GC, ToC was awesome! Where are you getting this data?

[Viradiance]

Loved the fights of TOC and TOGC, got bored of the atmosphered and doing it four times a week per character.

[Garnier Fructis]

Faction Champions was fun, except for the part where 75% of the raid couldn't figure out how to play.

[Binary Speaker]

It basically being the first raid I did in game means it has a special place in my heart. Some of the fights were fun and I kinda liked the whole concept of "here we will test your might before you go and raid the ice cream citadel!" What really killed it for me was the armor sets. They all looked alike depending on WHAT is was. I.E mage gears and lock gears looked similar. Also The Facebreaker was a thing. It made me want to go Enh on my main =D

[Duridi]

Actually, this is the first time I have ever heard of anyone liking ToC.

[thesmall001]

That was me that Tweeted that! I loved ToC but GC is right and the data shows that empyrically... ToC was unpopular for a handful of reasons. Personally I loved the fights and the theme and the way gear was handled and the Profession drops and the daily area and everything about that patch except for how soon it came out! I still didn't have Firefighter 25 or Algalon but we were damn close. Then ToC trivialized it.

For what it was, a filler raid that took very little time or effort to make so that we could get a better ICC without going mad from no content, it was a good enough job and I have a very soft spot for it largely for sentimental reasons but from a design review as well.

[Wolfster]

ToC was garbage. The instance itself just looked like shit, all the models for the ToC gear were also horrible. It was absolutely pathetic after Ulduar.

yup, the first thing i judge an encounter on is the gear looks that the boss drops, i totally ignore the mechanics and everything else /sarcasm

anyway to me ToC would be rated one of the most enjoyable raids, and i didnt have a problem doing it 4 times on my main, 3 times on my tank alt and 2 times on my healer per week, oh and also to me Ulduar was dreadfully annoying, long and i just couldn't bare raid nights at that time, by far my worst experience as a raid was in ulduar

Faction Champions was fun, except for the part where 75% of the raid couldn't figure out how to play.

figures why most people would hate ToC since either they are retarded and cant think for themselves, or they had to put up with a lot of ppl like that

[Mirishka]

I liked most of the TOC bosses, myself, but would have liked to see more of a true raid. 1 or 2 fights in the coliseum, sure, but then Arthas shatters the floor and you fall into a sprawling Azjol-Nerub type area where you fight the rest, culminating in Anub.

As for the gear, yeah, some of it was awful. I did like the plate sets, though, and some of the horde weapons were badass.

[McNeil]

From what I remember, ToC was never supposed to be a raid, just a 5-man dungeon. The raid for that patch was supposed to be Azjol-Nerub, but got scrapped, and instead we got ToC as a raid. Also explains why there's some Azjol-Nerub stuff in ToC, and Why Anub'arak is the final boss (who was supposed to be the final boss in AN).

We probably should be happy we got a raid at all in that patch. In Cata, they just decided to remove the raid concept for one major patch completely

[Armourboy]

I'm 99% certain you're exaggerating. I haven't met a single person who truly enjoyed ToC.

As someone above me said, the bosses were interesting, but Anub Arak was the only "challenge".

As a tier, it was horrendous.

Now you've met one.
That said though I know most people didn't care for it as it was the first tier where we started having issues with getting people to go.

[Deleted]

I liked ToC for 2 reasons:
1: I dislike trash to be honest so ToC was awesome that you got to fight boss after boss. Only downside was there wasn't enough bosses.
2: I was able to run it twice every week because 10 and 25 were separate lockouts.

However, the raid itself (look and tier gear) were pretty bad.

agree. But I liked the weapon art in that tier

[wariofan1]

ToC is my second most hated raid, only next to Dragon Soul.

Where does he get the data? Well, on their official forums in patch 3.2 everyone and their grandma had made a "ToC sucks" thread.

Some encounters were cool, but for the most part it sucked. Jaraxxus was hilarious though, but for the wrong reasons, his encounter was very standard, but his voice always made me crack up for some reason.

