Garrosh - Why the horde and WoW needed him.

[Eats Compost]

You know what the problem is with everything that has happened since cataclysm? This entire war scenario has become so completely forced and contrived it no longer feels genuine. Before cataclysm, there was ALWAYS the tension between horde and alliance, it never went away, despite what you try and claim, it was always there. It was just done is a far more subtle, believable way then what it is now.

You know the issue with full on warfair in a game like Wow where both factions are equal and opposite? Its that they will NEVER BEAT EACH OTHER IN ALL OUT WAR. They won't, its inconceivable to imagine it will ever happen. This is why this forced warfair mentality in wow now just degrades the story down so much.

It was more believeable when there was the mild tension between both sides before cataclysm. Where horde and alliance best friends before it? NO, if you played vanilla you would know there was always tension between both sides, and if horde and alliance meet on a battlefield or in opposing faction territory, they would fight, they were not friends, but the tone of it was far more subtle in a story where focusing on major problems in the world matters more then trying to satisfy a childish itch for pvping.

The whole thing with cataclysm? Deathwing has just shattered the world, thats a massive thing and the threat of him coming down and raining fire on everyone was there. But instead of focusing all attention to defeating deathwing and his forces, the horde and alliance decide to go to all out conflict with one another, waist resources and soldiers in killing one another, and generally being massive d**ks about it.

Its so conceived, all of this current story is so forced and the conflict is so ridiculous its like both sides have taken a step backwards, instead of growing wiser as factions they both end up looking like a group of obnoxious teenagers fighting a street war just because of someone wearing blue instead of red.

Conflict can be good, IF ITS DONE WELL, but none of this crap thats happened since cataclysm has been good for the story. What is so obvious is conclusion, how once Garrosh is gone, things will go back to as it was before cataclysm with the awkward tension and cold war mentality, and so it achieved nothing though these events except to either kill characters to screw over concepts that didn't need to be touched on.

I have to agree with the general point of what's said here; the conflict is so incredibly forced at the moment. It really doesn't help that EVERY single plot point that furthers the conflict just happens to be a significant lore character turning off their brain and massively hamfisting something. See: Thrall leaving Garrosh to the Horde, Jaina going full impulse mode in Dalaran, etc. This is all on top of it being plainly obvious that both sides lose infinitely more than they gain by being in open conflict, ESPECIALLY when there are blindingly obvious greater threats.

This whole war plot is silly and forced beyond belief.

[Deleted]

The part where he (thinks he) had Vol'jin assassinated, and occupied the Echo Isles. Also, everything in 5.3.

When someone commits insubordination, you punish him. Simple as that. How is it tyranny? Vol'jin has an authority issue.

[Airwaves]

Why would you even bother to respond to this obv...T post?

[Eats Compost]

When someone commits insubordination, you punish him. Simple as that. How is it tyranny? Vol'jin has an authority issue.

Vol'jin gave Garrosh a stern talking-to once. That's it. That isn't a good reason to assassinate someone, especially when they're the leader of an entire faction that you're allied with. Neither does it function as a reason to go ahead and occupy the Echo Isles.

Killing someone for speaking out (as far as Garrosh is concerned, that's exactly what he did) in private is nothing short of tyranny.

[Verdugo]

Vol'jin gave Garrosh a stern talking-to once.

He threatened him with assassination, how do you consider that stern talking-to is beyond me.

[Eats Compost]

He threatened him with assassination, how do you consider that stern talking-to is beyond me.

And he said he'd do it when people became aware of what Garrosh was; a tyrant-to-be and an inept leader. Garrosh ended up proving him right and crossing that very line by ordering his assassination and occupying Echo Isles.

Also, I'm yet to hear any justification for Echo Isles.

[darkminaz]

i hated thrall for beeing a wussi (srsly he got THA POWAAAAA and does he kill the bastard son of stormwind? NO !)
i hate garrosh for not killing the same person (srsly 1 hp left .. FINISH HIM .. EXECUTEEEE)

overall i don't realy see any of the "leaders" as great leader of a war.

Lets start with the basics
Jaina proudmoore: can teleport into the base of the horde without anything, yet doesn't kill garrosh in his sleep (not realy nice but then again he attacked her mage buddys and we all know mage > warrior (atleast in pvp :P) so boom)


Tauren: lol grass is greeen weeeeee ..
trolls: i like vol'jin but he is to nice, relax man and have a joint with the tauren buddys daz dingo maaaan
undead aka silvanas: i'm dead but still sexy! BEAT THAT BITCHES
goblins: who cares about the war? gimme money
b811: our leader is a guy that pretty mutch noone knows! but if you kill him you get a acievment! ..

