Why does everyone treat the horde rebelion like it's an "internal matter"..

[Deleted]

This whole rebellion is so forced it's not even funny. Blizzard is desperate to make the Horde hate Garrosh, but so far achieves it by making the Horde races a bunch of traitorous, whining douchebags.

I very much agree. I still don't see what's so wrong with Garrosh.

The Trolls had it coming for standing with Vol'jin as he continuously threatened his superior and commited insubordination. Vol'jin just has an issue with authority and acts as if everyone should follow his lead. Did we ever saw Vol'jin discussing with others? No we didn't, Vol'jin just hammers his own point in pure arrogance. And the rest are just whiners that don't really have a good reason but Blizzard includes them anyway.

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 06:39 PM ----------

Its not so much skill, more brute strength and mass

Well, you're right that pure mass is also important. But an Orc goes through a lot more training than the average human. Orcs are basically bred for combat.
That's what I was aiming at mostly. Though I guess for Tauren they have to rely more on their size and strength since they don't have the spartan-esque training.

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 06:40 PM ----------

Furthermore this expansions focus was supposed to be about the war between the horde/alliance and not about the inner turmoils of the horde.

I agree we've been lied to, I haven't seen much of a war between the Horde and Alliance. Jade Forest was just monkeys and fish people going at eachother.

Is this grand war we've been promised simply 5.1? Because while that is a battle, I wouldn't call it anywhere close to a war. Cataclysm saw more combat than that.

[Deleted]

Smaller populations don't mean shit to the Horde. They either excell in combat far above any Alliance fighters or they fight dirty.

The plague used by the Forsaken? Good luck fighting that with your superior numbers. You will just make it easy for them.
The Tauren and Orcs? Good luck fighting them even if you do outnumber them 3 to 1. They are much more skilled warriors.

If the Horde actually works together, they can stomp the Alliance without much competition.

It has been that way since Warcraft 1. Sacking of Stormwind? They worked together. Warcraft 2 almost saw total Horde victory on the doorsteps of Lordaeron, but then they started fighting themselves when Gul'dan pulled back a portion of the army to search for the Tomb of Sargeras, so the Alliance had a shot to crawl back to their feet and eventually win. Warcraft 3 saw the Horde at their weakest though, like the Alliance before it they had to crawl back on their feet, but as time progressed they've gotten to the strength of the past again.

Problem was that while the Horde worked together, the Alliance of Lordaeron didn't. Gilneas for example didn't do shit trough the 3 wars. The Alliance kingdoms fell one by one, not being able to form a combined effort against the horde.

[Kantoro]

Why does everyone make threads with the words why does everyone in it? It is NEVER, EVER everyone's opinion.

[Deathgoose]

Eh, as others have pointed out:

The Horde Rebellion IS a Horde internal matter, since the Alliance, by definition, can't 'rebel' against any faction of the Horde. That is why 5.3 will likely not be very satisfying for Alliance players, because at its core it really is a Horde patch, and any Alliance involvement is going to be seen as second tier content developed as an after thought, because no content would be worse.

The Siege of Orgrimmar in 5.4, however, will not be an internal matter. The events that led up to that are completely beyond the scope of Vol'jin and his antics. THAT better have more Alliance content than a fucking robot cat, but, meh, we'll see.

[Deleted]

The rebellion itself is an internal matter. It's a rebellion. Inside the Horde.

[Deleted]

Why does everyone make threads with the words why does everyone in it? It is NEVER, EVER everyone's opinion.

It's called exaggeration, and its made so that it catches the eye of the viewer.

Why do few people treat the .... etc. dosent seem like a good thread title. And it would be too big.

The rebellion itself is an internal matter. It's a rebellion. Inside the Horde.

Tell this to Vol'Jin. He is the one that seeks help from alliance and makes this, by definition, NOT an internal matter.

[Dreknar20]

Problem was that while the Horde worked together, the Alliance of Lordaeron didn't. Gilneas for example didn't do shit trough the 3 wars. The Alliance kingdoms fell one by one, not being able to form a combined effort against the horde.

pretty sure Gilneas helped the Alliance, albet reluctantly
Only Alliance internal conflict during the Second War was Alterac

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 07:24 PM ----------

I agree we've been lied to, I haven't seen much of a war between the Horde and Alliance. Jade Forest was just monkeys and fish people going at eachother.

Is this grand war we've been promised simply 5.1? Because while that is a battle, I wouldn't call it anywhere close to a war. Cataclysm saw more combat than that.

Here Here
Horde players are looking at killing more Horde than Alliance during this x-pac, not something Im very fond of doing

[Deleted]

pretty sure Gilneas helped the Alliance, albet reluctantly
Only Alliance internal conflict during the Second War was Alterac

Yeah, Alterac did want to help the horde for some reason too. Gilneas constructed a wall and didn't want to care. What litthe help was sent by them was negligible.

