Poll: Will Lordaeron be restored?

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  1. #461
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    It is why they joined the horde, I just did not mention about the spies. splitting hairs Aqua
    The incident with Garithos certainly didn't help relations, but it wasn't insurmountable. The BElves were still leaning towards siding with the Alliance, evident by them initially accepting Alliance ambassadors and snubbing Sylvanas' offers. They only accepted Sylvanas' help when it became clear the Alliance representatives were spies and they didn't really have anywhere else to turn to.

    EDIT: However, when referenced, Blizzard usually goes to the Garithos incident because it is more well known and more poignant. Not everyone played through the BElf starting area.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 05:44 PM.

  2. #462
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    No, it should be forsaken, both story-wise and gameplay wise. The alliance players needs to realise its gone.
    It should stay forsaken for quite a while, after all, they are it's rightfull owners. More citizens of lordaeron are forsaken than the amount who actually escaped.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Until proven otherwise, Calia is alive and is the Queen of Lordaeron by dynastic right.
    Exactly. People might not like it, but Sylvanas is essentially an usurper unless it can be proven that Calia gave up her claim to the throne willingly. Which IS entirely possible considering how the average human in Azeroth views the Forsaken...

    We need some Calia lore, her being Forsaken now would be an interesting twist. We have nothing confirmed either way.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Until proven otherwise, Calia is alive and is the Queen of Lordaeron by dynastic right.

    In the same way as in the book of Arthas is meant as Calia could be dead, we could also bring up the story of that paladin who went to rescue a young woman into the Undercity, a girl who was referred as "my princess" ...
    That story of the paladin is from the RPG and is not canon. Arthas novel is canon and says she's dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Exactly. People might not like it, but Sylvanas is essentially an usurper unless it can be proven that Calia gave up her claim to the throne willingly. Which IS entirely possible considering how the average human in Azeroth views the Forsaken...

    We need some Calia lore, her being Forsaken now would be an interesting twist. We have nothing confirmed either way.
    Arthas gave up the kingdom to the Forsaken when he fled to Northrend. Usurper doesn't quite apply to Sylvanas since she has the support of the Lordaeron people.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 06:02 PM.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That story of the paladin is from the RPG and is not canon. Arthas novel is canon and says she's dead.
    The Arthas novel does not say she is dead. Arthas looks back on all of the people who know of the secret exit out of Lordaeron and realizes that they are all "gone". "Gone" could mean anything. It could mean that she is in fact dead, or that Arthas just thinks that she is for whatever reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Arthas gave up the kingdom to the Forsaken when he fled to Northrend.
    Arthas is not Calia. Really, if he thought Calia is dead then that is not surprising.

    Also does not invalidate Calia's claim to the throne...although Calia is not the only one who can argue for a legitimate claim. If Calia is alive/undead, that is.
    Last edited by Celista; 2013-09-09 at 06:11 PM.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    The Arthas novel does not say she is dead. Arthas looks back on all of the people who know of the secret exit out of Lordaeron and realizes that they are all "gone". "Gone" could mean anything. It could mean that she is in fact dead, or that Arthas just thinks that she is for whatever reason.
    If you take it out of context...

    Finally he reached his quarters and the secret exit built into the wall. He, his parents, and Calia each had one…known only to them, Uther, and the bishop. All were gone now, save he,

    His parents, Uther, and the bishop are all dead so when he lumps Calia in with them and says they are all gone, that means she is dead too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Arthas is not Calia. Really, if he thought Calia is dead then that is not surprising.

    Also does not invalidate Calia's claim to the throne...although Calia is not the only one who can argue for a legitimate claim. If Calia is alive/undead, that is.
    Actually, if you want to get really technical... Arthas placed Kel'thuzad in charge of Lordaeron:

    Kel’Thuzad inclined his horned head. “I am grateful I could be of assistance, my king. But you must hasten from this place, to Northrend. All the preparations for your journey have been made. What is it you would have of me?”
    Kel’Thuzad had been right. Even now, Arthas was beginning to feel some semblance of life returning to his limbs, though not enough that he could move under his own power. “I need to find the Lich King as soon as possible. Much longer and…I don’t know what the future holds, or if I’ll even return, but I want you to watch over this land. See to it that my legacy endures.”


    Since Kel'Thuzad's phylactery has never been destroyed, he is still alive and the legally appointed guardian of Lordaeron. So even if Calia were to return, her claim wouldn't supersede Kel'Thuzad's.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 06:18 PM.

