Tortos 10 Heroic Kiting / Tanking Problems

[Riemu2k3]

Hi,

our Monk has Trouble Kiting the Bats on Tortos 10 HC.
You can get a better understanding of our situation in this thread:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...eroic-Problems

I have created this thread here, because I hope to get better input from fellow monk tanks on this encounter.

Our Monk: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...sarae/advanced

What our Monk does:

- OX Statue in the middle / Boss-ish so he can AoE Taunt bats that head for the Blood DK (when he pulls too much healing aggro) or to taunt bats from healers
- Healers are positioned center-like, so the monk can get the adds from the center
- He throws Barrels on the healers (we have marked them with raidmarks) when the bats land
- He gets assisted by our hunter who misdirects him with barrage
- He kites the bats in a circle like rotation, along the walls of the cave. He tries to avoid the middle for turtles and shit. He constanly hurls barrels at them to dmg/slow them.
- He uses his roll stuff to get away from bats if they cross him / cut him off etc.
- He tries to keep up the crystall shell / get it asap when it falls off (not always possible right away)
- He used the "cone like stun" at first to stun bats, but that didnt turn out so good so he doesnt use stuns anymore
- He calls out for a shadowfury from our warlock if bats are about to fuck him / cut him off

But, it doesn't work out so good.

a) Our healers tend to die from bats at some point during every try / every 2nd try because of bat aggro. That shouldn't never ever happen. I just don't know how to fix that. He has a hunter who Mds him, but we have him MD pretty late (when the bats are about to land), because otherwise when the hunter mds too soon, he will eventually get fucked because the bats come from various directions and might cut him off etc. But playing it like this, it happens that the hunter doesnt reach the bats in time due to rockfall/turtles or that the md just happens too late and the bats get one hit off on the healers (and they usually intagib them).

b) He gets overwhelmed at some point. We opted to kill the bats now every 30%ish (60%, 30%) and clean them up so he can start at 0 again. It works out ok, but I dont know if thats really needed if he plays correctly?

c) He tend to die from turtles coming his way / cutting him off or adds just coming from different directions to him (like because blood dk pulls aggro, hunter mds too soon or whatever).

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We also tried to tank/aoe the Adds at first, but our Monk tends to get rapes pretty soon. Is that normal?

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I'm kinda lost at how to improve / change all that.

Is there any trick we might have missed?

Do you guys have any insight / tipps / maybe even great videos ?


Thanks alot in advance!

Greets

Riemu

[m4ko]

There is no trick. The bats just hit very hard as a pack. You should set up a melee to help your tank. The melee can kill the mobs, slow them and regularly AoE stun them. This helps the kiting tank a lot. Especially at the AoE stun from the boss.

Barrel throw should easily be enough to hold up against heal aggro. Probably not enough against a bursty melee. So you might want to take a melee with good aggro control (rogue/monk?).

In addition to the melee slows/stun the tank can help. He has two AoE stuns (charge + leg sweep). So with CDs he can go inwith stun, re-stun and while there put out LOTS of aggro/dps with Keg smash and finally roll out.

Taking the right Tier1 talent gives your tank a 25% speed boost nearly all the time!

Also all the bats are singel entities. So they may actually aggro different people. Therefore its not as easy as it seems to get all the bats. Barrel throw is insanely good at it but no guarantee. If the pack splits up too much you may have to bomb instead of kite.

[sleepness]

Just sounds like he needs more practice. It's not very hard and once he gets the hang of it it's a breeze. Here's how I kite them and it works pretty well, to the point of not even needing a MD:

- Run Chi Torpedo and Celerity. Torpedo gives the benefit of a slightly longer roll as well as the side effect of healing aggro.
- You can have the barrel slow on the bats before they even land so make sure he's doing this as well.
- I like to run Chi Burst for this for new bat pick up, but his mileage may very. For pickup, I would roll a few times to get enough distance from the bats, use a mouseover Chi Burst macro on the new bats coming, rinse and repeat.
- Shouldn't really get overwhelmed as tanking 6 groups is the same as one. Just make sure to use stuns and rolls effectively to get away. Also, if you are running with another monk or priest, don't be afraid to ask for a speed boost shield or a Tiger's Lust.

[Riemu2k3]

Thanks for your input! I guess he is not using Chi Burst to pickup adds, he just spams Barrels. Would explain why other monks have so little trouble picking up adds / not gibbing healers. You basically always walk in melee range / get the adds from the air + slow and move away again?

Also, he gets overwhelmed by 6 groups because they instagib him once they reach him. And that keeps happening because of turtles blocking him or wrong movement/pickups i guess?

[Bonelazy]

I do that job at 25H and even though it is a bit easier there since we can afford to have a 3rd tank for MD bait, I think there are similarities.

Firstly, I use my "cone stun" which is Charging Ox Wave only on adds that will intercept me (ie. coming from the front). I stun them, and roll through them to keep all adds stacked behind me.

The trickier part in 10H should be when the adds first land. For that, he needs a good camera angle so that he can see where the adds are descending, so he spams his barrels there.

After a few tries, none of these should be an issue imo.

[Shinchib]

He should be using Chi Torpedo as his T90 talent.
If your healers are comfortable with it, you should get your DK tank to swap to Gorefiends Grasp.
Make sure your hunter has the glyph of direction

An alternative strategy is to roll reverse. Have your DK go blood presence in Frost spec with tank gear and just kite them that way; once again, the more Gorefiends grasps the better.

Our DK kiting adds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlBzTGjSuJA&sns=em

[Riemu2k3]

@ Shinchib: Tried DK (me) kiting in Frost with Blood Presence for abit (2 tries) - felt much more difficult due to the slow movement speed. But will watch the movie you provided, maybe I missed something. Tanks!