[Thage]

Where is he getting this data? Well maybe he is getting it from the countless complaints on the forums and throughout the community that was only saying how much ToC sucks. Everyone hated this thing.

This. The o-boards and MMO-Champion where full of threads bashing TOC for reusing the Trial of the Champion environment, the fact that tier sets looked the same across classes for the sake of differing by faction, the fact that most of the raid was only one arena, and the boss mechanics being less complex than Ulduar's, and other reasons all caused a huge outcry on the forums for what was basically a filler raid to give Blizz more time to work on ICC.

[Sevyvia]

EVERYONE I know and knew back then HATED ToC with fiery passion. They STILL do. It was an abomination and if you like it you are fucking weird.

[Kojo]

Ah what a funny thread. "Where does he get his data?" lol

[TEHPALLYTANK]

yup, the first thing i judge an encounter on is the gear looks that the boss drops, i totally ignore the mechanics and everything else

That is actually a huge part of how much I like a tier. If the instance makes me think of office buildings and cubicles then there is a big problem with the art. Not just the art of the gear, but the art of the instance. It was grey and brown, I can't think of two better colors to bore people with. I am a highly visual person, it has to look good for me to enjoy it when it comes to raiding.

[Creotor]

I enjoyed it, although it didn't quite feel like a proper raid. Bosses were just bosses, but the lack of trash was pretty cool. I don't really consider item design to be part of the actual raid so that doesn't affect my opinion.

[jamlol]

ToC blew so hard, my least favorite instance ever. Going for Immortality was one of the most frustrating raid achieves....

[Dangg]

Pro
- No trash

Con
- Attempt system
- 4 lockouts
- Gated
- Lame bosses compared to Ulduar
- The arena looked like it was designed in 1 hour. If you make a raid w/o trash give us different rooms and design them better.
- Gear design

[Lucetia]

After reading the new blue notes, I ran across this and it just pissed me off to be honest:
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-ToC was awesome because it stood on the integrity of it's encounter design. It was a minimalist approach that worked.
I thought the encounters were well crafted. Overall the raid was not popular though. New art and architecture are important
-Faction Champs was still one of the coolest encounters I've ever done though.
I liked it personally, but it was less popular with players not used to dealing with no aggro, interrupts, CC and the like.
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GC, may I ask where you are getting your data from? I and practically every person I have ever spoken with, whether it be in-game, IRL friends, forums etc LOVED ToC, especially ToGC! The idea of being in a coliseum with your Faction Leader staring down upon you to engage in a no-trash, head on bout is, tbh, flipping awesome! Than to be able to do hard modes? WHAT?! dude. shit was baller status.

So, community, did you like ToC, did you not like it? Who was your favorite boss? I don't usually post threads about pointing a finger at GC whom I highly respect, but I couldn't let that post go, it made me pound my desk and my goldfish got scared : /

See...most of us would believe your data is incorrect. I know practically everyone on my realm that I have spoken with, threads I've read have always ranked ToC/ToGC one of the lowest raids in terms of favorability. I personally hated it. Being in the same room for an entire instance was just meh, even though we went to a different room at the end it was still the same thing.

[Joshdatroll]

There are two reasons that I hate ToGC, and three that I love it.

1. Faction Champs. This was the most frustrating fight that I've ever played. This was on par with M'uru.
2. Beasts. I raided the first part of ToGC with a guild that wasn't exactly... good. This fight was akin to slamming my head against a cinderblock wall for 12 hours a week until gear wasn't a factor anymore. It was awful.
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1. Lord Jarraxus was a really cool fight lore-wise. 'Nuff said.
2. Twins was a REALLY cool fight, mechanics wise. It was kind of basic in concept, but execution was organized chaos and I lahved it.
3. Anub in ToGC was just a really rewarding fight to down. One of my fondest memories in all of WoW was my guild's first Trib to Insanity. The baited silence the last 20% of Anub, followed by the nerd screaming... it was just... Man.