Holy Paladin nerfs in PTR patch 5.3

[Mifuyne]

Thing is, before you are able to pick up t15 4set, wether heroic or not, think with the old tier set nerf it will be a massive impact (15% or more even).
In the end we'll have to see if this hits live or not and wether they changed something.

[Tomana]

Mhm, this is going to be quite the painful blow.
It's like they play priests and don't want another class to be at the top with 'm!

My feelings exactly. How do the paladins dare competing with disc priests >_<

[Freia]

Thing is, before you are able to pick up t15 4set, wether heroic or not, think with the old tier set nerf it will be a massive impact (15% or more even).
In the end we'll have to see if this hits live or not and wether they changed something.

I highly doubt this won't hit live. They don't like people sticking tier 14 and they are insistent that the tier 15 set bonuses are fine.

My feelings exactly. How do the paladins dare competing with disc priests >_<

Can we stop with posts like this? They add nothing to the discussion and just make everyone involved look silly considering disc priests are also getting nerfed.

[Ylera]

I'm glad they're nerfing the tier 14 bonus. It was awesome while it's lasted, but it's a bit too good and made us continue to use inferior gear just to keep it. Bad game design really. Guess I should stop passing on tier 15 tokens now.

I prefer stacking haste over mastery, so if the nerf to our mastery means haste becomes our preferred stat, I'm happy too.

By the way, I presume you guys talknig about approaching 40% mastery are gemming heavily for it? I'm 517 equipped with a lot of mastery gear (and full reforges) and am around 34% fully buffed.

[Gilthresa]

I really hope they change the t15 4 piece at least, its just so bad right now and beacon swapping makes my head hurt.

[Freia]

I'm glad they're nerfing the tier 14 bonus. It was awesome while it's lasted, but it's a bit too good and made us continue to use inferior gear just to keep it. Bad game design really. Guess I should stop passing on tier 15 tokens now.

I prefer stacking haste over mastery, so if the nerf to our mastery means haste becomes our preferred stat, I'm happy too.

By the way, I presume you guys talknig about approaching 40% mastery are gemming heavily for it? I'm 517 equipped with a lot of mastery gear (and full reforges) and am around 34% fully buffed.

No, I gem all spirit with a few hybrid gems here and there and have 37.something% mastery. If I switched my bracers to the valor ones and equipped the spirit/mastery gloves and legs I have(gloves are thunderforged) I would be about 39% mastery buffed. If I got the tier shoulders and helm and the mastery rings I am pretty sure I could get over 40% mastery while still gemming spirit.

This nerf is not big enough for haste to overtake mastery.

[Yzyz]

It means that the next holy shock will do 75/150% of the healing done.. so say you holy radiance > holy shock (1 daybreak stack) would heal for 75%, or holy radiance > holy radiance > holy shock (2 stacks of daybreak) would heal for 150%.

Very interesting. Currently, with the t14 4p, you are able to cast HS > HR > HS > HR. With the upcoming nerf, will will be switching over to t15 quicker and it will look more like HR > HR> HS > HR > HR > HS. So very likely, we will be seeing the 150% buff a lot more then we would with current T14 4p.

So, with the T15 2p, we can assume with 50% extra healing to Day Break will increase healing by 225%? That doesn't seem right but I think I did the math corrrectly there. These changes flow together pretty nicely and Day Break might actually do a decent percentage on stack fights.

I don't like the mastery nerf though :P It wasn't godly or anything. It has a high % of healing mainly because shields will always be taken before direct healing and almost all of our spells triger it. Bah, oh well, I dont believe it to be game breaking but a little peeved >.<

[Mifuyne]

By the way, I presume you guys talknig about approaching 40% mastery are gemming heavily for it? I'm 517 equipped with a lot of mastery gear (and full reforges) and am around 34% fully buffed.

Am only gemming for bonus and reforging any gear that doesnt have mastery into mastery, thats about it.
When you are able to use tier15 4set, you shouldn't notice the mastery nerf or anything.
However, it's the cliff between t14 (which will now be a lot less awesum) and t15 that will hurt.

[Ragingbeerd]

I don't see how this is a big blow to paladins.

The 2% blow to mastery is a decent hit, but in the end it's not that bad. With everyone switching from their t14 ilvl496-517 to their t15 522+ gear stats that will be acquired from the new gear will offset this nerf. The new daybreak mechanic will heal for huge amounts on stack fights like megeara and iron qon. HR>HR>HS = 150% daybreak huge heals. 2 Paladins in your 25 man raid will do insane stack healing with the t15 set bonus.

Correct me if i'm wrong about these things but I feel like I have a valid argument.

[Kaeth]

The 75%/150% what does it mean specificly? That if we let it stack to 2 one of them will get 75% and the other 150%? Or is it just random?

Also with the 1.5% to 1.25% changes and the 2% nerf to iluminated.. Lets say you had 30% mastery how much less would u get?

The 1.5%->1.25% change and the 2% reduction are the same change. With a few exceptions, "base" mastery for every class/spec has been equivalent to 8 "mastery points" since the inception of the mastery stat.

Your 30% will drop to exactly 25%. Just take whatever you have now and multiply by 0.833 ("repeating, of course").

