Guild application forms

[Exol]

I personally think those are some strange questions, but I do see the purpose of Guild Apps. One is, like many have said, a laziness check, and on top of that you can tell the motivation a player has based on their response. If its some half-assed thing, they're obviously not serious about raiding, and in most cases just want to be carried.

Asking for a UI is pretty dumb imo. As long as they can perform who cares what they have on their screen, its their account, they're not going to change it up so other people can be comfortable with it. Such a stupid and close minded question.

Our guild has quite a number of questions (16 to be exact), but half of them are short 1 word questions.
Like;
1-3 are, your name, age and character/spec.
4-6 are your professions (if you have a gathering profession most people write that they're changing it to a crafting), armory link, and if you're willing to respec to the better spec
7-9, gearing/reforging/gemming strat, WoL link, and if you have Vent
10-12, internet connection type (not sure why we still have this question), our raiding schedule and if you can make said times, and previous raiding experience (ie: saying 5/8 H DS, 8/16H MSV..ect)
13-16, Previous guilds and reason you left (mainly applies to people on our server), how did you hear about us, why do you want to join us and why do we want you in our guild

I don't know about you guys, but i'm sure anyone with half a decent brain could fill that out in less than 10 minutes. Anyone can say: "Hey I want to raid".
Guild apps are a way to see if someone is willing and knowledgeable about their class. If you don't want to fill an app out, then don't.

[Sunnydruid]

Do some guilds really still require you to fill out applications? Lol what is this, signing up for a job? It's amazing how serious some people take this game. Unless this guild is like some pro team that goes for MLG or something I find this whole guild application thing quite ridiculous. The guild I'm in clear raids new and old and I never had to fill out an application for them I just asked, got invited and I joined. Last time I checked, WoW was a computer game not a job.

You show much ignorance on this.

People take video games in different ways, a lot of people want to be the top at everything they do.

for a lot of hardcore guilds, they raid 15+ hours a week for progression. You don't want to raid 15 hours a week with people who don't take it seriously at all, that leads to regression, not progression. So while you may take your gaming more casually, a lot of people don't and they want to play with people who feel the same way. Your post is asking for someone to troll you, but I figured I would just kindly tell you that you are being very ignorant. You think your way others think their way.\

As for everyone else who is complaining about recruitment app questions.
When you get into top 50+ guilds things like UI actually do matter significantly, you can't have 90% of your screen cluttered with every addon known to man and honestly say you are min-maxing yourself as a player. Knowing questions like, what ISP you have what is your pping ect is useful for knowing what kind of impact you are going to take if you, say , raid for 5 hours straight one night. Things like knowing your work sched is very obvious, it's not like you have to give the address of your employer or anything, just a basic 9-5 mon-fri type deal works.

Don't take these app questions so personally, it seems like some of you are getting very disgruntled by this. If that is the case, then maybe hardcore raiding isn't suitable for yourself, if you take the time to fill out a 20 question app w/ logs-screenshots ect then it shows the beginning of your dedication.

I hope this cleared some things up for people. Please don't take my post as insulting or anything like that. Just trying to give you guys who seem to be getting angry or annoyed over apps a clearer view on things.

The UI question is always a bit far fetched but if you REALLY think about it, with hardcore guilds, it is a very useful thing to add.

[Neetz]

Anyone can make their UI look awesome. Doesn't mean they're going to be a pro player.

[eschatological]

I guess it's not just the application forms but the whole mentality of raiding in general. Most people seem to treat Wow like a job, running a guild like a firm and I think that's where the problem lies.

The truth is that even heroic raids require little more than "just some guys". Anyone can learn raid tactics, anyone can get gear, anyone can experience the fights and at the end of the day that is all you need. But this strange culture of pseudo skill and wannabe elitist attitude has been passed down from those few "top" guilds and been adopted by the majority and people have come to believe that it's impossible to raid without imitating them.

