Blizzard forgot Alliance is more than Humans.

[Verdugo]

No he did not forget, he's just biased real hard.

This just in, painfull truth is now considered bias.

[Deleted]

Oops, I actually read the name wrong. Just saw 'Hellscream' and immediately equated it to Garrosh--not used to Grom being a part of the discussion.

That is a little more interesting but still largely irrelevant. ~ Humans are by far their greatest adversary. I mean for crying out loud the Horde nearly crushed the Night Elves and almost killed Tyrande in battle because they were so frigging predictable. It took the Worgen and Varian to save them from complete annihilation. xD

And you wonder why we complain? After, in Warcraft 3 we were those ferocious elves that Grom barely beat using demon blood now we need a random human to save the day.

And yes, I know, the usual argument after this is "but you had Cenarius". Did we have Cenarius all across the night elf campaign when we stormed through orc, human and undead forces alike like a knife through butter with a small force?

Also, Horde had magnataurs in that battle by the way, so this is not just "the Horde".

Night Elves lost their status along with their immortality really. This has made them uncertain and less capable.

Humans more than anyone in the Alliance are the stewards of the world and by and large have been since their formation of the Alliance of Lordaeron. That said all the races play critical roles but it's very evident they revolve heavily around the strength and guidance of Stormwind much like the races of the Horde revolve around the orcs--although that is in question now due to Garrosh's actions.

I don't see anything wrong with an emphasis on the two major races for various reasons. Although the instance with Tyrande did somewhat bother me as it did seem cheap and just outright horrible writing. Granted she could be emotionally compromised from her battle in Ashenvale. Blizzard does a poor job of filling gaps unless they release a few novels to do just that.

what? lol. So with losing their immortality they also became less capable? Ok, then the forsaken should be the least capable of the races, I mean, they lost their lives and parts of their flesh on their bodies, so they should be the dumbest and just cannon fodder. Wait... is my argument stupid? Well, yours isn't better either.

The Alliance of Lordaeron is gone. How many times do you want people to say this? When humans were mostly leaderless, there was a vacuum of power and it was filled by other races. One of those races are the night elves. In the end, it's the night elves that helped introduce the draenei into the Alliance and it's the night elves that fully introduced the worgen too, even though for them Varian was AGAINST it.

There is a problem with putting an emphasis on two races because of several reasons:
-it makes the people who love the other races feel like their race is worthless and not relevant to the plot
-if you need to lower the power of other races to make two dominant races, it makes the people who loved those races feel like their races got turned to shit (night elves, for forsaken they still get some strong power in their part of the world even if Garrosh comes to visit, though they suffer from this a bit too)
-if you chose two boring races, you risk of just making everyone feel the entire lore is boring (humans and orcs... how original...)

You also said that the humans and orcs are the most versatile... no, they're not, this is the deal, Blizzard writes the story, so they chose to make them that way. Yet, they didn't copy/paste them from other franchises (good honorable orcs in WoW are an example of moving away from the usual orcs) so why should everything else be copy/pasted?

Yes BUT they're no longer immune to the ravages of age and therefore their eternal army is no more.

So wisdom, skill, thousands of years worth are lost with no real adequate replacement for that. It's a huge shift for them. Not to mention the discomfort/uncertainty it creates among them to begin with.

You do realize the night elves who were old didn't drop dead the moment their immorality was lost, do you? I mean, Malfurion is 13k years old, and Tyrande what, 11k or something? Shandris even is 10k years old.

Even now, night elves will live at least about the same as high elves, so 700-900 years, so besides draenei they're one of the most long-lived races alongside blood elves.

So wisdom, skill and all that are not lost. Plus, they're not dumb enough not to know how to train new ones.

I actually had same impression when i played through WC3. Night Elves had no enemies at the moment Hellscream went on his mission to gather lumber. They strightly went into attacking them, instead of investigating stuff. I am pretty sure they would have made some kind of compromise, if they wouldn't immediately turn mad becuase someone broke a tree branch.
Orcs are respectful race, they befriended with races which did shown willingness to communicate, looks at Trolls and Taurens.

Another thing that cought my eye was the fact that Night Elves always relied on allies. The War of Shifting Sands was successful becuase Dragons intervened to fight Silithus only.

And Tyranse is reckless leader. She killed her own people to free Illidian, despite the multiple warnings. I actually side more with Maiev Shadowsong, since she seems to be more understandbale.