[Dreknar20]

Yeah, Alterac did want to help the horde for some reason too. Gilneas constructed a wall and didn't want to care. What litthe help was sent by them was negligible.

Well didnt the king if Alterac think Horde victory was an assured thing, so he was tryin to secure future for himself, plus I think Black Dragon manipulation was involved

And wsnt the Gilnean wall built after the Second War?

The Alliance was more or less presenting a united front against the Horde during the Second War. It was only after their victory did the Alliance start to falter, since the whole reason for them to even unite was now gone.

[Deleted]

Well didnt the king if Alterac think Horde victory was an assured thing, so he was tryin to secure future for himself, plus I think Black Dragon manipulation was involved

And wsnt the Gilnean wall built after the Second War?

The Alliance was more or less presenting a united front against the Horde during the Second War. It was only after their victory did the Alliance start to falter, since the whole reason for them to even unite was now gone.

This was so long ago i cant even remember correctly.
I'm old. Tho i wish theese times to come back. Storywriting was good back then. No ridiculous mana-boms or flying ships (except zeppelins)...

[Darmalus]

This was so long ago i cant even remember correctly.
I'm old. Tho i wish theese times to come back. Storywriting was good back then. No ridiculous mana-boms or flying ships (except zeppelins)...

Blizzard has been chowing down on the poison fruit known as super weapons and world ending threats for a while now. It's undermining the story in a lot of ways.

[Deleted]

Why does everyone make threads that start with "Why does everyone.."?

No..not everyone does...

I replied to the same question a lil'bit above.
For your convenience i will quote it

It's called exaggeration, and its made so that it catches the eye of the viewer.

Why do few people treat the .... etc. dosent seem like a good thread title. And it would be too big.

[Deleted]

When SoO hits, Alliance will surely start the raid by sea, at least according to 5.3 soundfiles.

[huth]

Tell this to Vol'Jin. He is the one that seeks help from alliance and makes this, by definition, NOT an internal matter.

An internal matter does not become an external matter just because one side is getting outside help.

[Deleted]

An internal matter does not become an external matter just because one side is getting outside help.

Dosen't it?
I think it does...

[Dreknar20]

Blizzard has been chowing down on the poison fruit known as super weapons and world ending threats for a while now. It's undermining the story in a lot of ways.

well the game is about us heroes taking down these powerful beings and all, dsnt world ending threats fit into that well?

[Darmalus]

well the game is about us heroes taking down these powerful beings and all, dsnt world ending threats fit into that well?

A world-ending threat is great if it's the end of the game. If we had known that Blizzard was ending WoW with Cata, then DW would be a plausible threat because we might lose (the game is ending, after all).

If you know it's not the end of the game, then by definition you can't lose. Because losing ends the game.

I think one of the things that made Theramore resonate so strongly was that we (the players) LOST. And we didn't lose invisibly between expansions the way Camp T and Southshore were lost. You got front row tickets to the consequences of the heroes failing. And in the end, it only worked because it didn't end the world.

Weapons and people that can end the world (Deathwing, Algalon) or single highhandedly annihilate the other faction (Jaina) are not real threats because they end the game. They either can't be used, or will fail/be defeated. And it robs the story of impact.

[Dreknar20]

If you know it's not the end of the game, then by definition you can't lose. Because losing ends the game.

Well thats not somethin characters in Azeroth would know

It makes sense to me, that this crazy, powerful thing is causing havoc, worlds going to shit everywhere and its only the player that can save the world

The more desperate the situation, the more like heroes a player can feel defeating it

[Darmalus]

Well thats not somethin characters in Azeroth would know

It makes sense to me, that this crazy, powerful thing is causing havoc, worlds going to shit everywhere and its only the player that can save the world

The more desperate the situation, the more like heroes a player can feel defeating it

Maybe for you. Maybe I'm too jaded. Maybe I'm not the target audience.

To me, DW was just another dragon. Admittedly an awesome looking dragon made out of armor platting and lava, but just a dragon. Threatening to destroy the world had simply been admiting my inevitable victory, I was just there as a witness.

Theramore. Theramore hit me like no raid boss ever has (except the Essence of Anger in BT. That thing haunted my nightmares for weeks). My goblin went first, and capped his victory by watching an Alliance city explode! Then I got on my worgen, and as I queued up, it suddenly occurred to me that I was about to LOSE. Outside of BGs (which are inherently meaningless) that just didn't happen. It's left an impression on me.

[huth]

Dosen't it?
I think it does...

No, it doesn't. It's still Horde against Horde. Now, if the rebellion chose to join the Alliance as a political entity, that would be a different matter, but at that point it would also cease to be a rebellion.