Strong Hint who will kill Garrosh.

[Ramz]

First off you really shouldn't take my percentage as literal, I was obviously exaggerating. I was mostly basing that on a stereotype that I experienced back in vanilla. There use to be a troll joke that was removed from the game that was clearly a reference to smoking weed. Hence tons of potheads started playing that race because they thought it was cool/funny and Taurens because of their herbalism racial. Obviously, I know that not everyone who plays a Troll is a pot head.

And where I said that I took percentage as literal? I asked for source to back up that trolls are potheads. I have spent some time on exploring this race, and they're not really like that- it's the Jamaican accent which makes people think they do that, where they do more diverse stuff.
And i am aware of that joke aswell, but first of all the song in WoW was about killing dwarves and just becuase original was about smoking weed, that doesn't change the fact that in wow Trolls are singing about killing. Another thing is that this joke was deleted, so I don't understand how it actually count?

Hence tons of potheads started playing that race because they thought it was cool/funny and Taurens because of their herbalism racial. Obviously, I know that not everyone who plays a Troll is a pot head.

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard. While i don't deny that there might be at times connection, but I am pretty sure that potheads will roll anything which will appeal to them rather than a race that give them impression that they're alike. And I wonder if you actually have done any kind of research on this feild to make such a claims.


I personally have been playing game since TBC, but my cousin had been playing since Vanilla, he siad that trolls were one of the least played race, because racials were very unpleasnat, and only skilled gamers who knew how to play and use thier racials actually played them. And it seems to be much more true when combined with my own research. Even in WotLk they were the least played race (3%) And one of the reasons why I rolled my first troll. Every troll player I encountered was either very skilled player, or casual who don't do much, but rolled them anyway for 'cool factor'. Those troll players which I befriended with usually had either great education, or were very active people irl (one said that he was himself training cappoeira, and siad that it was main reason he rolled troll) and neither was even mentioning about smoking weed. Being at some point quite active roleplayer on my priestess, I got to know quite lot of them (sure it's not whole population of players, yet I think I can share my observations and experiences).

Second, I don't have anything against troll race as a whole. Its one of my favorite races. I just don't like Vol'jin so much. The guy that use to run ZA, Zul'jin, was one of my favorite lore characters and his story is pretty damn sad. Like I said, I never stated that all trolls are potheads and bad leaders. Its just the pothead stereotype was added by blizz during WoW. Take Belf males for example, people always call them homosexuals because of their /emotes and mannerisms in WoW. Yet in lore(WC3) Belfs where nothing alike the ones in WoW, Blizz makes stereotypes for all the races for shits & giggles. Also writers change all the time so the races keep flip-flopping personalities, same with the characters.

If they're your favourite race then you should notice that asaide from accent they don't really have anything else jamaican. And I wouldn't question you if you gave that impression. What I understood was that you put all the race to one bag for one very silly excuse, with which i disagreed.

And I love Zul'jin too, It's shame what they did to him, Troll lore is in general very impressive and yet very sad. I wish that for once we will restore at least one Empire, and I am one of those players who refuse to acknowledge Quel'whatever as elfen land- it was sacred Amani Land, for centuries, and it will always be.

I started to play as belf (noob times) and the moment I crossed trolls I felt it was a shame to kill them, and back then I did know nothing about troll and elvesn lore, and yet I still felt that there was certainly something wrong with it.

[Aucald]

I'd definitely agree you need more exemplars of the Warcraft 3 post-corruption type of Orcs - Orcs that show the independent spirit, personal honor, and even the non-Shamanic spiritual side of Orcish culture. In addition to Thrall (who was always a bit of an outsider given his heritage and upbringing in the human interment camps) you need Orcs like Saurfang, Eitrigg, Gorgonna, and perhaps Overlord Agmar to stand as a defining opposite to the "Orcs as the One True Race" direction Garrosh seems to be taking in the storyline. It's my hope that Thrall's quest to find other Orcs in Orgrimmar to stand against Garrosh leads to this eventuality, and that it doesn't come too late in the expansions storyline to be a highlight.

[Deleted]

Others have speculated the same thing. Personally, I think it will be Vol'jin.