I also found it funny how people stand up for Night Elves that they protect their sacred forrest, when Horde needs lumber, and only lumber. But nobody seems to remember/ support Amani when they had same- or even more bigger issue. They also were protecting thier sacred lands, nobody was allowed to even get near to Sunwell. And yet Elves whined so much that Alliance had to make a campaign againt Trolls, to take thier land from them turn it to ponyland, and give elves again powers they should stay away from. They could go and search for other land, but noooo they wanted troll land, when they were shown that they're not welcome and meant to get lost.

But I guess it all narows to "But Elves are good and pretty, and Trolls are evil and ugly".

This is a fair point, though rememeber the first party the night elves came in contact with were Grom's orcs. Now, considering Grom didn't listen to Thrall to not attack the humans when Thrall had his base like 2 feet from him, do you think he would have sat and chat now with night elves? I think he'd have thought "ha, weak blue high elves, talking is for the weak!" and attacked. Now, if Thrall would have led the expedition into Ashenvale then I agree, a compromise could have been made. Remember in the end it was first Thrall who made friends with tauren and trolls.

In terms of Maiev, I slightly agree, though in the aspect of the situation think a bit. Illidan is one with good experience against the Legion. Tyrande is the leader of the night elves. Yet when she asked for Illidan, the wardens attacked... hold on... she's the leader and it's time of war, she can't waste time with rebel factions that don't listen to reason. This is the same as with orcs. Remember the fight between Garrosh and Cairne? What was it? It was a mag'okra, a sacred ritual inside the Horde that meant to determine which side is right in an argument. And once that's settled, the argument is finished in favor of the winner and never brought back. This is why Baine never brought back the orcs attacking Hamuul, because the argument was done. Why is it done like this? Because a rebel faction that goes against the wishes of the leader just splinters the faction as a whole and makes them weak. And in the face of the Burning Legion Tyrande couldn't have that happening. Remember Hyjal? Staghelm switched sides and joined the Firelord. Yet, despite Thrall being the one who saw how the Firelord would engulf the world, his capital first... it wasn't Thrall on the Molten Front going to fight Staghelm... (Thrall hyjacked the whole regrowth of Nordrassil, but let's ignore that), it was Malfurion! And why was Malfurion there? Because he was the night elf leader, and Staghelm was the leader of a rebel faction and so he had to be put down by the night elves since it made them look weak.

Do you understand? Even Malfurion, who is so peace bent and all, did the same thing Tyrande did with the wardens. He showed anyone staying against him that he is right. You might not realize, but in terms of leadership, night elves are more like orcs then humans. It is said that all races of the Alliance are honorable and all, lol, no, night elves are not honorable. They fight using guerilla tactics, shoot you in the back when you least expect it etc. Isn't a line of the night elf archer "shot through the heart, and I'm to blame"? It is. The night elves don't care about honor, they care about winning.

And Horde doesn't need lumber and only lumber. Otherwise they wouldn't have cut the wood and left it to rot. the Warsong Clan wanted to fight, not lumber.
And I agreed with the trolls's plight in BC since then they had a claim to their land. In Cataclysm though they wanted to start from there and reconquer the world, so that wasn't acceptable. But in BC Zul'jin was right, it was their land and the Horde had abandoned them. On the other hand, trolls are Horde, so it was you Hordies who should have complained about this first.

[Spichora]

There is one real big problem with the alliance. Humans Run around doing shit while other races' leaders mostly do nothing at all, and when they are showed, its to be like: "Varian, im your bitch, use all my armies, forever yours. You were right, peace out"

Varian steals all the spotlight from everyone. Horde leaders in comparison are all accounted for in this expansion with appearances in either books or cutscenes.
Here is a small comparison:
Humans
-Varian: Every scenario has him in it, every alliance cutscene deals with him.
-Jaina: A major focus during this expansion is on her. No problem tough, she deserves it.
-Anduin: Same as his father mostly.

