If you're innovative and talented enough - You don't need to worry about Streams

[Mowg]

Don't stop/complain about other guilds (that have nothing to do with you) streaming Ra-den because they're catering to their fanbase. That's their prerogative, not yours.

If you're innovative, talented and deserving enough then the general public (and other guilds that have not yet/just reached Ra-den) watching a certain guild attempt Ra-den should be none of your concern, because you're supposed to be good enough to rise above that. You are essentially denying competition.

If you don't like competition, don't race for World First.

Clarification: <Depraved> started streaming their Ra-den attempts via Twitch. On the chat, a certain officer of a certain guild participating in the Ra-den race complained to Depraved and basically told them to stop streaming. The guild complied and now the stream is unavailable to the general public.

[Anjerith]

Can't you just make these rants in guild chat? Seems like sort of a dead-end topic on a forum.

[Deleted]

Dunno why that streamer guy even listened to some random people on his stream. I'd just ban them and move on streaming the boss, hell... we've currently over 10 or so guilds progressing on him.

[Oratory]

Wasn't he killed already? race is over. Who cares what strategies "leak" out before it's refined and mainstream?

[Deleted]

That certain officer of a certain guild was Riggnaros of Blood Legion btw.

And I agree wholeheartedly that it was a demeaning thing to do.

[Moshots]

That certain officer of a certain guild was Riggnaros of Blood Legion btw.

And I agree wholeheartedly that it was a demeaning thing to do.

The funny thing is he lost the race. Method has world first. What is he scared his 22 hour a night nolife guild will lose to 6 hour a night midwinter?

[Brakthir]

The funny thing is he lost the race. Method has world first. What is he scared his 22 hour a night nolife guild will lose to 6 hour a night midwinter?

Dude, really? I'm so sick of these nolife comments. If you have nothing constructive to say and only resort to trite tropes, don't bother hitting the post button.

[Deleted]

well i can understand that for the spirit of competition amongst the top guilds you shouldnt stream during attempts when the race is still on.
however if someone won then it shouldnt matter anymore, although i suspose they want number 2 too figure it out themself before releasing the video so they dnt copy them. suspose same logic could be applied too the stream.
but to be honest i havent been following the race at all so i have no idea how many have cleared it so far so as far i care. stream all you want :P

[Xl House lX]

Don't stop/complain about other guilds (that have nothing to do with you) streaming Ra-den because they're catering to their fanbase. That's their prerogative, not yours.

If you're innovative, talented and deserving enough then the general public (and other guilds that have not yet/just reached Ra-den) watching a certain guild attempt Ra-den should be none of your concern, because you're supposed to be good enough to rise above that. You are essentially denying competition.

If you don't like competition, don't race for World First.

Clarification: <Depraved> started streaming their Ra-den attempts via Twitch. On the chat, a certain officer of a certain guild participating in the Ra-den race complained to Depraved and basically told them to stop streaming. The guild complied and now the stream is unavailable to the general public.

What I don't understand is why do people watch streams in the first place? Is it just me or is watching someone else play a game you like (when you have the ability to play said game) just silly and redundant?

Its one thing to watch a tutorial on Youtube to make yourself better, its another to watch someone else eat food and play your game live, when instead you could be playing your game. I don't think I will ever understand the streaming community.

Now, if your watching a tournament or a charity stream or something meaningful and purposeful, that makes a little sense to me... but to watch someone sit around and do nothing... especially when you could be playing said game... is just mind boggling to me.

But on topic, stop bitching over something so trivial... like someone said before theres no discussion to really be had. It just sounds like a complaint/welcome mat for trolls.

[Snuzzfizzle]

Is there a VoD of them attempting Ra-Den available?

[Moshots]

Dude, really? I'm so sick of these nolife comments. If you have nothing constructive to say and only resort to trite tropes, don't bother hitting the post button.

Wasn't referring to guilds like yours only raiding 20 hours a week. was only referring to BL and maybe exodus who raided like 80 hour raid weeks. Even midwinter only did like 40-50 hour raid week 1-2 then went back to there normal 4-5 day 5 hour raid schedule.

[eschatological]

Typically it's common etiquette to not stream/post kill videos of a boss which hasn't been killed by 2 or 3 guilds yet. U.S. 1st is still a thing, and 10 man 1st (which is what Depraved is going for) is still up for grabs, and those are pretty big things to say about your guild.

Of course, etiquette != mandatory, but that's been the general feeling. Guilds like Midwinter haven't followed that in the past, but in general they've been just behind that top 3.