Gnomes: i'm lvl 90 elite and i live with ugly dwarfes since i can't get a lvl 30 instance wyped out and rebuild ..
dwarfes: who want's a beer? screw the war! <3
humans aka varian: where is my son? that lvl 15 priest? WHO STOLE MY FUCKING SON WAAAA , let's not do something evil and slaughter some orcs .. nooo i like to walk around and search my lil brat
nightelfs: lets hug some trees or shit ..
aliens aka dranei: for the burning legion .. i mean let's be purple and blue and .. well .. meh
worgen aka dogfight: do we even have a leader? bark roar wuff wuff .. ah yeah the gentleman guy ..

someone who fights a war schould know basic warfare, how to hit em where it hurts. but that would mean one of the sides would die, aka end of warcraft aka no more money

[Verdugo]

If we're going down that route, that conversation starts with "DON'T TALK BACK TO ME, TROLL."

Sounds pretty dictator-ish.

Or his terrible accent makes his ears bleed.

[draconith1]

What tyrany exactly? I haven't seen any.

ok here are some examples.

-the eviction of non orc, non tauren races from central orgrimmar due to the belief that they are a weaker race,

- the killing of cairne bloodhoof, poison from Magatha aside, this was an unbelievably arrogant and despicable move.

- following up on that, the assassination attempt on vol'jin....do wise benevolent leaders generally try to assassinate wise generals? No, thats usually tyrants

- the appointment of malkorok as his personal bodyguard and the use of him to quiet dissent through intimidation, abduction, and murder.

- the abduction of the focusing iris, the murder of the blue dragon, and the use of the artifact to make a weapon of mass destruction that was then used to "scour theramore from the continent of kalmidor."

- Garrosh's aim of complete genocide of the alliance.

- Garrosh's proclamation that every man women and child is to assist in the war against the alliance, and anyone found shirking their duties will have to deal with his private police force the kor'kron

- the placement of martial law over the echo isles, effectively turning the troll homeland into an interment camp.

- the attempt to use the divine bell to empower warriors in a similar fashion to drinking demon blood.

edit:

Garrosh's belief that anyone who isn't an orc is an inferior in the horde. (nazi germany anyone?)



I think that pretty much sums it up. As seeing myself as an intelligent member of the horde I simply can not wait to bring justice to this war criminal.

[Pull My Finger]

Garrosh was good for the game because he served as an antagonist through which they were able to write interesting lore into the game. Times of conflict, upheavals, sacrifice and big changes, that was obviously healthy for the Warcraft lore, and is healthy for any lore every once in a while.

I can't relate to the whole "it heats the faction conflict up again" argument though. I look at the Warcraft universe as a whole. I happen to play Alliance, but I don't necessarily "side" with it. I'm interested in what happens on Azeroth (and beyond) overall, Alliance and Horde, it's all part of a story, I'm not over-identifying with one particular faction.

The whole idea of looking at one faction as "us" and being passionately against the other one is dumb and juvenile to me. It's even more dumb than referring to "us" when a national ball team wins a game against some other national ball team, or when a goverment decides to throw off some bombs over the territory of another.

[Deleted]

What have the rest of the Darkspear done...

They're filthy trolls. Reason enough for me.

[Deleted]

If we did this to every race that I dont like, Azeroth would be pretty empty.

Those "filthy" trolls are still innocents.

[Zaelsino]

We could have had all that with any leader, had they put a little more effort (as in, not pinning ALL sins and ALL atrocities on one faction and one or two of its leaders) into the war storyline. Thrall was just as proud of his orcish heritage and prone to chest-thumping as Garrosh, he just wasn't as stupid, racist, and needlessly belligerent.

[Deleted]

If we did this to every race that I dont like, Azeroth would be pretty empty.

Those "filthy" trolls are still innocents.

A little oppressing and slaughtering of innocents in a video game is a nice change of pace once in a while, don't you agree? It's a bonus if it's someone you don't like.

[Goretex]

You know what the problem is with everything that has happened since cataclysm? This entire war scenario has become so completely forced and contrived it no longer feels genuine. Before cataclysm, there was ALWAYS the tension between horde and alliance, it never went away, despite what you try and claim, it was always there. It was just done is a far more subtle, believable way then what it is now.