Every 600 Mastery Rating now grants you 1.25% Illuminated Healing, which means 480 Mastery Rating is needed for 1%. Previously, 400 Mastery Rating gave 1% IH. Haste Rating scales at a rate of 425:1% at level 90, so, at a glance, it may be tempting to assume that haste now "scales better than mastery," having gone from 6% behind to 13% ahead.

But mastery gains to throughput continue to be mana neutral, while haste inevitably drains your blue bar faster if you're to derive any noticeable benefit from it. Furthermore, Illuminated Healing usually generates very little overhealing.

I don't see Mastery Rating falling behind on the stat priority list any time soon.

[Corrupt]

Daybreak buff in 10m yay. Big nerf to the absorb but no overall buff to heals?. I hope this isnt final. I know were in a good place atm. But pretty much because of the way absorbs works and the pve 4pc (and pvp 4pc before 5.2..).

The t15 2pc and 4pc set bonus seems like alot more work then they actually give. Very few fights feels like Holy Radiance is worth the mana cost to stack Daybreak. (i guess this is pretty much a 10m problem aswell, some fights dont allow me to melee boss for SoI procs, neither do you always raid with a resto shaman that gives mana tide or priest that have mana hymn)

The mobility t14 4pc and pvp 4pc gave was rather nice, healing in cataclysm wasnt bad but the fact you where spamming heals back then instead of instant heals made you pretty "stuck". Atleast back then you had alot of haste to reduce the cast time..

Only good thing is that these nerfs are for 5.3. Maybe we get buffed again for the new raid tier in 5.4!

[Lavalashlol]

Basically bliz is nerfing our mastery levels back to t14 levels assuming decent gear, full 522. Overall you'll pick up more spirit and if this nerf hits our healing too hard, say 6% mastery for me. I could afford more hybrid mastery gems in favor of spirit since my raid has good mana cd's.

[Pasture]

I don't see how this is a big blow to paladins.

The 2% blow to mastery is a decent hit, but in the end it's not that bad.

Base mastery scaling was also nerfed. The end result is about a 15% mastery nerf for Paladins not avoiding mastery (as a percentage of what you had that is). On a fight where mastery accounts for 30% of my healing my overall healing output will drop by almost 5%. That's a hefty chunk.

It will hurt 10 man Paladins more since mastery works to better effect in 10s and the Daybreak buff won't be felt as much (in 25 you can always AoE the melee).

---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 07:26 PM ----------

I prefer stacking haste over mastery, so if the nerf to our mastery means haste becomes our preferred stat, I'm happy too.

You shouldn't be happy. You might stack haste but your overall healing will drop as a result of the mastery nerf.

[nightfalls]

The new daybreak mechanic will heal for huge amounts on stack fights like megeara and iron qon. HR>HR>HS = 150% daybreak huge heals. 2 Paladins in your 25 man raid will do insane stack healing with the t15 set bonus.

Correct me if i'm wrong about these things but I feel like I have a valid argument.

Daybreak is a lot more underwhelming than you think while the nerf to mastery is more overwhelming than you think.

[Lumineux]

People are overreacting to the mastery nerf. It was expected and it's not even that big of a nerf - 2%. I'm not worried about it. Its just a bit of control on the scaling of mastery.

I'm much more interested in this daybreak change. It will definitely make our 2 piece tier 15 much more attractive. With 2 stacks of daybreak it will be 200% healing on holy shock and it's subsequent aoe. Potentially very good.

[Xs]

People are overreacting to the mastery nerf. It was expected and it's not even that big of a nerf - 2%. I'm not worried about it. Its just a bit of control on the scaling of mastery.

I'm much more interested in this daybreak change. It will definitely make our 2 piece tier 15 much more attractive. With 2 stacks of daybreak it will be 200% healing on holy shock and it's subsequent aoe. Potentially very good.

2 stack daybreak = 225% of the Holy Shock

Overall the changes are better than expected really, we'll still easily be competitive and should still be in the top spot(s)

[Kaeth]

People are overreacting to the mastery nerf. It was expected and it's not even that big of a nerf - 2%. I'm not worried about it.

No, it's a 16.67% nerf to mastery and, as previously stated, a 5-6% nerf to overall healing throughput.

[Elapsed]

I must have missed the memo about base mastery scaling changes, can someone provide a link about this?

[Kyuuseishu]

I must have missed the memo about base mastery scaling changes, can someone provide a link about this?

They haven't out right stated it, its just obvious from the change. Read a few of the other posts for the reasoning about the scaling change rather than just a flat 2% decrease. It has been posted several times I'm sure ^^

But as a side note:

Every change that is done to mastery is a direct buff or nerf to the scaling of sed mastery per mastery "point" which is 600 rating. So considering they've reduced our base mastery %, that implies a nerf to the mastery scaling per mastery "point".

[Pasture]

Makes a change to Cata when they nerfed us every patch by increasing our mana costs. I suspect mastery will be the patch tweaking tool now.

And much like Cata they're still playing about with our AoE.

It seems like they just have trouble with Paladin scaling in expansions and still don't fully know what they want from our AoE healing.