Thread: Paladins in T15

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    Council and Megaera can and have been single tanked. The dps requirement for Council is made significantly lower by one tanking. "Nearly every" was an over exaggeration, but still. Having one of the class can entirely mitigate mechanics.
    To be fair council can be solo tanked by any tank, roll guy is no tank, priestess you just have to keep ranged aggro on (warlocks can ranged tank her) only sul and frost king needs to be tanked and if done right only frost king should deal significant damage to your tank. I don't see how magaera can be solotanked in 25man hc though...

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 08:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    tankadins are OP; other paladins are worthwhile bringing for utility but nothing too ott.
    Well ret is pretty useless atm, 2-3 fights we're not rock bottom. Else we're so bad we shouldn't be considered
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Well ret is pretty useless atm, 2-3 fights we're not rock bottom. Else we're so bad we shouldn't be considered
    Thankfully you have 2 other specs to bring to a raid, one of which is massively OP!

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    So basically just because you don't have a Paladin in your raid you want Paladins nerfed? Seems a little unreasonable seeing as BoP has been around since vanilla, and it never has been a problem. Other classes have brought huge advantages to the raid in the past, this isn't the first time something like this happens (Resto Shamans in Sunwell, Disc priests in T14, etc). The issue is not Paladins, the problem is 10 man raids and lack of certain classes.
    I don't think his problem is so much with BoP as it is with the Clemency talent combined with it working on too many fights in one tier. BoP has always been situationally powerful and situationally useless, there just happens to be many fights this tier which lean towards the former.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    To be fair council can be solo tanked by any tank, roll guy is no tank, priestess you just have to keep ranged aggro on (warlocks can ranged tank her) only sul and frost king needs to be tanked and if done right only frost king should deal significant damage to your tank. I don't see how magaera can be solotanked in 25man hc though...

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 08:59 AM ----------



    Well ret is pretty useless atm, 2-3 fights we're not rock bottom. Else we're so bad we shouldn't be considered
    You may not be able to solo tank 25 heroic Magaera, but the benefits of solo tanking in 25 man aren't as great as those in 10. Being able to have one tank with ridiculous vengeance and an extra dps is game changing in a 10 man environment.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    I guess I just haven't seen it be that big of a DPS increase yet. For most of WoW switching a tank our for a DPS would have been double or more DPS, that's not really the case anymore. Its still a DPS increase but I don't see it as a game breaker.

    So no, I don't think one tanking is really such a huge issue or that guilds who can't do it are suffering hugely. But yes Prot and Holy are very good and one might feel gimped without them, but its due to a multitude of reasons. Both specs perform very well within their own boundaries (like HPS, or mitigation) while ALSO providing big class-wide utility like double BoPs.
    Guilds that can't do it aren't suffering hugely, but there is a considerable disparity between having a paladin prot tank in 10 man heroic and not having one. Especially if a guild isn't as alt heavy. The dps increase will obviously vary per fight, but it is considerable as well.

    You easily get twice the dps of a dps spec than you do a tank spec in typical fights, and single tanking typically allows the sole tank to build up enough vengeance to equate to making up for the other tanks original dps as well as their own. So you can basically bring in a whole extra dps on fights that allow single tanking, and in 10 mans that's a significant advantage.

    My primary problem though is how HoP and paly bubble allows negating of certain mechanics in some ways that are flat out ridiculous in some scenarios. Changing HoP so it doesn't effect nearly as many encounter mechanics and possibly even changing prot paladin's bubble to a normal CD that won't remove debuffs would make it not so ridiculous. Paladins alone have so much utility that it elevates these advantages to the point where tanking paladins are in too good of a place right now compared to other tanks.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    Yeah, your examples are right. My issue is just that in the case of ToT, the key class is paladins of any spec for most fights rather than a specific fight here and there.
    I wouldn't say ANY spec. Holy and prot is strong, but ret is in a really bad state compared to other dps, as per usual.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cairhiin View Post
    So basically just because you don't have a Paladin in your raid you want Paladins nerfed? Seems a little unreasonable seeing as BoP has been around since vanilla, and it never has been a problem. Other classes have brought huge advantages to the raid in the past, this isn't the first time something like this happens (Resto Shamans in Sunwell, Disc priests in T14, etc). The issue is not Paladins, the problem is 10 man raids and lack of certain classes.
    My issues with paladins, prot paladins in particular, are how much utility they bring and how it can negate mechanics. I have a prot paladin in my 10 man raid and know very well how ridiculously amazing tanks they are not just because of their tanking abilities but all of the utility they bring on top of it. It's not about wanting to nerf paladins, in fact it would suck for my raid if they did nerf prot paladins, but their utility of having devo aura and Clemency is overpowered compared to what other tanks bring. I have no problem with rets or holy paladins having these abilities, they can use the utility to get into raids, but a tank doesn't need all of the same utility on top of being able to much more easily solo tank bosses. Compared to the other tanks their utility is absurd.

  8. #28
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    281
    The problem is just that tank debuffs are BoP'able in the first place. I honestly don't get it...
    Same goes for bubble imo, prot paladins are crazy enough as is without being able to IGNORE fight mechanics.

    The fact some tank healing scales with AP is also mindboggling retarded.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    Thankfully you have 2 other specs to bring to a raid, one of which is massively OP!
    That's what Ghostcrawler said about PvP too.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Iso View Post
    The fact some tank healing scales with AP is also mindboggling retarded.
    That's like that with other tanks too. Frenzied regen, shield barrier, death strike heal+absorb.

    It's fine for the heal such as SS, WoG to scale with AP. Problem is battle healer glyphed scales with it too, which makes up a significant portion of the prot paly's total healing when he has alot of vengeance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •