Vol'jin on, "Why should we (Alliance) help you?" (5.3 spoilers)

[topitopi]

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...5%203/help.jpg - thanks to Leviation on SoL

i like his pride, but the war wont be ending with that attitude.

Pretty obvious he's just saying we do it my way or you will fail. He's also right: alliance attacking Org on their own is certain doom

[Sandrox]

Except Vol'Jin is smart enough to not do this. There can't be a game of chicken "Who's going in first?" because one side knows the other will come in from behind while they're weakened and vice versa. The only way to succeed is to work together and strike together. The Alliance needs the rebels as much as the rebels need the Alliance. Accept it. Orgrimmar is way to strongly defended to be taken by a frontal assault from the Alliance, and the rebels don't have enough strength to take it by force from within.

There are rebel Horde already in and around Orgrimmar, he wouldnt have time to wait around. The Alliance has to come from across the sea or from far north to get to Orgrimmar, the rebel Horde are already there.

[Karagar]

-Krakens

Uh oh, our docks.

Or, you know, the ability to besiege a place like Stormwind from two fronts.

-Proto-drakes

Didn't do much for the Vrykul.

The Horde (through the Dragonmaw clan) have access to the Demon-Chain (the chain that once held the Demon Soul; and absorbed quite a bit of its dragon-effecting power in the process) which has been shown to have the ability to mentally dominate full-sized dragons. Proto-Drakes are just a convenient first step. Also; they sort of allow a convenient third vector to the aforementioned siege.

-Dire Orcs

Gurtogg wasn't an issue

Gurtogg was also a single Dire Orc that in his proper temporal context required an entire raid to defeat. And there's reason to believe that Garrosh may be mass-producing them. Think about that for a moment.

-Heart of an Old God

Fought and beat 2 whole Old Gods

No; we gave two SEVERELY weakened Old Gods the equivalent of papercuts and caused them to submerge back into their prisons; and in the case of the second one we had the assistance of his Titan-empowered/created jailers. (if you managed to get "Alone in the Darkness" i offer both my apology for the previous assumption and my congratulations; but in-lore I believe we subdued Yog-Saron with the assistance of the Keepers.)

and also beat all the "horrible" manifestations this old god left upon Pandaria thus far.

No; we haven't "beat" a single major Sha manifestation. All we've managed to do is temporarily force them out of a corporeal state. To quote two of them:

You cannot escape me. I am... in... every... breath...

So long has violence lurks in your heart...I will return...

We simply don't have the means to permanently destroy the Sha; as they're just manifestations of emotions all but the most pure of people possess. Also; we have no idea what powers the Heart of Y'shaarj could possibly grant; or if Yshaarj itself might just use Garrosh as a "vessel" the same way C'thun used Cho'gall; which could make an already dangerous and unstable madman a thousand times more dangerous and unstable.

((And to dispell any possible accusations of "OMFG HORDE BIAS!!1" I have a lvl 90 on both factions and I play them roughly equally. (although my Horde main is older due to the fact that my Alliance main is a Worgen) and i consider it wise to play both factions to see both sides of the story and to try and look at said story/lore as objectively as possible.

[bohapjut]

Except Vol'Jin is smart enough to not do this. There can't be a game of chicken "Who's going in first?" because one side knows the other will come in from behind while they're weakened and vice versa.

Pretty much what happened on the broken front http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Broken_Front_(Horde)

[Lavannah]

((And to dispell any possible accusations of "OMFG HORDE BIAS!!1" I have a lvl 90 on both factions and I play them roughly equally. (although my Horde main is older due to the fact that my Alliance main is a Worgen) and i consider it wise to play both factions to see both sides of the story and to try and look at said story/lore as objectively as possible.

Yep, right here *raises hand* You're missing out if you only play one side. Some times it doesn't always make sense(like when either faction is forcing Pandaren to work for them in the starting section of the Jade Forest) but for the most part, there's stuff that happens on the Horde side that effects the Alliance side and vise vera.

Example: Socks the Raccoon.

[Lakrin]

In this thread: a lot of people that don't understand narrative or character intent.

Vol'jin did nothing out of character. This is him standing up for what he believes in, and damn the consequences.

[Sesto]

So is this like a dialogue option? With some NPCs, you can choose to learn more about stuff by choosing options. So I guess Alliance players can ask him why they should help the Horde? If so, the answer is obvious.

An alliance player, walking up to Vol'jin, saying, "why should we help you"?, what would Vol'jin's reaction be? Obviously he is going to snap, and say "fine, try and fight him by yourself, we'll be sure to finish him off when you are all dead".

[grisset]

There are rebel Horde already in and around Orgrimmar, he wouldnt have time to wait around. The Alliance has to come from across the sea or from far north to get to Orgrimmar, the rebel Horde are already there.