[Kalmah]

Typically it's common etiquette to not stream/post kill videos of a boss which hasn't been killed by 2 or 3 guilds yet. U.S. 1st is still a thing, and 10 man 1st (which is what Depraved is going for) is still up for grabs, and those are pretty big things to say about your guild.

Of course, etiquette != mandatory, but that's been the general feeling. Guilds like Midwinter haven't followed that in the past, but in general they've been just behind that top 3.

Who the fuck cares about etiquette ? It's hilarious that Riggnaros of all people would complain about a 10-man guild streaming anything, after all these posts saying it's not the same race and that it's not comparable.

[Deleted]

Who the fuck cares about etiquette ? It's hilarious that Riggnaros of all people would complain about a 10-man guild streaming anything, after all these posts saying it's not the same race and that it's not comparable.

Agree, it seems that the people involved in the world firsts just say it in order to emphasize their own achievements, but then secretly still ache to beat all 10man guilds / Paragon. That is hypocrisy I believe?

[Deleted]

Why am I not surprised it was Rigg? Whenever I hear about him it's because he's foaming at the mouth over some petty problem he has with another guild.

[eschatological]

Who the fuck cares about etiquette ? It's hilarious that Riggnaros of all people would complain about a 10-man guild streaming anything, after all these posts saying it's not the same race and that it's not comparable.

If I was in Paragon I might be upset, since the 10 man race is still up for grabs. I don't know Rigg personally, but from what I know of him *on these forums* he's always been about the purity of the race and real competition, and it doesn't strike me as odd that he'd be upset with the race being streamed before it was over, even if it wasn't the bracket he plays in.

That being said, it's also bit disingenuous, on this boss in particular, to say 25 man guilds have no interest in whether a 10 man guild is streaming it. The single most limiting factor on this boss is the fact that he wasn't on the PTR or the dungeon journal and people don't know what he does, combined with the 30 attempt limit. Presumably, the mechanics are the same in 10 and 25, so streaming it on 10 helps 25 man raiders who don't understand the mechanics yet and haven't put in the time to learn them like the people ahead of them might. If this was an execution fight, sure, maybe it's a bit overboard, but this is a fight about learning the mechanics, being good with your attempts, and not wasting attempts. If a guild who killed Lei Shen yesterday, for example, could see a stream today of all the p1/p2 abilities and then just mimic them, that detracts from the race.

[Deleted]

If I was in Paragon I might be upset, since the 10 man race is still up for grabs. I don't know Rigg personally, but from what I know of him *on these forums* he's always been about the purity of the race and real competition, and it doesn't strike me as odd that he'd be upset with the race being streamed before it was over, even if it wasn't the bracket he plays in.

That being said, it's also bit disingenuous, on this boss in particular, to say 25 man guilds have no interest in whether a 10 man guild is streaming it. The single most limiting factor on this boss is the fact that he wasn't on the PTR or the dungeon journal and people don't know what he does, combined with the 30 attempt limit. Presumably, the mechanics are the same in 10 and 25, so streaming it on 10 helps 25 man raiders who don't understand the mechanics yet and haven't put in the time to learn them like the people ahead of them might. If this was an execution fight, sure, maybe it's a bit overboard, but this is a fight about learning the mechanics, being good with your attempts, and not wasting attempts. If a guild who killed Lei Shen yesterday, for example, could see a stream today of all the p1/p2 abilities and then just mimic them, that detracts from the race.

But if this was the case wouldnt that just crush the whole 10 and 25 is like basketball and football because you dont learn football while watching basketball do you? The hypocracy of the people that doesnt believe in an overall race commenting negatively on the streaming of ra-den is just to fun to be true. Note: I am against streaming this because as stated in the above post ra-den is a boss with barely any info to it before you actually get to him.

[CausalXXLinkXx]

I support streaming. You're letting a ton of people who won't get the chance to see this boss for a very very long time the opportunity to see it. Stop being buthurt.

[Viscoe]

-snip-

I probably won't see Ra-Den - or Lei Shen in even Normal mode - until next expansion. Some of us who can't get into good guilds like to see people killing the bosses anyway, just because it's fun.

Also you aren't watching the person. Unless you're some sort of stalker I guess? Or unless you're looking for their reaction to something that happened.

[Reptar]

A lot of these comments are hilarious. None of you may care about etiquette or the common courtesy that all of the top guilds typically display, but there sure do. If that doesn't mesh with your personal perception of how it should be handled that is fine, but it's pretty ridiculous to chastise a raid leader/guild for wanting to follow etiquette that all the top guilds always follow.