You don't need addons, you don't need custom UIs, you don't need special keybinds, gaming mice, logs or simulations and you don't need to treat the game like a company... or a chore. All of that is optional customization, and none of that makes a player "good".

I know of guilds that demand all of those things and never make it past normal modes, and I've been in guilds that didn't care about any of it and stormed through heroics -- that is why I see it as fluff, as meaningless information that has no bearing whatsoever on how good or bad a player may be. And to be honest, I don't want to raid with people who think so.

Have you raided heroic modes since Cataclysm? Because your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs aren't really true. Sure, you could do most of the game with the standard UI, but the standard UI organizes information AWFULLY, and not optimizing it actually, physically, hinders your performance. I find it somehow dubious that you've been in guilds which "stormed through heroics" which didn't require certain addons or had some standard for their raiders.

Edit: Maybe it's because I came up gaming in the 80s and 90s, but I find people who say "LOL WHAT IS THIS A JOB?" to be somewhat comical. I obviously don't consider WoW a job. We raid 12 hours a week, 3 nights a week, and we've cleared heroic mode/the hardest difficulty of every raid before the next patch since SWP. Fun is defined in different ways. We define it by being professional, respectful of people's time (because we're all adults have shit to do), and getting shit done in-game. We do it by organizing, researching, and working together. We don't have fun when someone wastes what little time we do have to play the game by not knowing/caring enough to know about the fights we're doing, because they're hard enough already without being prepared.

[Deleted]

I obviously don't consider WoW a job.l

We define it by being professional

Yeah right.

One thing I don't get how almost every guild demands gear and experience that are impossible to get unless you are already in a similarly progressed guild. I thought it was the guilds job to gear their recruits, at least that's how it was before. And then they f*cking complain on forums how hard it is to find new raiders.

[TJ]

Yeah right.

One thing I don't get how almost every guild demands gear and experience that are impossible to get unless you are already in a similarly progressed guild. I thought it was the guilds job to gear their recruits, at least that's how it was before. And then they f*cking complain on forums how hard it is to find new raiders.

Agree, but that's the same as the current job market ;D You need experience but you can't get experience unless you have/have had a job. These types of application forms are how you distinguish yourself from others and persuade the guild to take YOU and not them. It's the same as needing a good CV/interview to get a job obviously just in the game world so not as serious, but still something a lot of people (including me take seriously). It comes down to being competitive.

You will find a guild if you eventually keep looking. In Wrath I was on an RP realm in a 3500+ ranked guild, we didn't even kill Lich King with the 30% buff and couldn't even get far into the fight. It was a cool guild but I wanted more progression so I applied to loads of 50-200 ranked guilds, with so much of a jump in rankings from my previous guild, I needed the best application ever. I could tell I wasn't even being looked at because of being from an RP realm and everyone immediately thinks "bad player", yet I was easily good enough. Then I finally found a guild that looked at my application and I was in luck, they were rank 150ish and they trialed me. Went in for my first raid after a month or so on Heroic Nefarian and I was promoted the same night, I stayed with that guild to the end and they only recently disbanded, I even had offers from two top 10 raiding guilds.
That's my ramble over but it all came from putting a lot of effort into my application form.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 11:20 AM ----------

Have you raided heroic modes since Cataclysm? Because your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs aren't really true. Sure, you could do most of the game with the standard UI, but the standard UI organizes information AWFULLY, and not optimizing it actually, physically, hinders your performance. I find it somehow dubious that you've been in guilds which "stormed through heroics" which didn't require certain addons or had some standard for their raiders.

I've used standard ui since I started playing the game, tried things like Bartender and a few other ones but I didn't like them. Ofc I use other addons with it and not the standard ui on its own, but it's nowhere near as bad as people say. I raided all through Wrath and Cata with it and had 0 problems.

