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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    Hello, I posted this bullet point here with the interest of knowing how much time people spend on the game and particularly on raiding. I would like to hear others oppinions because, for a long time, I heard people say that high end raiders spends several hours a day during progression and then just slowed down during farm. Now, I never thought it was something in over 10 hours a day frame. But 14 - 16 hours game sessions? Damn.
    Really? The race-to-world-first people generally do that much or more.

    I know there was a group during Cata that did 21 hour sessions with 3 hour naps and got right back to the next 21 hour session, constantly swapping people in as they needed to sleep. It was on the Race to World First video.

    If you want to be first, you need to raid. A LOT.
    Uses the same signature for over a year, just randomly gets infracted for it recently.
    Placeholder signature is placeholder and will hopefully make me finish my shit.
    Oh yeah, I'm a Druid and stuff.
    I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Velthy View Post
    Such a bad way to spend their lives.
    I raided 4 x 4 hour and i think i was way too much.
    Did you do that weekly? The people trying for the world or country first go crazy for 1 to 3 weeks then dial it way back. Once the race is over for them many go down to 1 or 2 days a week. So sure in the start they go bananas but after 2 months are up most ppl have put in more hours in the raid instance.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  3. #223
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    My stance on those get a life posts - you're pretty wrong on this one.
    Cutting-edge world class guilds actually put LESS time to raiding than your average guild when we take a look over whole patch duration.
    Their raiding is highly concentrated at the beginning, when they are progressing fast, possibly resulting in a world first, but then - almost no raiding, except for farming gear, alt runs etc. Casual playing after this hardcore progression period.
    Then we take an average heroic-raiding guild that does clear whole heroic mode while it's current (say 6 months - 25 resets). They raid say 4 days a week 4 hours each - 16 hours a week times 25 = four hundred (400) hours put into progression.
    World class guild puts 15 hours a day times 14 days (I don't count Ra'den as 15 hr/day due to limited attempts) = this gives 210 hours of raiding. This is HALF of the amount of your average heroic-raiding guild. After those 2 weeks of intense progession they are essentially free to do what they like, or doing alt runs to gear their characters in BIS for next tier - but in no way this intensive playing.

    In the end this world class guild player has a lot more "life" than standard HC raider, which devotes to progression during whole patch, or at least significant portion of it.
    And on top of this all - no one forces them to play 15 hours a day. They chose to join such guild, this isn't chinese goldfarmer sweatshop.

  4. #224
    High Overlord Voldur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    To really think they raid less than noob guilds is naïve at best. They still keep raiding after the World first to gear up their mains, do pvp, play the ah, farm, gear alts or fly with their uber drakes in sw for e-peen. Just to be recruited on one of those guilds you need to have a vast experience playing Wow so i find hard to believe that they only play hardcore for a couple weeks and then casual.

    Its their lives, if they want to spend it playing that much its their decision, but i cant believe the people defending them saying they actually play less than a noob.

  5. #225
    I'm not one of those people who thinks hardcore raiders need to "get a life" or anything like that. I know what it's like to be passionate about something and spend (arguably) excessive amounts of time on it. But I also think the people suggesting that 16 hour/day raiding for 2+ weeks is behavior that an average person could get away with need a reality check, lol.

  6. #226
    The bigger issue to me is how worked up so many get about the amount of time spent by strangers playing a game. We should all enjoy whatever we do as much as we can and let others do the same. Now if the thing you really enjoy doing is trying to crap all over how somebody else spends their time then I guess go crazy and keep worrying about what they do.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Not counting multiple accounts... But still with only one alt, they can't clear ToT wihtin 4 hours total per week. And didn't I read about real money runs a few posts again? So please, stop using the phrase "in the end they raid less".
    I have never said that they raid less, as a matter of fact this is what I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ater View Post
    Sure we are talking about guys and girls that love the game and play more then most other players
    I just said that for the people claiming that they are required to have 4-6 fully hc gear alts, they are probably wrong.
    What to do if you find out that your GM is playing his ally alt? GANK HIM!

  8. #228
    Obviously raiding and pushing for world firsts isn't something everyone can do. Those of us who enjoy the competition, camaraderie, challenge of the new bosses, and are able to make the timing of IRL stuff work out have a blast. Most of us have flexible scheduling at work, or go to school. When we recruit someone new, usually one of the first questions that we ask is if they're able to make raid times that first week. Once the weekend has come and gone when a new tier arrives, we know people are back to work/school, and schedule raid times accordingly. Our raiding time is entirely front loaded, and while we do have some alt raids once progression is over, it's a much more laid back and relaxed atmosphere and raiding schedule.

    The reason it takes us a decent amount of time to clear the instance the first week or so involves a few different variables:
    -Enrage timers exist, and they're usually brutal. We are extremely under geared, and have to find ways to squeeze out every bit of dps while perfecting the mechanics of the fight. Durumu/Animus are good examples. Durumu you had to have nearly perfect Life Drain management, fast beam phases so the dps could have time to tunnel the boss before the next Ice Walls, do as much damage as possible during the dance, and so on. On Animus, we knew how much time we had to kill him before he hit max anima, and basically required a perfect pull. If a dps died, and wasn't instantly ressed/buffed, you were behind on damage.

    -There aren't any videos/guides for us to consult. PTR definitely helps, but only to a point. For instance, Dark Animus. Even after PTR testing we were still quite confused about what to do, and the best option regarding anima usage. For every fight, we have to find the optimal way to approach it. Look at the kill vids between Method/BL, and you'll see a LOT of similarities regarding positioning/cooldowns/etc.

