Holy mother 10man nerf

[Deleted]

For casual raids T14 is still far too difficult to just farm it on their 1-2 raid days quick enough to ever progress in t15. Then again "why bother doing t14 when lfr ilvl is higher?". Casuals don't want to be efficiently plan out how they are going to play the game for the next few months, they want to play it now as broad as possible for they never know how long their environment / motivation lasts. If they could roflstomp t14 with newbie 90 in raidrdy-gear then it would be a different thing (like karazhan was back in tbc) but as it stands you need to learn encounters and even after that you can still wipe on them easily - as a casual raidgroup (that will never have the same 10-14 guys every week).

Stomp old content in the ground. Make it the LFR for premades. Maybe then the gating will run. As it stands it wont.

[clevin]

It doesn't stomp on a lot of customers. These normal modes need to last until the next raid six months down the line.

The next raid probably isn't 6 more months out (7 months from 5.2). It's probably 3 or 4 months out which would make the tier about 4 or 5 months long.This change will let people progress slightly more but face it, no one is going to go "oh hey, we can now get past Horridon and kill Council too" and then charge right through to Lei Shen.

The goal should be for a good but not exceptional group who started near the beginning of the tier to clear the tier while it's current and to farm most of it a bit so that they go into the next tier with most of their raiders in normal tier gear.

You could nerf the heroics a lot too and then anyone who raids for a sense of accomplishment is probably done with WoW. I know a lot of them already abandoned the game in dragon soul. Say what you want but progressed guilds build a lot of interest in raiding and in WoW. It's not good design to kill off the upper/middle echelon of raiders.

No one is talking about heroic modes. Personally, I don't think heroics should ever be nerfed unless they were blatantly screwed up. Heroics are, by definition, for top end guilds to have a challenge.

[seijo]

Bricks walls are not what Blizzard wants. They've said as much before in the previous tier.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8445111/

A lot of people crying about this seem to have the wrong idea of how Blizzard approaches encounter difficulty tuning.

Ion Hazzikostas was referring to Elegon nerfs at the time but the logic still the same. They want people to continually progress. In the past tier there were item upgrades but even then they stuck in nerfs when they noticed people brickwalling. He even says in some cases it isn't because the content is necessarily "too hard" but if people brick wall, IT WILL BE CHANGED. You crying about how your nostalgic past tiers weren't the same are a moot point since they've admitted the way things were in the past locked too many people out of content and that's a huge no-no moving forward.

The argument that LFR is there for normal raiders to see content is not really addressing the point that they want raiders to continually progress. In recent interviews including the Gamebreaker one, they stated LFR is not considered part of the progression path of raiders. That's not exactly 100% accurate in reality but their intent is there.

[clevin]

I think the real problem in this teir is that this is the second boss of the instance. If this boss was about the middle of the teir there would be no need to nerf it. This seems to be something that Blizzard is not great at this xpac. There is no difficulty curve and too mant difficult bosses too early in every teir. Stone Guard should never have been the first boss in the first instance as there were easier bosses behind it and this has been repeated in every instance so far. I personally think iof Blizzard got the difficlty curve a little better there would be no need for these nerfs.

BING BING BING

Horridon was overtuned for his position in the raid. As the 6th boss, not an issue. As the 2nd? Issue.

[Deleted]

Who made you god? You're just another self-absorbed little baby who can't accept that his viewpoint might not be the only valid one. If you're in heroics, why do you give a crap about the first few bosses of 10 man normal ToT? IF you're not in heroics, well, you must suck. Right?

Read previous posts instead of blindly insulting perhaps ? I never said people not in heroics suck. And I never insulted anyone , call them bad or anything.
you on thge other hand must have come back from a very bad day at work ! Welcome to the thread !

All I implied along the last few pages of this thread is that if you can't currently get past the first 4 bosses, you are either undegreared (under 500? Not farming T14 normals as Blizzard wanted you to ?) or, doing something wrong (could be no flasks, bad strategy, or yes, as you suggest, no skill).

[Candiman]

At a rough calculation 4.5% of the entire WoW population has killed the first 4 bosses in ToT on normal. I would hardly call that average.

[celinamuna]

And then I look at your DK on the armory and notice you're 1/12 heroic.

And then you look at my DK on the armory and notice he doesn't have any heroic kills last tier, just further proving my point.

At a rough calculation 4.5% of the entire WoW population has killed the first 4 bosses in ToT on normal. I would hardly call that average.

At a rough calculation, 43.35% have killed the first 4 bosses in ToT of those who actually killed the 1st one (Who is easily puggable with ppl < 490 ilvl)

[Candiman]

And then you look at my DK on the armory and notice he doesn't have any heroic kills last tier, just further proving my point.

It proves you are in an above average guild and does nothing to prove your point.

[clevin]

Read previous posts instead of blindly insulting perhaps ? I never said people not in heroics suck. And I never insulted anyone , call them bad or anything.
you on thge other hand must have come back from a very bad day at work ! Welcome to the thread !

