

It's ludicrous to think that deep freeze is the reason for orcs' popularity in high-rated pvp (even today) given the amount of stuns in this game. You have provided no evidence for this claim.

Honestly, if you feel like it's no evidence, go ahead and ask that question on AJ. Most people there will give you exactly the same answer.
As for stuns, there are stuns and there are stuns. What's the difference? Nothing, except that one class can and will blow you up in a single stun if you sit for the full duration. At that point, stun reduction is godly.

If really wanted a racial for burst, then I find the lack of trolls disturbingly low.

[Mican17]

Indeed, you ought to go to AJ and ask this question: Are frost mages the reason for why orcs have been and still are so popular among high rated players? Or is it stuns in general? I think we both know the answer to that.

[Nicola]

Indeed, you ought to go to AJ and ask this question: Are frost mages the reason for why orcs have been and still are so popular among high rated players? Or is it stuns in general? I think we both know the answer to that.

I know the answer, and I've said it multiple times already. Honestly, do you really think other multi glads (Yes, you are reading this correctly) are going to say something else?
Everyone went orc for the deep freeze as that was the only stun that was actually really dangerous. Now rogues are stupidly overpowered so there's a reason not to change race, but deep freeze is still the cause that so many pros are orc right now.

Feel free to believe whatever you want, but that's just how it is.

[Lulbalance]

I know the answer, and I've said it multiple times already. Honestly, do you really think other multi glads (Yes, you are reading this correctly) are going to say something else?
Everyone went orc for the deep freeze as that was the only stun that was actually really dangerous. Now rogues are stupidly overpowered so there's a reason not to change race, but deep freeze is still the cause that so many pros are orc right now.

Feel free to believe whatever you want, but that's just how it is.

people aren't going orc only to counter the [11% representation] mage's deeps, that's silly. most mages [sadly] are playing NT right now i've even seen venruki playing it more so the deep bomb argument is strange..not to say deep isnt still dangerous; but the risk of dying in one 100-0 isn't as present. stuns in general, sure maybe..but specifically deeps? comon now.

the racial thing is a combination of Hardness and Blood Fury. those two make that a really attractive race for dps classes..just a really good alternative considering the game state.

and do i keep missing the posts where you put up your multi-glad armory?! sorry if i do... i forget which threads i post in ^^.

ps - you dont see trolls as much because the # of instant cast high damage spells is retarded atm. Orc is still that much better even without Hardness.

[Nicola]

Hmm, I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about the 5.0/5.1 frost mages that obliterated players with frost bomb.

Pick a lock

[Baracuda]

You know there's like what... 13 races? If 1 race has a stronger racial than most then it's not suddenly fair just because another race also has a strong racial, most races still get left out. There's also the other argument: there are 2 factions. It's debatable which racial is the strongest among all races, but in the Alliance? No contest! How many high rated non-humans you do see in the Alliance, excluding shamans/druids? Not many. When was the last time you saw a dwarf rogue(not a newb)?

When you say everyone, not just other hordes, went Orc for their racial then obviously there's a problem! The thread is correct that the human racial will becomer stronger next patch, that's not less true just become some other racials remain strong. Racials won't let a bad player beat a good player but when you're reaching for the top in PvE/PvP and racials are a part of your min/max spreadsheet, then something's wrong.

[Miko]

Hmmm I wonder why this is?

Orc racial is just as if not more OP, underlooked by the noobs, and well-noticed by the pros.

Not at all, the "pros" 100% set up ALL of the kills they do, a player that may be a noob or a 1800 player knows that the extra dmg gives him the push he needs to kill someone in half ass set up. Either way both racial abilities are strong with Human racial abilities becoming stronger and stronger each season. You can take 50 "pros' using Orcs, that still doesn't make the 4million or whatever 1800 players wrong in the choice they make. If something is OP its OP doesn't have to be just OP for top end elite play.