Yes I agree with you here. It is very irritating to see Humans all around Alliance. Yes Blizzard stated that its their mistake to make Humans that popular and they try to fix them. But I kinda like Varian and Jaina. Anduin has lot to show yet, imo his better than his father.
Night elves

-Tyrande- Used as a support character for varian in a scenario in MoP, being completely out of character. Didn't do much else. Look up and you will see what she pretty much said.
-Malfurion- AFK ATM

Night Elves are my pain. They were suppose to be leaders of Alliance not Humans. Night elves are ancient race who fought Burning Legion alone on Azeroth and managed to win. Later on they fought Burning Legion + Humans and Orcs (until they united against Legion). Where is Tempered and Fearless Tyrande ? She became like Home sitting mother for night elves, Passive priest, who can barely handle bunch of orcs and 8 Magnataurs in Ashenvale? Come on, Night elves are more that they are shown now ! Humans are just start up whelps compared to Night Elves.

Furion was always that passive, I dont like that character, wish Maiev had dealt with him. Prefer Illidan to be Tyrandes mate then that Sleep Lover maggot. What he has done to Night elven Society? Nothing, he even didnt killed Illidan because he was Mals brother so why not cage him for 10 000 years? good.

Gnomes
-What gnomes? Who was their leader? Lor'themar mark 2? Not heard from at all.

This guy only appears in starting zone. His character is quite interesting would like to see him in-game too. What about we dedicate one patch Gnomes ?

Worgen
-Genn Greymane. Played a minor role in his starting zone. After that everything went to town and his race became pets for night elves. AFK for the moment.

Agreed. Plus their King (Genn) is Located in Stormwind and his people are in NOWHERE ! Few wogens are seen in Felwood and Feralas, 1 worgen is in Barrens and thats all no other worgen is shown in game thats kinda sucks ! Horde has goblins everywhere and every time ! They played Big role in last two patches. They were suppose to be like Alliance Gnomes Quad that does tech things and operations but where are gnomes in Alliance? Oh, right they are reclaiming Gnomeregan for two patch already.

Dwarves
-Pretty much same as Tyrande.

These three clan could develop quite interesting story for Alliance. Three totally different views and traditions - their conflicts. Dwaves are pretty popular race but lorewise.... It was cheerful to see Moira in action now but why only one clan?

Draenei
-Velen: He is a prophet. Pretty much nothing else.

No comment here. Sometimes I think they are Neutral Faction like Pandaren.

---------- Post added 2013-04-27 at 12:32 PM ----------

Snowraven

In terms of Maiev, I slightly agree, though in the aspect of the situation think a bit. Illidan is one with good experience against the Legion. Tyrande is the leader of the night elves. Yet when she asked for Illidan, the wardens attacked... hold on... she's the leader and it's time of war, she can't waste time with rebel factions that don't listen to reason.

Wardens were things that didnt bound to anyone. They had their duty. Maiev actions against Tyrande was justified. She freed her personal Prisoner and yes that is reckless to do so. Illidan was meant to be caged eternally but tyrande came and freed him? Then what was the point to cage him anyway? Just to make Maiev mad ? cool.
Yes I agree with you in aspect how Night Elves became passive, human servants.

[Pachycrocuta]

the 'core' of the Alliance

The 'core' of the Alliance was Lordaeron, hence being called the "Alliance of Lordaeron". The Alliance of Lordaeron consisted of Lordaeron, Dalaran, Gilneas, Alterac, Stromgarde, Quel'Thalas, Stormwind, Ironforge (includes the gnomes), Kul Tiras, and Aerie Peak. Gilneas, Alterac, Quel'Thalas, and I believe Stromgarde dropped either in the 2nd war or afterwards. With the death of Terenas and the slaughter of Lordaeron, the Alliance of Lordaeron crumbled. Stormwind joined forces with Ironforge, and brought in the Night Elves, to give us the starting basis of World of Warcraft.

The Alliance in WoW is called the "Grand Alliance", or "New Alliance", while the Alliance of Warcraft 1-3 is the "Alliance of Lordaeron", or "Old Alliance". And there's no story about IF, SW, and Darnassus coming together to forge a new alliance, because that would mean Blizzard would have to take away time from developing their precious Horde into something people like and enjoy, and putting that time in their "redheaded stepchild" to make them into something that isn't considered a joke.

[Mandible]

Worgen shouldn't complain, since they first of all have a leader and is also mentioned more than Galliwix who at most is posing as leader.

But besides that I agree they need more "council" events showing either all leaders, or having to go to each one to get information or help out. Silly to just depend on one or two when you clearly see all the horde leaders in action (well not Sylvanas so much atm, but the rest is up and about).