  7. #467
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Calia has no right to the lands, or to rule those people. Why? because the people have chosen to follow another ruler their own Banshee queen. You cannot rule a people who do not wish to be ruled. Since the story heavily hints to calia being killed off and there is no mention of her since we can only assume at best she is MIA and at worst KIA.
    But you can not deny that the mere existence of Calia would give much play (narratively speaking)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    I vote for a Socialist Republic. All Kings, Queens and other Aristocatic Parasites should be beheaded!
    As a staunch monarchist I refuse! In any case would have to conduct a referendum to choose the mode of Government

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    You mean the "Queen" of nothing. Lordaeron's Kingdom and Dynasty has totally, completely fallen and is now ruled by a new power.
    The Lordaeron's Kingdom may have fallen, but the Menethil dynasty will continue while Calia is alive ... or undead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    What are people talking about? Lordaeron IS restored. It's more beautiful than ever.
    If your aesthetic tastes are those of the Forsaken ... better not invite me to your home ...

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    I am amazed by some people on MMO-C... looking at Northem with his Lordearon fable, night elf fascist Moon Blade and that guy who always says that Tinkers are going to be the next class.
    I may be fascist, but I will never have any relationship with the Night Elves! Their dark skin betray them as non-aryan people!

    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    You should probably watch X-Man, where they found a "cure" for mutants. Lots of moral material for you, on how well they accepted the idea of being "cured".
    I am aware that a large part of the Forsaken are happy with their new way of "life", in fact I'm sure they will continue to be loyal to Sylvanas forever.

    However, there have been already cases of Forsaken who miss their lives as humans and serve not very willingly to Sylvanas.
    These are the Forsaken that would accept a "cure". And that promise of "curing" could come from Calia, as their legitimate Queen. (Yes, I'm promoting an excision between the Forsaken).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    His parents, Uther, and the bishop are all dead so when he lumps Calia in with them and says they are all gone, that means she is dead too.
    False! That is an assumption of yours. In the novel just says that Calia "was no longer there". Until Blizzard says something about it, Calia may be alive somewhere... or undead...

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Until Blizzard says something about it, Calia may be alive somewhere... or undead...
    I would be more inclined to believe you if you didn't spout off RPG books as references for her being alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    False! That is an assumption of yours. In the novel just says that Calia "was no longer there".
    An assumption based on English syntax... "All were gone, save he" everyone else referred to as "gone" by the mention of "all" is dead. "Gone" is a common euphemism for 'dead'. Since Calia is lumped into that same category of "all" she is also dead.

    And why are you putting "was no longer there" in quotes claiming that is what the novel says? I linked the exact passage from the book and "was no longer there" is not in the novel.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    An assumption based on English syntax... "All were gone, save he" everyone else referred to as "gone" by the mention of "all" is dead. Since Calia is lumped into that same category of "all" she is also dead.

    And why are you putting "was no longer there" in quotes claiming that is what the novel says? I linked the exact passage from the book and "was no longer there" is not in the novel.


    I would be more inclined to believe you if you didn't spout off RPG books as references for her being alive.
    I'm leaning towards her being alive or possibly being brought back, based off the 2011 Q&A:

    Q: This question is regarding Lordaeron, I want to know what happened to Arthas' sister, what happened to her?
    A: We are thinking about it. We dont really have a plan but we have been talking about her forever. There were some hooks in the RPG line but no current plans.

    I think the wording in the novel was deliberately vague. I wouldn't be surprised if they out of the blue one day confirmed she was 100% for sure dead and not coming back, but at the same time I could see a Lady Stoneheart-like storyline working well for Calia (although that may be too close to Sylvanas' storyline), or acting as a savior to the Forsaken if Sylvanas ever managed to alienate herself from her people for good.

    But again, that's assuming that Calia doesn't view the Forsaken with the same fear and disgust that most of Azeroth does, if she's even alive.
    Last edited by Celista; 2013-09-09 at 07:40 PM.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    I'm leaning towards her being alive or possibly being brought back, based off the 2011 Q&A:

    Q: This question is regarding Lordaeron, I want to know what happened to Arthas' sister, what happened to her?
    A: We are thinking about it. We dont really have a plan but we have been talking about her forever. There were some hooks in the RPG line but no current plans.