[HardCoder]

I've used standard ui since I started playing the game, tried things like Bartender and a few other ones but I didn't like them. Ofc I use other addons with it and not the standard ui on its own, but it's nowhere near as bad as people say. I raided all through Wrath and Cata with it and had 0 problems.

It's ironic that fancy addons are most likely to be broken during the first week or two of an expansion or patch going live.

Now, I haven't heard a top 10 guild complain that "because X addon was broken for a few days we were held up" but it is the case that addons have to be hastily patched around the time of new patches for various reasons.

Addons are great but on the other hand when they are broken or abandoned by their creators or whatever they are also a huge fucking nuisance.

There's a reason I mostly edit in vi, almost 30 years after I first started using it. It's everywhere, and it works the same, and it always works.

[Amerissis]

1-3 are, your name, age

Why do they need to know real life information like that? My name is Amerissis, my age is 7. I never give my real name (age I do sometimes share).

[Vaelorian]

On the subject of addons: I only demanded (when I was GM) that people use DBM. The rest was up to them.

As for myself: I have Bartender/Recount(or Skada)/Grid(I'm a healer)/something to do with castbars - the rest to me is not required - but could be nice if your performance (the pc) has no issues with it.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 10:58 AM ----------

Why do they need to know real life information like that? My name is Amerissis, my age is 7. I never give my real name (age I do sometimes share).

Information like that (speaking as a former GM/recruitment officer) is needed to decide if you would fit into the guild. My guild consisted of people that were 28+. If I would add someone that is 14 it would be awkward at times. The person who is 14 would likely not have such a great time in the guild due to not understanding jokes or think he/she him/herself would be funny while actually being very immature - which is only logical.

PLUS (very big plus) > teens are usually very unreliable (exceptions are there but those are well... THE EXCEPTION)

edit: you could ofcourse lie on that application. But trust me when I say that you will be found out eventually. The way people talk is a dead give away of their age - you could quote a movie from the 80ies and people who are 14 would not have a clue for example. And that is just what it is... an example. I am not going to write a guide as to how you can easily determine someones age in WoW.

It comes down to this: It will not be a mutual pleasant experience if people lie on their application. Simply because it never ends well for both parties.

[Nobleshield]

I usually don't mind apps, but I do agree that a lot of guilds seem to treat the game as a second job. Basic things like give us a log, screenshot of UI, explain briefly what your normal rotation is, why do you gem the way you do, etc. is okay, but I would have a problem with huge applications. This is a game for enjoyment, not a job. A guild is not a company although many guilds are run like one. Would you have a lengthy interview/application process for someone wanting to join your bowling league? Your D&D group? Not in most usual circumstances, yet raiding tends to hover in that gray area between something fun to do and "serious business".

The only thing I never liked was the idea that you needed the current experience/gear to get into any decent guild, but if you're a returning player or had a string of bad guilds you won't have that so it's much harder to get noticed as you have no "cred". If you quit when MoP launched and just came back now, you're going to be in for a rough time trying to get into any good guild because you won't have any T14/T15 experience (perhaps outside of LFR).

At least now with BattleTag/RealID it's not that difficult for a guild to trial you without you paying to go to their realm and everything. Just add you on Battletag, give you a trial, and then you only transfer if you make the cut.

[Vaelorian]

Real name information on the other hand is pointless and I would never ask nor give my real name unless I trusted them enough. But still I like to be called: Vael ingame or Vaelorian. I never respond to my real name ingame tbh. I absolutely hate that. Never understood people who call eachother by their real name ingame. It takes away a part of (my) immersion.

----
And again regarding these people who say: I don't want WoW to be like a job so I hate applications.... (or those weird demanding ones) - look for another guild. You wouldn't fit with those players anyway. Your mindset isn't like theirs and well that is fine.... so do not take it as a personal rejection. Look for one who you do like in terms of application processes.

It is like: Holy cow that guild demands that their members farm hours on end to bring mats for flasks and food etc etc... what kind of management would ask that??????!!??!?!?! This is not a job!!!!!