You know the issue with full on warfair in a game like Wow where both factions are equal and opposite? Its that they will NEVER BEAT EACH OTHER IN ALL OUT WAR. They won't, its inconceivable to imagine it will ever happen. This is why this forced warfair mentality in wow now just degrades the story down so much.

It was more believeable when there was the mild tension between both sides before cataclysm. Where horde and alliance best friends before it? NO, if you played vanilla you would know there was always tension between both sides, and if horde and alliance meet on a battlefield or in opposing faction territory, they would fight, they were not friends, but the tone of it was far more subtle in a story where focusing on major problems in the world matters more then trying to satisfy a childish itch for pvping.

The whole thing with cataclysm? Deathwing has just shattered the world, thats a massive thing and the threat of him coming down and raining fire on everyone was there. But instead of focusing all attention to defeating deathwing and his forces, the horde and alliance decide to go to all out conflict with one another, waist resources and soldiers in killing one another, and generally being massive d**ks about it.

Its so conceived, all of this current story is so forced and the conflict is so ridiculous its like both sides have taken a step backwards, instead of growing wiser as factions they both end up looking like a group of obnoxious teenagers fighting a street war just because of someone wearing blue instead of red.

Conflict can be good, IF ITS DONE WELL, but none of this crap thats happened since cataclysm has been good for the story. What is so obvious is conclusion, how once Garrosh is gone, things will go back to as it was before cataclysm with the awkward tension and cold war mentality, and so it achieved nothing though these events except to either kill characters to screw over concepts that didn't need to be touched on.

I disagree with you I think it makes the lore better forced or not. Alot of ppl were tired of lets hold hands fight the big bad guy. I agree with OP it brought back the "war" in WoW. My question would be why do you want things to be all peaceful and no conflict? It would be very boring. Lets try to fight 2 wars instead of one. one being the big bad guy and the other, the faction we hate.

[Deleted]

I hope this isn't worthy of an infraction, as I'm aware you can be infracted for mentioning peoples grammar, but I'm just curious. Why do you capitalize the first letter in random words? Clash? Main? Very?

[Goretex]

Garrosh was good for the game because he served as an antagonist through which they were able to write interesting lore into the game. Times of conflict, upheavals, sacrifice and big changes, that was obviously healthy for the Warcraft lore, and is healthy for any lore every once in a while.

I can't relate to the whole "it heats the faction conflict up again" argument though. I look at the Warcraft universe as a whole. I happen to play Alliance, but I don't necessarily "side" with it. I'm interested in what happens on Azeroth (and beyond) overall, Alliance and Horde, it's all part of a story, I'm not over-identifying with one particular faction.

The whole idea of looking at one faction as "us" and being passionately against the other one is dumb and juvenile to me. It's even more dumb than referring to "us" when a national ball team wins a game against some other national ball team, or when a goverment decides to throw off some bombs over the territory of another.

As a player I look at it as a whole. I got a few Alliance toons but I favor Horde more they just cooler and plus I despise gnomes.. But when I'm playing Alliance I like to think I hate the other side but we're also trying to kill the big bad guy while fighting another faction, and same goes for when I'm playing horde.It Seems more interesting then oh hey allaince lets hug each other and go battle the big bad guy. Sorry that's boring imo.

---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 07:28 AM ----------

ok here are some examples.

-the eviction of non orc, non tauren races from central orgrimmar due to the belief that they are a weaker race,

- the killing of cairne bloodhoof, poison from Magatha aside, this was an unbelievably arrogant and despicable move.

- following up on that, the assassination attempt on vol'jin....do wise benevolent leaders generally try to assassinate wise generals? No, thats usually tyrants

- the appointment of malkorok as his personal bodyguard and the use of him to quiet dissent through intimidation, abduction, and murder.

- the abduction of the focusing iris, the murder of the blue dragon, and the use of the artifact to make a weapon of mass destruction that was then used to "scour theramore from the continent of kalmidor."

- Garrosh's aim of complete genocide of the alliance.

- Garrosh's proclamation that every man women and child is to assist in the war against the alliance, and anyone found shirking their duties will have to deal with his private police force the kor'kron

- the placement of martial law over the echo isles, effectively turning the troll homeland into an interment camp.