This and I bet&hope well read about it in the book comin in June

[Fullmetal89]

And where I said that I took percentage as literal? I asked for source to back up that trolls are potheads. I have spent some time on exploring this race, and they're not really like that- it's the Jamaican accent which makes people think they do that, where they do more diverse stuff.
And i am aware of that joke aswell, but first of all the song in WoW was about killing dwarves and just becuase original was about smoking weed, that doesn't change the fact that in wow Trolls are singing about killing. Another thing is that this joke was deleted, so I don't understand how it actually count?



Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard. While i don't deny that there might be at times connection, but I am pretty sure that potheads will roll anything which will appeal to them rather than a race that give them impression that they're alike. And I wonder if you actually have done any kind of research on this feild to make such a claims.


I personally have been playing game since TBC, but my cousin had been playing since Vanilla, he siad that trolls were one of the least played race, because racials were very unpleasnat, and only skilled gamers who knew how to play and use thier racials actually played them. And it seems to be much more true when combined with my own research. Even in WotLk they were the least played race (3%) And one of the reasons why I rolled my first troll. Every troll player I encountered was either very skilled player, or casual who don't do much, but rolled them anyway for 'cool factor'. Those troll players which I befriended with usually had either great education, or were very active people irl (one said that he was himself training cappoeira, and siad that it was main reason he rolled troll) and neither was even mentioning about smoking weed. Being at some point quite active roleplayer on my priestess, I got to know quite lot of them (sure it's not whole population of players, yet I think I can share my observations and experiences).



If they're your favourite race then you should notice that asaide from accent they don't really have anything else jamaican. And I wouldn't question you if you gave that impression. What I understood was that you put all the race to one bag for one very silly excuse, with which i disagreed.

And I love Zul'jin too, It's shame what they did to him, Troll lore is in general very impressive and yet very sad. I wish that for once we will restore at least one Empire, and I am one of those players who refuse to acknowledge Quel'whatever as elfen land- it was sacred Amani Land, for centuries, and it will always be.

I started to play as belf (noob times) and the moment I crossed trolls I felt it was a shame to kill them, and back then I did know nothing about troll and elvesn lore, and yet I still felt that there was certainly something wrong with it.

You mis-interpreted what I said. Maybe its my wording but what I'm saying here is that Lore and WoW versions of races are two completely different animals. What I am saying is that the troll race as interpreted in WoW appeals to many potheads because of what I stated. Its also appealing for other people as well obviously since you seem to fall under that category. Again what I'm trying to tell you is that Blizzard has created these abhorrent and unnecessary stereotypes for certain races. Mostly for the pop-culture reference and comedy. Also I think trolls in general have less to do with Jamaicans and more to do with Aztec,Mayan civilizations but in WoW again they stereotype them as the Rastafarian Jamaican who just wants to lay back and smoke a fat blunt. Again that's just a broad generalization.

---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 03:10 PM ----------

I too have an issue with the stereotypes in wow races and how blizzard in the game perpetuates it so constantly. As you said, blood elves, well in lore (like the manga comic the sunwell series) come off as quite strong and determined a race, where as in the game they come off as raging queens. goblins too fall under this. How many stories in wow can you tell me where a goblin isn't a money grabbing double dealer whos only interest is making gold? It almost feels like the way family guy stereotypes jewish people.

I think though lately, the thing thats pissed me off the most is that of orcs. Before all this crap in the story now, there was this interesting dynamic of orcs in the horde, some were meat headed, some where stout and honor bound, some were intent of being better then they once were, and trying to overcome the past, well others simply ignored the warnings. you could actually look at the scen between saurfang and garrosh and see, yeah, there are different types of orcs in this lore, they are not all meat headed warmongering savages, some actually have honor and think for themselves.

But with the current story, it seems blizzard has forced all orcs into one camp, campa'da'garrosh, where they all side with Garrosh despite the rest of the horde now hating them. Where the hell is the split dynamic? why is Thrall the only orc right now in the story whos standing against Garrosh and the kor'kron? Its just such a disappointing turn of events in the lore.

Totally agree with you, after playing WC2-3 and reading Rise of the Horde. Its amazing how little of the original orc culture transferred over to the MMO. I mean I know they had to water down the races for the mass market but its ridiculous just how different they where before WoW.