All I implied along the last few pages of this thread is that if you can't currently get past the first 4 bosses, you are either undegreared (under 500? Not farming T14 normals as Blizzard wanted you to ?) or, doing something wrong (could be no flasks, bad strategy, or yes, as you suggest, no skill).

I've read your posts. They're shortsighted, self-involved and lacking in sympathy for the perspective of other people. I've said this before as you'd know if you read the thread.

[Nitros14]

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. If you look at the data a large number of guilds have basically been told to give up on organized raiding and go to LFR.

Now, the usual (and utterly irrelevant) elite response to that observation is that these players DESERVE to be treated this way, or even that it's better, for them, to be treated this way.



That's why heroics would be tuned down at the same time. The very highest end raiders might get bored. Too bad, we'll throw a pity party for them.

No one is talking about heroic modes. Personally, I don't think heroics should ever be nerfed unless they were blatantly screwed up. Heroics are, by definition, for top end guilds to have a challenge.

Well alright. That little incongruency aside...


I have no doubt you believe that would create a more fun game. And maybe it would for a few weeks. But then boredom will set in and Blizzard will lose tons of subscriptions. There are reasons why content is the way it is.

[celinamuna]

It proves you are in an above average guild and does nothing to prove your point.

You mean i don't need to farm heroic t14 gear to progress in ToT ? Shocking.

[ThePants999]

Really, the player level is diminishing every day. I get your points that difficulty should be tuned to the player base, and i disagree. I think it should be here to raise people's skill level, not lower itself to them.

I understand your position better now, thank you. I'm afraid Blizzard disagrees, and I agree with Blizzard. The intent of normal modes is to cater for those of low (but some) skill. They weren't doing that pre-nerf, and now they'll do it better.

[Candiman]

You mean i don't need to farm heroic t14 gear to progress in ToT ? Shocking.

The funny thing is that while you personally don't have any heroic T14 kills your guild just happens to have Heroic Will of the Emperor and there are other people in your guild who do have heroic kills so while you may not be a heroic raider you are in a heroic raiding guild.

[Deleted]

I've read your posts. They're shortsighted, self-involved and lacking in sympathy for the perspective of other people. I've said this before as you'd know if you read the thread.

your opinion is duly noted.

On topic ? nothing ? kthxbai

[Osmeric]

Well alright. That little incongruency aside...

Yeah.

I have no doubt you believe that would create a more fun game. And maybe it would for a few weeks. But then boredom will set in and Blizzard will lose tons of subscriptions. There are reasons why content is the way it is.

No, you are just spouting a silly scenario. The highest end raiders might be bored. The thing about them is that they are an extreme minority. Even if every last one of them quit, Blizzard would still come out ahead, most likely.

The vast majority of people who have quit the game have not done so because they played through the end of all the raid content. So, having tough raids around isn't any sort of panacea to prevent boredom. Content that is tuned beyond what one can reasonably expect to do, or to have fun doing, might as well not be in the game at all, from the perspective of that player.

What the detuning would do is allow the lower end players to play together, in the organized raiding that does help retain subs. Right now, those low end guilds are being made almost entirely irrelevant. It's that lack of social connection that's really dangerous to retention.

[Szemere]

It's only normal, which I have to admit wasn't the easiest, tho it's like the 4th time they nerf those bosses, so.... yeah, IDK what to think about this.

[Deleted]

I understand your position better now, thank you. I'm afraid Blizzard disagrees, and I agree with Blizzard. The intent of normal modes is to cater for those of low (but some) skill. They weren't doing that pre-nerf, and now they'll do it better.

Hmm I'm not sure what blue post made you put thosze words in Blizzard's mouth/pen.
If you have a link i'd be willing to read and learn.

I totally agree with you normals is to cater for those of some skill (not low, sry). But there's skill, and theres ilvl requirements, that ppl in this thread have clearly stated they disregard : no one here wants to farm T14 to be able to raid T15, and THAT is blizzard's design.

[celinamuna]

The funny thing is that while you personally don't have any heroic T14 kills your guild just happens to have Heroic Will of the Emperor.

Which is why i was referring mostly to my paladin. Who only did 2 H MV raids before ToT, only cleared it once, and got 1 item out of it.

[Deleted]

Celina is right though, this isn't even the first nerfs to ToT normals modes ...

[Deleted]

Hmm I'm not sure what blue post made you put thosze words in Blizzard's mouth/pen.
If you have a link i'd be willing to read and learn.

I totally agree with you normals is to cater for those of some skill (not low, sry). But there's skill, and theres ilvl requirements, that ppl in this thread have clearly stated they disregard : no one here wants to farm T14 to be able to raid T15, and THAT is blizzard's design.

Very few people want to farm old stuff to do new stuff.

Given that's the case, it's bad design to expect them to.