    -Fights can be buggy/overtuned. Twin Consorts is a great example here. Both Method and Blood Legion spent about three days on this boss, despite the fact that the health values were way too high, and even on a perfect pull, there wasn't much of a chance of killing it. Both guilds had the mechanics down, as evidenced by quickly killing it once the hotfix went through. Animus would also cast his abilities at seemingly random times before his hotfix went in as well. His initial Interrupting Jolt also did just about as much damage as most people had total health. Without a cooldown, even if you were full health, you were dying unless you hit the threshold of needed hp. It was so sketchy for a few of our raiders that we honestly considered having them use a tank flask.

    So yes, it takes us awhile to do that initial clear. But once that's over, everyone knows the fights inside and out, and the resulting weeks are usually very fast clears.

    TL;DR - Hardcore progression raiding is not for everyone. It requires a lot of IRL flexibility, which we are fortunate to have.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Solmyr13 View Post
    Ironically they'll spend LESS time raiding a tier than anyone else. Now that it's on farm they can blitz through that raid in half the time as anyone else for the remainder of the expansion. Don't forget the reason you try weird strats/combo's/anything is because they're UNDERGEARED to do the fight. So they have to have that tank change out that one glyph to gain 713 more dps because in conjunction with X Y Z and then A B C they can cause each player blah blah blah. You get it. So once they have it on farm, all they're doing is speeding the clears up EVERY WEEK because they have the mechanics down flawlessly.
    This is simply wrong.
    When they are finished with main in those two weeks, they are running at the very least one altraid, most likely more, so the time spent in the instance is doubled or tripled just by doing those.
    They raid on PTRs/betas, dunno why that shouldnt count.
    Regular guilds raid 3-4 hours 3 times a week.

    Now to some basic math.
    As posted here, they raided (as in raided, not counting breaks) 12 hours a day for 2 weeks, thats 168 hours, regular guilds raid 10-12 hours a week, thats at least 14 weeks before those guilds "catch up" to only those two weeks of hardcore playing.
    In those 12 weeks that normal guilds are "catching up with playtime", the HC guilds still raid, with mains, with alts and possibly with another set of alts. I dunno how fast they can clear the place, lets say 3 hours, and lets even assume their altraids are as quick as mainraids (they arent first couple of weeks), so that would be 6 hours a week, minimum. thats another extra 70+ hours to "catch up", or in other words, 6 weeks, after that its extra 3 weeks, then give or take extra 2 weeks.

    So you see, for regular guild to catch up with playtime, they would need to raid about 6 months.

    Now unless its the end of the expansion, new raiding tier is already live (which means the "lowbies" would never catch up to them) or at the very least its on the PTR already and HC guilds are doing what they do - storm PTRs and raid extra hours there.

    And this was with pretty generous benefit of the doubt to the HC guilds. they are likely running more than 1 alt raid, so the catch up would be much longer than 6 months.

  10. #230
    I think the point is more broadly that these guilds don't raid 12 hours a day the entire time. Sure, they probably spend more time raiding on the whole than a random 12 hour a week guild, or at least a similar amount over a whole tier and a lot more at first. But once the first couple of weeks of a tier are done, they raid the same or less. They'll mostly clear their farm on Tuesday or Wednesday and be done for the week, give or take an alt raid. So it's a heavy time investment initially and then a moderate to small time investment until the next tier comes out.

    And as I'm sure we all realise, more time raiding isn't the same thing as more time playing the game. I'm a hardcore raider and I play a lot, and there's people I know in game who play as much/more than me and are 4/12 in normal mode right now. They just don't spend all their time in game raiding. It's just about how you spend your leisure time.

  11. #231
    Method seems pretty hardcore.

  12. #232
    well... I dont get why some people are like: "oh they raid that much, haha get a life, what a waste of time" but, here you are, talking about them, flaming/cheering for them since heroic ToT opened... I think you are actually wasting more time complaining on forums, cause nobody gives a damn(well, i do now) while they are wasting their time on something they actually want to do, on something many people watch and on something they are good at and have fun while doing it..

    or what do you think when you see pro athlete in tv? its something like: "oh, he sucks.. he train for few hours EVERY day while there is only like 3-4 prestigious races per year and one olympic games once per 4 years.. what a waste of time!" ?? cause I dont think so..

    you all should just accept that they are using a lot of their free time into something they are good at and are achieving something(and dont tell me getting world first, second, third, fourth and so on, in wow is no achiev at all and its waste of time and nobody gives a damn.. there is 256 pages long thread about heroic tot progression which could easily be 350+ if didnt lock - full of flame and congratulations and everything related to hc tot progress... and a few other topics about it.. )
    so give them props and move on...

  13. #233
    What I want to know is--

    When do they have the time to sleep/shower/work?

    How does that work?

    Edit: well I actually read the thread after posting and can see that they would get vacation time. But man, that seems so exhausting.

    I would love to see a documentary that included the dramas of playing that much. Sleep deprived and stressed people would make for an excellent watch. I saw race to world first, but I feel it could have been more raw.

    Yes I get that after they get to the end they don't play as much, but it's the time they do that intrigues me.
    Last edited by Vishtara; 2013-04-26 at 07:25 AM.

  14. #234
    There's always time before/after raids to shower/sleep/etc.

    For me, I'm able to work during breaks and before/after the raids. Not nearly as efficient as I am outside of progression, but the work still gets done.

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