They're there, but they don't have the strength to attack. Why would they attack?

[Sandrox]

They're there, but they don't have the strength to attack. Why would they attack?

Whos to say Garrosh wouldnt attack them first?

[Karagar]

I bet he also finds it funny when his people are being shot in the middle of the day. Jaina would have drowned ORG if it wasn't for Thrall. I'm pretty sure they can kick their asses without even one Alliance member dying.

Sure; if you're willing to commit an atrocity on the same scale as Theramore; considering the fact that Orgrimmar is still filled with completely innocent people that can't leave for various reasons. (actually even more severe; since alliance ships carrying civilians that chose to leave Theramore were allowed to pass unmolested by the Horde naval blockade according to "Tides of War" IIRC)

[grisset]

Whos to say Garrosh wouldnt attack them first?

A number of reasons: He's busy in Pandaria excavating the Heart of Y'Shaarj. The rebels are spread out over a large territory (Org, Durotar, Barrens, Pandaria). He hasn't identified everyone who has allied with the rebellion. An open attack against the trolls could have the tauren, belfs, goblins rise up to join the rebels.

[kage]

He's bluffing them out. "You wanna do this on your own? Fine die see if I care. Oh and we'll totally be fine with out you and win and then do X even." (X in this case is giving Sylvannas the corpses). It is literally the oldest trick in the book.

[Haven]

No, it's not what will happen.

Also Vol'jin is being sarcastic as fuck, reading comprehension people.

May I have one of your crystal balls?

Except Vol'Jin is smart enough to not do this. There can't be a game of chicken "Who's going in first?" because one side knows the other will come in from behind while they're weakened and vice versa. The only way to succeed is to work together and strike together. The Alliance needs the rebels as much as the rebels need the Alliance. Accept it. Orgrimmar is way to strongly defended to be taken by a frontal assault from the Alliance, and the rebels don't have enough strength to take it by force from within.

Like I said, after the siege is over.

[kage]

That goes COMPLETELY against his attitude he's had in the past.

Seems like they're just building him up to be an Alliance hater to be the new warchief, to be honest.

*sarcasm* Yeah he's so racist against the Alliance he says in some 5.3 Dialogue 'he thinks he could call them "friend" someday' clearly he is Warcraft Hitler in the making!*sarcasm*

Edit: Case you didn't believe me.

[Dreamchaser]

Oh Goddess...

It was a slippery slope argument.

Calm.
Down.

[Karagar]

Nothing like that will ever happen as long as Metzen and his pro-Horde cohorts are in charge of the story. Just gt used to being there as a foil for the Horde to beat up on and as a fanservice for the Horde, both in their civil war and in the Horde-led Army of the Light.

You mean the Army of Light that according to Velen's prophecies Anduin Wrynn is going to lead..? And no, Anduin is NOT Horde just because he cansee beyond factional squabbles and do what needs to be done.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 02:32 AM ----------

The Horde invented velcro for us

I'm actually a little surprised that the Gnomes haven't invented a Velcro analog yet; since it seems right up their alley: exceptionally utilitarian but at the same time just a little quirky/silly. (of course if they did invent it the Goblins would immediayly steal the plans and try to corner the market.)

[mysticx]

Were you expecting Vol'jin to kiss your feet?

Well, at least a bit less attitude anyway, since if the alliance stays out of this Garrosh will eventually find and root out his little rebel movement, and then blither his way into defeat anyway (His war isn't going all that well, is it?), but by that time Vol'jin's head will be perched above the Orgrimmar gates already.

And then the alliance does the "Horde at the broken front"-thing, strike when the horde is busy in-fighting, and quash Garrosh and Vol'jin with his little revolt in one swoop, but game-reasons keep us from doing that...

[bohapjut]

I'm sure there's more to this than what's here let's wait until the patch is out to judge

[Stelio Kontos]

You mean the Army of Light that according to Velen's prophecies Anduin Wrynn is going to lead..? And no, Anduin is NOT Horde just because he cansee beyond factional squabbles and do what needs to be done.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 02:32 AM ----------



I'm actually a little surprised that the Gnomes haven't invented a Velcro analog yet; since it seems right up their alley: exceptionally utilitarian but at the same time just a little quirky/silly. (of course if they did invent it the Goblins would immediayly steal the plans and try to corner the market.)

Yes, Anduin's a good example of the Horde Metzen wants. Shuckin' and jivin' for the Horde. Like others have said, if he believed it would make the Horde happy, he'd happily deliver Alliance corpses to the Forsaken.

[Thrive]

Oh come on, please don't make him another Garrosh...siigh this makes me mad.

Why? Because he's telling the Alliance that if he turns on them they will be killed? How is this a big deal?