[Deleted]

Worgen shouldn't complain, since they first of all have a leader and is also mentioned more than Galliwix who at most is posing as leader.

But besides that I agree they need more "council" events showing either all leaders, or having to go to each one to get information or help out. Silly to just depend on one or two when you clearly see all the horde leaders in action (well not Sylvanas so much atm, but the rest is up and about).

Worgen got litteraly shafted with their story. After their starting zone they got ported to darnassus and had to play the Night elves' pets while the Forsaken player experienced the rest of the worgen story, modified so that the horde would win in a lame way.

Really big failiure on blizzards's part.

[Spichora]

Worgen shouldn't complain, since they first of all have a leader and is also mentioned more than Galliwix who at most is posing as leader.

But besides that I agree they need more "council" events showing either all leaders, or having to go to each one to get information or help out. Silly to just depend on one or two when you clearly see all the horde leaders in action (well not Sylvanas so much atm, but the rest is up and about).

-_- How can you even possibly compare Worgen to Goblin. Goblins are one of most popular race for Horde (NPC. not playable) They are shown everywhere in Pandaria. First squad that arrived in Pandaria there was goblin. 5.1 lots of goblins working on oil. 5.3 GOBLINS EVERYWHERE.

Its just their leader. He is money lover guy who doesnt care about politics if he has his pockets full with coins he will be happy and side whomever he suits comfortable. He will die now and Goblins will have respectable leader (hope so.).

[Mandible]

-_- How can you even possibly compare Worgen to Goblin. Goblins are one of most popular race for Horde (NPC. not playable) They are shown everywhere in Pandaria. First squad that arrived in Pandaria there was goblin. 5.1 lots of goblins working on oil. 5.3 GOBLINS EVERYWHERE.

Its just their leader. He is money lover guy who doesnt care about politics if he has his pockets full with coins he will be happy and side whomever he suits comfortable. He will die now and Goblins will have respectable leader (hope so.).

Oh, and here I thought we were only talking about Leaders, and not gereral representation . Also goblins won't ever get a leader in the same sense the rest does, since that is just the way their "system" works.

[Spichora]

Oh, and here I thought we were only talking about Leaders, and not gereral representation . Also goblins won't ever get a leader in the same sense the rest does, since that is just the way their "system" works.

No we were talking about Alliance in general. And then talk when to Races and its activities Gallywix is just like Gnome leader High Tinker Mekkatorque.
Horde shouldnt be complaining about leaders. They have all EPIC leaders. Garrosh is Epic in his evil ways, Vol'jin is old school baby ! Baine appeared to be interesting character like his father. Sylvnas is best leader for me in Horde. Lorthemar - respect to that guy how he leaders his people (he is just a soldier a warrior not politician).
Theres only passive Gallywix.

In alliance Varian does every job and other leader stay in their homes doing NOTHING.

[JudgePayne]

I agree that the alliance story lines could be a lot better but that being said historically the alliance have gotten a good amount of exposure.

Human's - Most talked about alliance faction so not much to say.

Dwarfs - From WC3 dwarf npcs have always played into the story line, hell I still remember the black rock quests to save moria and the tie in with rag. not to mention the fact that for a lot of Warcraft ironforge was the go to city for the alliance when the human storyline was muck.

Night elf's - These guys were their own faction in WC3 and have been prominent in the alliance story line since the beginning of WoW, just to name some, Illidan Bt boss Maiev also makes an appearance, Broll bearmantle is key in getting varian back , Staghelm is boss in fire lands and a big story line with malfurion's return also to combat rag.

Gnomes - I agree there lore needs serious work.

Worgen - Again agree please blizz let them retake their home, perhaps with reinforcements from Kul Tiras and bring in that faction to the alliance now that Jaina is with us again.

Draenei is were i have the most hope since I think if it is a big Burning Legion return final Expansion Velen will be the most used leader out of both horde and alliance.

[Vasti]

The other alliance races never take any initiative, never do anything untill Varian tells them to. Booring, Characterless, alliance races. Sad.

This!