Yes well those players enjoy doing that. So let them do that. I wouldn't join such a guild in a million years. And have no issues with those guilds existing. Why should you make a big deal about it?

[Deleted]

I usually don't mind apps, but I do agree that a lot of guilds seem to treat the game as a second job. Basic things like give us a log, screenshot of UI, explain briefly what your normal rotation is, why do you gem the way you do, etc. is okay, but I would have a problem with huge applications. This is a game for enjoyment, not a job. A guild is not a company although many guilds are run like one. Would you have a lengthy interview/application process for someone wanting to join your bowling league? Your D&D group? Not in most usual circumstances, yet raiding tends to hover in that gray area between something fun to do and "serious business".

It's like in the army. People who are otherwise unsuccessful in life have at least one place where they can act like big bosses.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

In my experience, people that can't be bothered to take 10 minutes to apply to my guild won't be bothered to spend 5 minutes reading up on a new boss, and thus slowing down progress by making unnecessary mistakes.

[Vaelorian]

In my experience, people that can't be bothered to take 10 minutes to apply to my guild won't be bothered to spend 5 minutes reading up on a new boss, and thus slowing down progress by making unnecessary mistakes.

As a fellow (former) GM I can do nothing but agree with that statement. While this might not be true for everyone, it certainly weeds out a lot of people I would never bump to memberstatus

[Maelle]

I might expect to answer very detailed questions like the OPs if I was joining a decently ranked guild, for your everyday normal mode / couple of hc mode guild... not so much (you know those really mediocre/bad progress guilds that have these huge delusions of grandeur in their application questions).

Oh - and the screenshot of UI is a pretty obvious - "is this guy keybinding" check for most guilds (the UI description not so much)

[Swifty12345]

To OP: IMO, personal information in apps are just there for formalities. Or it could be a way to meet up for guild parties irl or something (most guilds prob don't, but I know some does). In terms of filling out an application to apply for a guild, it really is to just weed out the bad/impatient players imo since no guilds would ever want to carry someone unless they're friends or alts. Also, like ppl that posted before, you can tell so much about the player just by reading what he wrote in the application and as a GM/Officer, it's their job to make sure whoever the applicant is, their attitude can match their guild.

[TJ]

In my experience, people that can't be bothered to take 10 minutes to apply to my guild won't be bothered to spend 5 minutes reading up on a new boss, and thus slowing down progress by making unnecessary mistakes.

Indeed, it doesn't take long to write a good, detailed application. A detailed application explaining your playstyle and your class always favours you, if they can't be bothered to do that then they're not even worth trialing.

[Neetz]

If you want a hard core guild expect hard core questions. Chances are the guild is run and contains a lot of players dedicated to just that with a possessive obsession to check WoL and other similar websites daily. They will want to know your PC specs, your macros, how often you take a toilet break and etc etc.
If you want a casual guild then go for one that has less questions, or even better one that doesn't require an application. A chat to a few members over Skype or Vent should be enough.

[Lemons]

The whole detailing your UI and ALL the macros you use, that's not normal. Explaining your rotation in different situations is pretty standard. It's just a noob-check. If a paladin answers that question with "I spam Flash of Light!" it's safe to say you've got a noob on your hands.

One thing I would try is fill out the app, but don't list ALL your macros, maybe just a few, and just explain the main addons you use, their positioning on your screen, and why they're important. Answer the spirit of the question without getting into all that unnecessary bullshit. If they get all persnickety and say *nerd voice* "well you didn't submit an annotated screenshot like we asked." Then you probably don't want to be in that guild anyways.

[Deleted]

Yes it's probaly a bit much (the macros and explaining the UI)
The rest doesn't seem out of order, and you have to understand howmany terrible apps from people you get.

If a person can't take some time for his "first meeting" with the guild, it doesn't look like a very positive attitude.

But there's always LFR as mentioned