[Trassk]

I'd definitely agree you need more exemplars of the Warcraft 3 post-corruption type of Orcs - Orcs that show the independent spirit, personal honor, and even the non-Shamanic spiritual side of Orcish culture. In addition to Thrall (who was always a bit of an outsider given his heritage and upbringing in the human interment camps) you need Orcs like Saurfang, Eitrigg, Gorgonna, and perhaps Overlord Agmar to stand as a defining opposite to the "Orcs as the One True Race" direction Garrosh seems to be taking in the storyline. It's my hope that Thrall's quest to find other Orcs in Orgrimmar to stand against Garrosh leads to this eventuality, and that it doesn't come too late in the expansions storyline to be a highlight.

thats why big argument in all thats happening. I mean think about whats happening storywise. We are not just set to take down Garrosh now, if it was just the entire horde and alliance against Garrosh on his own, that would be one thing (and probably not that interesting a story). But by having so many orcs siding with Garrosh, who we will be fighting, and killing, it will cut that bad element out of the horde when the horde recovers from this..

but what about the orcs themselves. They are a race, infact they are the main body of the horde itself, have been since warcraft began. If you have us, the player, siding with vol'jins rebellion and varian's army in taking down Garrosh and those that follow him, if all orcs side with garrosh, then all orcs in the horde would be killed off.

As this isn't in any sense a reasonable thought to consider, the orcs are a race in the horde, and the orcs need a story to continue after Garrosh's fall. The story needs a reason, right now, why the orcs continue after we defeat Garrosh and those following him. You can't just say in 5.3 'all orcs side with Garrosh' and in 5.4 aftermath say 'all orcs now side with the rebellion', it doesn't make sense, it isn't good storytelling if you just throw that at us in the 11th hour.

---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 08:15 PM ----------

Totally agree with you, after playing WC2-3 and reading Rise of the Horde. Its amazing how little of the original orc culture transferred over to the MMO. I mean I know they had to water down the races for the mass market but its ridiculous just how different they where before WoW.

well thats just it isn't it, in the orcs, you have always had your split dynamic of how orcs are. They even categorize orcs into roleplay types on wowwiki, you have the doomhammer types, the thrall types, the gul'dan types, the garrosh/grom types. They are the most diverse race in the horde in terms of there persona, but blizzard in the current story has lumped them all into one catagory.
At lease when you read rise of the horde, you can see the different kinds of orcs, gul'dan, grom, doomhammer, blackhand, durotar and draka.

[Florena]

You mean the novels and expanded materials show a deeper picture of lore than the game? No.... =P

[Trassk]

You mean the novels and expanded materials show a deeper picture of lore than the game? No.... =P

you know its a matter of fact.

the devs don't seem capable of developing the story to the same standard as the writers for the novels can, and it managed to tell a story.

Put it this way. Wow is capable of making big, expansive storytelling, but when it comes to fine details, it doesn't do as well. I've always blamed the lack of depth in characters in wow due to it being a player avatar centered game, so the books cover what the game can't and it doesn't include any of this 'some random hero did this' crap.

[Honeyprime]

Ahoy! I'm Raaaaiding!

LMAO!

Okay, I totally busted out laughing reading this and hearing Budd's voice in my head while doing so. I couldn't help myself.

[Florena]

you know its a matter of fact.

the devs don't seem capable of developing the story to the same standard as the writers for the novels can, and it managed to tell a story.

Put it this way. Wow is capable of making big, expansive storytelling, but when it comes to fine details, it doesn't do as well. I've always blamed the lack of depth in characters in wow due to it being a player avatar centered game, so the books cover what the game can't and it doesn't include any of this 'some random hero did this' crap.

Oh I'm well aware, my post was sarcastic. I think the source of this can largely be attributed to something Kosak has said in some recent tweets. Story prsented in game needs gameplay for it. This is for example why they've updated the blood elf story but not worgen or draenei. While WoW does have some good stories in game, it's limited by game mechanics.

I don't think it's so much because we see the story form our character's point of view, but because the two mediums are vastly different. In a novel, you can get into a character's head through the narrative in a way you just can't in a movie or video game. As a video game, gameplay comes before story. It's why there's so many portals everywhere that we can use freely but npcs can only use them when convenient for the story, why we have these inexplicable hearthstones, why we can resurrect freely but lore characters can't. While blizzard does put an effort into making good stories in game, the stories serve the gameplay. In novels, it's just a story without such constraints. I think that is the core issue rather than the story in game being told from our perspective. They simply don't have room in game to get in those intricate details, to show people the full diversity of viewpoints within different races, etc. It's just a result of story being bent to fit gameplay, and not showing story in game that doesn't have gameplay to go with it.