What should happen imo to give the other races some lore:

Draenei:
I hope it will be the dranei (maybe because Velen saw it in his vision) who tell us that we should take the battle to the Burning Legion. Velen could even have seen how the Alliance and Horde stood united against the Legion and as such allows the Horde to use their spaceship/portal to help. This DESPITE Varian being against the idea (let Varian be the badguy for once...even if it is a trivial matter). The Draenei tell Varian that the Horde can't go it would be a suicide mission and refuses to be a part of it, shutting the portal/ship down. Varian reluctantly agrees and once faced with the full might of the Legion Velen can has is "I told you so"-moment. This would work just as well without Varian being the badguy....the other scenario's make better use of VArian as the douchebag. Could be the world event before the Burning Legion Expac.

Night Elves + Worgen:
Well I kinda think that NE have had quite some action in most of WoW. Cenarion Circle, World Tree and whatnot.
But Tyrande and Genn does deserve some actual shining moment. Seeing as how Tyrande got her claws clipped by Varian in MoP, we need to give her back her ferocity. I think it would be best if Genn tells her she has become human-like and forget her people's ways. Genn, being a Worgen shows her what ferocity can accomplish and Tyrande then later uses this refound ferocity to do something awesome for once that shows Varian that he does not know everything about war.

Gnomes:
Yeh I am not really fond of these guys, they had their moment in the retaking of Gnomeregan. Other than that the only thing I can see them do is build machines of war for the alliance.

Dwarves:
I think they were fine (only the part where Varian interferes with dwarven leadership was terrible!)
Maybe they should get into a combat situiation where the council shows that they can actually achieve more than a single leader could.

[Spichora]

Cenarion Circle, World Tree and whatnot.

This is more like Druid organisations not Night elven. Cenarion Circle consists of Night elves Taurens and all other druids. World Tree same, there were taurens in defense of World Tree.

[Florena]

The 'core' of the Alliance was Lordaeron, hence being called the "Alliance of Lordaeron". The Alliance of Lordaeron consisted of Lordaeron, Dalaran, Gilneas, Alterac, Stromgarde, Quel'Thalas, Stormwind, Ironforge (includes the gnomes), Kul Tiras, and Aerie Peak. Gilneas, Alterac, Quel'Thalas, and I believe Stromgarde dropped either in the 2nd war or afterwards. With the death of Terenas and the slaughter of Lordaeron, the Alliance of Lordaeron crumbled. Stormwind joined forces with Ironforge, and brought in the Night Elves, to give us the starting basis of World of Warcraft.

The Alliance in WoW is called the "Grand Alliance", or "New Alliance", while the Alliance of Warcraft 1-3 is the "Alliance of Lordaeron", or "Old Alliance". And there's no story about IF, SW, and Darnassus coming together to forge a new alliance, because that would mean Blizzard would have to take away time from developing their precious Horde into something people like and enjoy, and putting that time in their "redheaded stepchild" to make them into something that isn't considered a joke.

So you have no lore to back it up and have to explain that away as 'horde favoritism' when that didn't really even kick off until Cata? It was called the alliance of Lordaeron mostly because that's where the representatives met, and it was only natural to just start calling it the Alliance afterwards.

Stormwind and Ironforge also didn't 'join forces' after WC 3, they were already allies. And if anything, Ironforge was the center of the Alliance in Vanilla WoW. First city to have an auction house, had strong ties to humans and gnomes. Stormwind didn't even become a center of things until Cata, arguably Wrath. Which supports the idea of the Alliance simply evolving, if a new one had formed up as you say, it would likely have formed up around one of these kingdoms.

And I'm sorry, but having no lore to back up the idea that this is a freshly created alliance rather than the kingdoms that WEREN'T succeeding or destroyed just continuing what they were doing and blaming said lack of evidence on horde bias isn't going to cut it. Show me a canon example of it being called the "New Alliance" and I'll take a look at it. (rpg books are non canon if that's where this idea comes from.)

The Alliance before WC 3:

Lordaeron
Dalaran
Ironforge
Gnomeregan
Stormwind
Kul'tiras

If I'm not mistaken, Gilneas and Stromgarde had left before this point over issues with Alterac and internment camps for the orcs. Alterac itself is defunct.

After Warcraft 3:

Stormwind (didn't take part in war due to Onyxia but was still part of Alliance)
Ironforge
Gnomeregan (didn't take part in war due to Thermaplugg and troggs but still in Alliance)
Dalaran (in ruins but rebuilding and still at this point Alliance, didn't go neutral until Wrath.)
Kul'Tiras (So far as I know, Admiral Proudmoore certainly seemed to still be Alliance in Frozen Throne, correct me if I'm wrong and they left too.)
Theramore (Consisting of survivors from the Eastern Kingdoms, mostly from Lordaeron if I'm not mistaken. )
Darnassus (The only 'new' alliance member introduced in Vanilla WoW.)