    I think the wording in the novel was deliberately vague. I wouldn't be surprised if they out of the blue one day confirmed she was 100% for sure dead and not coming back, but at the same time I could see a Lady Stoneheart-like storyline working well for Calia (although that may be too close to Sylvanas' storyline), or acting as a savior to the Forsaken if Sylvanas ever managed to alienate herself from her people for good.

    But again, that's assuming that Calia doesn't view the Forsaken with the same fear and disgust that most of Azeroth does.
    They specifically mention the hook from the RPG, which isn't canon so the hook itself isn't canon. That doesn't mean Blizzard can't canonize the hook and develop Calia's story further. The novel describing her as dead doesn't discount her possible return.

    It's highly unlikely that a living person would want a kingdom full of undead and canon pointing to her being dead. It's unlikely that she was ever Scourge or Arthas would have known about her. Possible ways to bring her back in a way where she wouldn't want to torch Forsaken:
    • The Cult of the Damned discover her body and resurrect her as Scourge. They try to use her as a ploy to gain control of Lordaeron. PC's discover who she is and free her from their control, effectively making her Forsaken.
    • Or upon resurrection by the Cult of the Damned, Calia becomes their new leader who is using the Scourge in the Plaguelands to retake Lordaeron for herself.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 07:56 PM.

  11. #471
    The Lightbringer leaks's Avatar
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    Or she could show up, make a claim to the right of ruling, and then promptly have her head removed from her shoulders by a thoroughly entertained deathguard.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Or she could show up, make a claim to the right of ruling, and then promptly have her head removed from her shoulders by a thoroughly entertained deathguard.
    horde have zero chance of winning vs alliance army , but GL trying to do that . also we already took UC once

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    horde have zero chance of winning vs alliance army , but GL trying to do that . also we already took UC once
    I'm not sure what this had to do with what I said but sure, ok.
    "Terror, darkness, power? The Forsaken crave not these things; the Forsaken ARE these things."

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    also we already took UC once
    If you consider killing a mere scientist as taking UC, while the Horde kill the dreadlord in charge.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    horde have zero chance of winning vs alliance army , but GL trying to do that . also we already took UC once
    With horde sieging the main entrance while you were skulking in through cave system conveniently created by Blizzard.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    horde have zero chance of winning vs alliance army , but GL trying to do that . also we already took UC once
    That's just about as backwards a statement as you could make. Seriously though, why do so many of you think that Lordaeron is suppose to be such a big deal to the current Alliance? As far as I know, Varian wasn't even King during the second war and is very aware that the current residents of Lordaeron are the native population. Not like the Horde conquered it and the population became foreign over night.

  17. #477
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    It should be restored to its original settlers, the elves.

    That means King Lor'themar Theron.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    That's just about as backwards a statement as you could make. Seriously though, why do so many of you think that Lordaeron is suppose to be such a big deal to the current Alliance? As far as I know, Varian wasn't even King during the second war and is very aware that the current residents of Lordaeron are the native population. Not like the Horde conquered it and the population became foreign over night.

    King Varian Wrynn says: What say you now, Putress?
    King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!
    King Varian Wrynn says: How much longer will we allow these savages free reign in our world?
    King Varian Wrynn says: I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds...
    King Varian Wrynn says: I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs.

  19. #479
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    King Varian Wrynn says: What say you now, Putress?
    King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!
    King Varian Wrynn says: How much longer will we allow these savages free reign in our world?
    King Varian Wrynn says: I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds...
    King Varian Wrynn says: I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs.
    Varian is clearly delusional or just ranting gibberish against the Horde. Just finished killing the apothecary responsible for horrible acts against humans and starts spouting off crap about orcs in a kingdom that doesn't belong to him. All his soldiers are from Stormwind.

    And he continues to rant about orcs later too, despite this whole incident being because of rogue Forsaken who sided with the Legion:
    King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
    King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
    King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.
    King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!


    Not to mention he went there with the sole intention of capturing UC for the Alliance even after learning that Thrall was going in to punish those responsible.
    Thrall: Tell your king that we will do everything in our power to bring the perpetrators of this cowardly act to justice. We will do all that we can to avoid conflict with the Alliance, but we will not hesitate to defend ourselves if provoked.

    Varian: They have lost the Undercity? Then the time to strike is now. We will deal with Putress ourselves and retake the Ruins of Lordaeron for the Alliance!
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-09-09 at 08:32 PM.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalodrei View Post
    King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!
    Oh right. He was freakishly racist back then. (With good reason. His treatment made Thrall's look like a vacation.)

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