[Aucald]

I've always seen the role of the books for WoW as providing either parallel lore (storylines that deepen and enrich the world of the game without necessarily directly touching on core story arcs either already told or in the process of being told) or handling direct storylines too complex or unwieldy for the game engine itself. No one would want to be subjected to an hour-long cinematic that detailed the events of "The Shattering" directly (although I personally would love to see it, I think most would either watch it outside of normal gameplay or skip it entirely to get into the new expansion's questing), not to mention the insane cost of such an undertaking to Blizzard itself in terms of design time and personnel required.

For lack of a better phrase - the outsourcing of complex storylines to the books, manga, and supplemental media provides a way to keep the world of game lush and enriched without bogging the actual gameplay part of it down with too much story, dialogue, and interruptions to the immersion of action. WoW has a good balance of story vs. gameplay as-is, with the occasional error on either side such as too much story interruption like in Uldum or too little like most of TBC's raiding content (these would be my personal examples, based on my experience).

[Trassk]

Your right Aucald, and the fact rests with it that whatever people assume about the books and comics not being important.. fact of the matter is, they are.

I mean, you could say they don't matter because you don't need the books, comics and short stories to see the game and whats happening in it. And this is true, you don't. But you are never going to know the full story of characters and there development unless you take the time to read these other forms of media. The game is simply warcraft at its most basic level, if you don't give a crap about story and just want gameplay, then the way wow works is it won't force the lore on you if you don't really care (well, except repeatedly hearing saurfangs speech when you wiped on deathbringer boss), and you can get on with it.

But for those who do appreciate the story and take the time to read the books, shorts and comics, they will have a much more enriched understanding of the story, something the game can't provide. See I knew the depth of Jaina's sorrow with theramore, not because of what was ingame, but because it was written so in the novel. I honestly was near to tears seeing how broken she had become, really felt like the Jaina I knew was dead here.

But, the game in his scenario, it did nothing for me in establishing the story for this important event, and this is just how I view the game now. Infact, I could still be a warcraft fan and ignore the game in favour of the books and comics, if it wasn't for getting to see the ending of boss fights and having that satisfaction in doing it.

[Haven]

You know that wrathion's dragon form is smaller then average gnome ?

The more horrific it will be. He's gonna start with kneecaps, slowly advancing to the face...

[Shefu]

Vol'jin wants to kill him because of the attempted murder on him.
Sylvannas wants to kill him because she got dicked around and called a bitch.
Lor'themar wants to kill him because of the events in 5.1
Baine doesn't have a reason but he supports Vol'jin and Lor'themar.

Thrall might not want to kill him, but he would put him in a prison somewhere for life.
Great Grandmother is probably ashamed of her nephews actions.

In the meanwhile, Algalon is still eager to destroy everyone on Azeroth in Ulduar.

[Treesus]

In Before 2h axe throw from no where to sever garrosh's connection to sha.

[msmone123]

Thrall of coarse... cmon!

[bohapjut]

In the meanwhile, Algalon is still eager to destroy everyone on Azeroth in Ulduar.

No he changed his mind after seeing the fight u put up in Ulduar

[Invictus9001]

King Varian will have the last blow.

Vol'jin already promised an arrow through Garrosh's black heart. Tell Varian to get out of the way or he'll be taken by the same arrow meant for Garrosh.

On second thought, tell Varian to jump in front of it. Being rid of both Garrosh and Varian with one arrow would make me need a cleanup-towel of joy.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Vol'jin already promised an arrow through Garrosh's black heart. Tell Varian to get out of the way or he'll be taken by the same arrow meant for Garrosh.

On second thought, tell Varian to jump in front of it. Being rid of both Garrosh and Varian with one arrow would make me need a cleanup-towel of joy.

I'm not sure why you think Vol'Jin could one shot Varian =p

[Zoma]

I'm not sure why you think Vol'Jin could one shot Varian =p

Cinematic shots are OP.

[Dreknar20]

Oh I'm well aware, my post was sarcastic. I think the source of this can largely be attributed to something Kosak has said in some recent tweets. Story prsented in game needs gameplay for it. This is for example why they've updated the blood elf story but not worgen or draenei. While WoW does have some good stories in game, it's limited by game mechanics. .

not doubt Metzen and the lore team have come up with plenty of story-lines but were unable to carry them out due to lack of gameplay that would come out of them