That to me does not constitute a brand new organization, but rather an evolution of the same organization after Lordaeron was lost. Seems to me the name change of Aliance of Lordaeron to Grand alliance was simply symbolic of losing Lordaeron and and changing the name to something more generic. So in reality, it was more than just Stormwind and Ironforge that were remnants of the 'old' Alliance. They were just the only members to receive capital cities in Vanilla WoW. That coupled with the fact that there is no lore I know of that shows a 'new' Alliance being forged, leads me to believe the organization simply evolved after the fall of Lordaeron. Terenas and Lordaeron were central to it, but not so important the Alliance couldn't carry on without them.

[yetgdhfgh]

The sad fact of the matter is Humans seem to be the only ones to give a shit and take the initiative

Lets face it the gnomes only care about gnomeragen, The dwarves only care about digging for shinies and knowledge, The Nelfs would love to go back to being immortal beings left alone by the trivialities of the lesser races, The worgen just want there home gilneas back and if they ever got it back would prolly rebuild the wall and give a huge middle finger to the rest of the world, As for the Draneai i would prolly bet if Azeroth goes tits up when the demons come they will jump on there space ship and find another planet to ruin

[Spichora]

The sad fact of the matter is Humans seem to be the only ones to give a shit and take the initiative

Lets face it the gnomes only care about gnomeragen, The dwarves only care about digging for shinies and knowledge, The Nelfs would love to go back to being immortal beings left alone by the trivialities of the lesser races, The worgen just want there home gilneas back and if they ever got it back would prolly rebuild the wall and give a huge middle finger to the rest of the world, As for the Draneai i would prolly bet if Azeroth goes tits up when the demons come they will jump on there space ship and find another planet to ruin

So much Horde player logic.

Yes Gnomes MIGHT be passive. But lore-wise they are not good warriors they are engineers and mages. They help Alliance by building Machines.
Dwarves always help Humans in every single battle. Do not confuse Bronzebeards with Wildhammers and Iron Dwarves. Bronzebeards might like to hide in caves and dig sh*t but Wildhammers are Alliance-s only Air force since begining of Alliance. Iron dwaves Love power. If they feel they Have strong alliesthey become very dangerous force. Bronzebeards have closest relationship with humans.
Night Elves as I said they changed - became more passive and puppets for Humans. Yes they would like to be immortal again, but they understand the reason wy Malfurion did that. If they didnt like it what would stop them from killing Malfurion like Maiev intended? They dont like Orcs because they are violating their sacred places.
Worgen - you are strongly mistaken there. If You had read Wolfheart you wouldnt have said that.
Draenei - they made their decision. They could fly away when they repaired their ship but they stayed because they care about This world.

Lets be Honest this war was started Humans vs Orc and they just HATE eachoter like no other race does. They are most aggresive and initiative (agree with you) but its not good. They want to see other faction wiped out from Azeroth thats not right thing to do.

[Wyrt]

Draenei is were i have the most hope since I think if it is a big Burning Legion return final Expansion Velen will be the most used leader out of both horde and alliance.

Here's the problem with this. It basically means the draenei get nothing until the Legion show up and then once the Legion is done draenei go back to doing nothing. Also, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a human leading the Army of the Light so I doubt we'll actually see draenei at the forefront, maybe 2nd or 3rd race in terms of exposure.

Draenei:
I hope it will be the dranei (maybe because Velen saw it in his vision) who tell us that we should take the battle to the Burning Legion. Velen could even have seen how the Alliance and Horde stood united against the Legion and as such allows the Horde to use their spaceship/portal to help. This DESPITE Varian being against the idea (let Varian be the badguy for once...even if it is a trivial matter). The Draenei tell Varian that the Horde can't go it would be a suicide mission and refuses to be a part of it, shutting the portal/ship down. Varian reluctantly agrees and once faced with the full might of the Legion Velen can has is "I told you so"-moment. This would work just as well without Varian being the badguy....the other scenario's make better use of VArian as the douchebag. Could be the world event before the Burning Legion Expac.

Why would Varian be able to tell the draenei what they can or can't do with the Exodar?