- the attempt to use the divine bell to empower warriors in a similar fashion to drinking demon blood.

edit:

Garrosh's belief that anyone who isn't an orc is an inferior in the horde. (nazi germany anyone?)



I think that pretty much sums it up. As seeing myself as an intelligent member of the horde I simply can not wait to bring justice to this war criminal.

Which makes for excellent lore. I would much rather have this than the horde and alliance joining together to beat the worlds bad guy. Nothign wrong with beating the big bad guy, but at least have soem faction pride and faction war. And everything in between.

[icausewipes]

Howdy everyone, Sab here with another rant.

So again, This is going to be a garrosh based rant today. As always feel free to leave your thoughts =D

So without further adue, Garrosh.. why the horde and WoW needed him!

So as we all know, WoW had fairly Piss weak PvP not in the sense of Gameplay, But lack of Clashing leaders. Open warfare. The whole reason we have two factions is they need to Clash! They need to be at each others throats! Thrall was far to passive and went with the more, Meh.. Defend your selves if needed approach. Now I'm in no way a garrosh fan boy, I actually Main alliance so I really don't care who runs the horde. Just another body to cut through. The way I look at garrosh as.. Well a True orc. Orcs have always been Hardy types Quick to anger, and always very aggressive. They're meant to be damn near savages. Not mindless! But Very savage to say the least. Very proud creatures. Garrosh is a Very smart character design my blizzard in my honest opinion! The entire horde loves to hate him! He put the "War" Back in WARcraft. Garrosh has honestly Restored the Horde to where it needs to be, Not the bad guys. But A "Savage horde'' He has by far over done it and needs to be brought down for his tyrany but lets not just sit there and rant "Hes a dick he should never have become warchief" and all those rants. Hes the hero/Villan The factions needed!

well rant over, I'm ready to take on all the hate full comments that will be inbound!

We need Garrosh to lead the horde thru the alliance tyranny.

[Deleted]

Garrosh Hellscream causing war between the citizens of Azeroth is the last thing we need, with an apparent invasion from the Burning Legion on the cards

[Florena]

Some of the conflicts in cata make sense, especially when you consider that much of it is driven by Garrosh.

SI 7 kidnapping Thrall has always felt very bazaar to me, I'll give you that. I'm under the assumption that given the time frame of the goblin starting zones, the Alliance weren't aware of Thrall's new job of stopping the cataclysm yet.

But after reading the Shattering, I don't think it's at all forced that Garrosh would invade Ashenvale or attempt to take Darkshore with the Shatterspear. Durotar was having resource problems, and the Twilight's Hammer foiled any likelihood of trading with the night elves. I don't think it's forced for the Alliance to try and build a highway into Ashenvale to help their allies, who are suffering from both the cataclysm and orc invasion. Forsaken expanding their borders doesn't feel forced to me, now that they're a force to be reckoned with and have a means to recruit. The island popping up outside of Stormwind was a bit contrived, but Garrosh wanting to take it as a staging ground to invade Stormwind I don't think was forced. When you consider that Garrosh's attitude is 'the Horde can crush ALL of it's enemies' and his sin is pride, then really it doesn't seem forced to me for him to act this way. And there are quests on both faction that have you dealing with the Twilight's Hammer, such as Feralas and Twilight Highlands so they're not completely ignored either. I don't think it's forced, given everything else that's happened, for the Alliance to pull a preemptive strike on Stonnard and secure their borders, considering what happened the last time they underestimated orcs in the swamp. And even if these aren't good reasons, people have gone to war before for less. Look at the debacle that was World War 1. And nations can war without one eventually destroying the other. England and France have a very bloody history but are both still currently standing. Just because one side isn't going to annihlate the other doesn't mean interesting stories like Theramore (the novel, the in game scenario was botched) can't be told.

And once Deathwing was slain, and the cataclysm over, it doesn't seem forced to me at all that Garrosh would seek to wipe Theramore off the map so he can push the Alliance out of Kalimdor with one less front to worry about.

Sure, WoW doesn't have the most stellar writing. There are some inconsistencies, likely the result of having different people designing different quest chains in zones. But when you consider that the Horde is being helmed by Garrosh, who was originally only meant to be a temporary figurehead but took on a more permanent role when Thrall realized he had to be gone much longer, and Varian who refuses to take crap from the Horde post Wrathgate, I don't see the war as forced, if not the best I've ever read.