Breaking T15 4p set with heroic 541 gear?

[senturion]

To those doing Heroic ToT now.. Are you facing this dilemma? We had to DE a heroic thunderforged shoulders of centripetal destruction last week because noone wanted to break 4p. And suspect more of these loot will get DE since nobody knows when to breakup their 4p T15. My off piece is my leggings and when officer offered me the shoulders at half GP I couldn't decide whether it was a dps upgrade although the stat values were amazing. For me to take jikun leggings and swop my 522 tier shoulders away for the 541 off piece is a risky gamble because who knows if leggings will drop and maybe I will have to wait 2-3 weeks before I can complete the switch

So now officers are thinking of ways to encourage people to take these armor off pieces since everyone is hording EP for heroic set pieces and noone wants armor off pieces.

[meteo]

If i manage to complete full heroic off pieces before I can get my hands on the required heroic tokens (which looks quite possible), I will be using those instead. The 4pc isn't that good (better in 25 than in 10man) and there is a big difference between those items. Far more strength (522 vs 535/541) and far better secondary stats.

But I am blessed with a loot council which means that I don't have to worry about not getting a crucial item when collecting all the needed items.

[senturion]

We have loot council too but I think it's more unfair than fair. We give those with set pieces priority over future set pieces to allow them to complete sets. This means that everyone accumulates EP so that they can be first to get a tier drop, which means they get priority over future set drops. As can imagine, nobody willing to take Heroic off pieces which get DE or assigned to off spec for free

[Deleted]

If i manage to complete full heroic off pieces before I can get my hands on the required heroic tokens (which looks quite possible), I will be using those instead. The 4pc isn't that good (better in 25 than in 10man) and there is a big difference between those items. Far more strength (522 vs 535/541) and far better secondary stats.

But I am blessed with a loot council which means that I don't have to worry about not getting a crucial item when collecting all the needed items.

why is the 4pc better in 25 ?? its just not true . .

[meteo]

why is the 4pc better in 25 ?? its just not true . .

Because you can desync Banner and recklessness and get far more out of it?

[Deleted]

If i manage to complete full heroic off pieces before I can get my hands on the required heroic tokens (which looks quite possible), I will be using those instead. The 4pc isn't that good (better in 25 than in 10man) and there is a big difference between those items. Far more strength (522 vs 535/541) and far better secondary stats.

But I am blessed with a loot council which means that I don't have to worry about not getting a crucial item when collecting all the needed items.

Wasnt that just an early assumption that turned out to be wrong ?
I remember reading T15 4set is (see klausistklaus's explanation) dps increase over the setup you describe ?

Think it was darkfriend who posted it, but cant find the thread, so unsure

[Deleted]

It's far more likely that you'll acquire heroic thunderforged pieces in 25m (roughly 2.5 times) but that's about it. Maybe he was thinking that every skull banner gives him the bonus, i don't know.

Actually i can't believe you sharded, 4 piece is slightly better on the long run but some people can/should take the off pieces first to help the rest of the raid get their set bonus considerable faster. And a decent loot distribution system shouldn't punish you for being that guy.

Using the simcraft BiS premades for T15H SMF 2 piece nets you ~ 5.800 dps (1.800 dps 2 piece & 4.000 dps 4 piece) for both boni when you execute everything perfectly = with less gear it's impact is obviously smaller.

That list uses Carapace of the Core (Ra-Den) as offpiece by the way, not the pants (there's little to no reason to exclude Ra-Den loot if you work with Lei Shen heroic pieces). If we exchange all set pieces (assuming that all secondary stats are equally useful which they aren't but for a simple comparison this will have to do it) for heroic thunderforged stuff you gain ~ 100 strength + 100 secondary stats on gloves, ~ 100 strength + 0 secondary stats on shoulder, +360 strength & -320 secondary stats on helmet and finally -100 strength + 500 secondary stats on pants. A total of +460 strength and 280 secondary stats or only a loss of 2.700 dps (1.5% difference) compared to two set boni. But keep in mind that this is assuming that you'd exchange heroic tokens for heroic thunderforged stuff and not regular token for heroic thunderforged stuff in which case the difference is even smaller.

[Kalmah]

Because you can desync Banner and recklessness and get far more out of it?

But you want to sync them. If anything, 4pc is worse on 25man because if there's 2 dps warriors one HAS to desync.

[Twansition]

But you want to sync them. If anything, 4pc is worse on 25man because if there's 2 dps warriors one HAS to desync.

I'm leaning towards this. In 10 man, you likely only have one warrior. He can stack his reck and banner at will, no raid DPS loss.

25 man on the other hand, what happens when you have 3 warriors? They either all blow them at the start, gaining personal DPS, but the raid loses 20 seconds of Skull Banner. You can stagger them out, but 2 of the warriors take a bit personal DPS hit.

[Roseby]

I banner third in my raid. My banner lines up with my second CS. There is the distinct possibility that w/ RNG it is a DPS gain.

Too many people sim purely Patchwerk and do not realize the 4 piece for what it is - burst.

When you line up Reck + T15 4PC Banner and Bladestorm for example, you have an extra 35 percent crit within your Bladestorm.

Your 350k Opener can suddenly reach 500k - T15 4PC.

It is factual that the T15 4PC is a DPS increase of a few thousand on a purely Patchwerk fight, but it is simply invaluable that we can now have competitive burst, and flat out godly AoE w/ BS thanks to it.

I was of the mindset that 2 PC W/ H TF Off pieces was the way to go initially, but I was misinformed and was wrong in my analysis.

Go for the 4 PC w/ off piece Shoulders from Tortos or Head from Dark Animus.
If you get to Ra-Den, your off piece will be chest.

TL;DR - Go for 4 PC. Amazing burst capabilities for single target and even moreso for AoE. (Also easier to get. H TF more RNG).

[senturion]

Yes, that's the problem. Everyone wants to hold out for heroic 4pc tier and the H TF armor off pieces are getting sharded