Why use Glyph of Direction (our hunter is already using it)? (Just so he knows the reason for it)

Edit: Here is our Monk http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...sarae/advanced

[Jaja]

I do this in our 10m.
It is easier to do alone than with help if I'm honest. I had no MD or nothing but our HPala healed with Righteous Fury on.
Bats spawn - barrel lands - kite, it isn't that hard but can take a couple of tries to a feel for the timing of the spawns.
You should never need to kill them, ever.
Really the only time he should ever have a chance of being knocked up is sub 20% when the turtles spawn fast and DPS are ignoring them, other than that he should be looking at where he is going and spamming left click on bats :P

Other things to note :
~Make sure your raid members are not helping you slow them, if they get rooted they will instagib nearest player. Barrel slow is enough, let the other members focus on turtles you focus on bats.
~I ran with chi torpedo and used it and guard for every stomp, meant my crystal did not fall and that I was safe distance from bats when the stun lands

[Shinchib]

Glyph of Direction is bugged. The threat transferred continues after MD is complete. Shhhh. It's working as intended as Blizzard would state.

Bats always spawn after rockfall.

[Deleted]

Why not just kill them?

[Shinchib]

Why not just kill them?

Both are viable strats. It's whatever your guild is more comfortable with.

[Quotey]

http://www.twitch.tv/quotey/c/2109052

Video of me kiting bats. Get the MD in as early as posssible, the room is large enough that you can always find a way out. Warlocks are excellent for 70% AOE slow.

[Ipmann]

I kite these all the time. I opted for Chi Burst on this fight simply because I can target the bats before they ever land and cast that to gain aggro before they hit the healers. I simply stun the bats I am currently kiting with the frontal ox stun.. then target the bats as they are flying down.. Hit the chi burst and then start tossing barrels again..

[Puntr]

Doing some quick log digging your tank needs to Dizzying Haze more ... he's using 1/4 of what other 10M kiters are using, i.e. over your latest 6 attempt night he applied Dizzying Haze 4k times total, there are wipes that have shorter duration with 1k-1.5k applications of Dizzying Haze. Seeing as he is currently having trouble kiting I wouldn't advise Chi Burst as he's going to have to stop and cast, I would go with Zen Sphere so the ticks will add to his shield and not someone else's with Chi Wave. I found that the bigger the kiting circle to harder it was to stack mobs, making it harder to stun/snare all of them at once. Try having him only utilize the front 1/2 of the room using Tortos's legs as the outer edges of his kite path. When done correctly he should be able to have the adds pretty much spin in place while he circles them.

[Moncoko]

I'm usually WW but tank when one of our tanks is absent. We will be pulling H Tortos for the first time Tuesday (2/12 with Ji'kun down). Do people think I should be lobbying to tank this over a warrior/dk combo? It seems fairly easy, and seems like a monk kiter would tremendously help heals and dps focus turtles/boss.

[Riemu2k3]

Try having him only utilize the front 1/2 of the room using Tortos's legs as the outer edges of his kite path. When done correctly he should be able to have the adds pretty much spin in place while he circles them.

Thanks for your input! You don't happen to have a video handy where you/another monk does it like that? We tried it once on the left half of the room but he said the room wasn large enough then and he would get hit pretty fast. Maybe the front is better. But where does the raid stand/play then? Because won't there be alot of turtles in his way when he kites through the middle of the room as his "back path"?

[Deleted]

We have a Druid tanking the adds, I suspect we will be trying the kiting tactic as well next week as he keeps dieing to them.

[Puntr]

Thanks for your input! You don't happen to have a video handy where you/another monk does it like that? We tried it once on the left half of the room but he said the room wasn large enough then and he would get hit pretty fast. Maybe the front is better. But where does the raid stand/play then? Because won't there be alot of turtles in his way when he kites through the middle of the room as his "back path"?

It was something I noticed when I was kiting during progression and the video i have of it is a 1fps lagfest :S ... the raid should be just inside his kite path, making the only time turtles should be a problem would be when they are coming out and he is running past the front of the boss. It can also be done while in the back 1/2 of the room which should eliminate most of the turtle issues (assuming you push your raid up a bit), the only real reason I used the front 1/2 was to dps the boss as I was running by. Coming from a Warrior who did pre-nerf spine kiting and now Brewmaster bat kiting, no amount of guides or videos will guarantee a kill when it comes to kiting. Your brewmaster needs to find something that he is comfortable doing and then stick to it.

[Riemu2k3]

So... we've finally killed him in 10 Tries after this thread.

Thanks for all your input guys!

Things He/We changed that netted us the kill:

- Tried Chi-Burst but didn't really work out for us so well. Sticked with Chi-Wave instead for easier Crystall Shell uptime.
- Shadowfury before every Quakestomp
- Our Hunter mded the Bats really early and made sure to get them all, so that our monk didn't need to bother with picking them up
- Save OX Stun and use it when bats come from the front and roll through them
- Run with Celerity/Chi Torpedo for the increased distance (he didnt know that one and it turned out to be the most importance change)
- Had to use one Gorefiends Grasp to reset the Adds in between when they went all over the place one time
- Cleaned the Bats up at around 50% so the kiting sub 20% was easier
- He also tried to complete his circle at the front shortly before or after the turtles spawned so he didn't end up getting knocked into the air (though our priest gripped him midair one time)

So again, thanks alot guys!

[Puntr]

So... we've finally killed him in 10 Tries after this thread.

Congrats on the kill!